Need input,
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Baghdad
Posts: 2,822
Originally Posted by Buffalo66 
I think he is unhappy with him.
Thinking of myself here, but I had to experience a lot of pain to learn the lessons I needed to learn.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
YOU don't sound very fulfilled and happy...
what is HE doing to make YOU feel secure, loved and special? why do you always have to suffer for his bad behavior?
it's the old saying, love is a 2 way street, it looks like you give and give and he takes and takes...then he gets resentful? what gives him the option of blaming YOU?
I agree that you are right, he's not happy with himself, but blaming you for his problems is immature and SELFISH.
what is HE doing to make YOU feel secure, loved and special? why do you always have to suffer for his bad behavior?
it's the old saying, love is a 2 way street, it looks like you give and give and he takes and takes...then he gets resentful? what gives him the option of blaming YOU?
I agree that you are right, he's not happy with himself, but blaming you for his problems is immature and SELFISH.
i've done my almost
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,934
Originally Posted by Buffalo66
Thanks everyone.
I spoke to the bar today. They do confirm that they will not serve him in support of his recovery. The bartender agreed that she feels awkward and uncomfortable w him being there. She does feel he is slipping, but he won't get the drink at their bar.
Obviously he is unhappy in the relationship. He says he doesn't like my treatment of him. My treatment of him was of respect and compassion, and support for a new, better life, one where he could build a relationship back up with his only child.
All of that goes minimized, and unacknowledged. The treatment that I think he does not like is that in which I treat him like an adult, and when I hold him accountable.
So, yeah. I guess you are right. He is unhappy in the relationship abd that's why he goes to a bar 5 nights a week. I guess I would have assumed it had more to do with his severe
alcoholism, since there are a lot of different places to go in a major city.
Our ages really indicated to u that he is going to a bar often in 4 th mo, because he is unhappy with me?
I think he is unhappy with him.
I spoke to the bar today. They do confirm that they will not serve him in support of his recovery. The bartender agreed that she feels awkward and uncomfortable w him being there. She does feel he is slipping, but he won't get the drink at their bar.
Obviously he is unhappy in the relationship. He says he doesn't like my treatment of him. My treatment of him was of respect and compassion, and support for a new, better life, one where he could build a relationship back up with his only child.
All of that goes minimized, and unacknowledged. The treatment that I think he does not like is that in which I treat him like an adult, and when I hold him accountable.
So, yeah. I guess you are right. He is unhappy in the relationship abd that's why he goes to a bar 5 nights a week. I guess I would have assumed it had more to do with his severe
alcoholism, since there are a lot of different places to go in a major city.
Our ages really indicated to u that he is going to a bar often in 4 th mo, because he is unhappy with me?
I think he is unhappy with him.
Who's "sicker" here? Him, for doing it, or you, for allowing and justifying it?
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
Who's "sicker" here? Him, for doing it, or you, for allowing and justifying it?
and buffalo66, will you continue to allow this man (using the term loosely) to show your son how a man treats a woman.
how little respect he has for you?
he hears and sees it all.
all of it.
Beth
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Am not sure if you guys caught the sarcastic drift in my last post. It was in response to liquoranddrugs post, which plainly stated he thought it seemed like my SO was unhappy w the relationship and that's why he was staying out.
I do not justify his actions. I have asked him to leave. I made plenty of boundaries about him being here. I held my ground.
I am certainly struggling with being entangled w a man I have a child w. I have been entangled for 10 years.
I was asking how common it is for recovering alcoholics to behave this way, to project, blame, and frequent bars. Calling me "sick" is fine for you, but those of us who are trying to live or
raise a child w alcoholic people are also learning, trying, and starting over a lot.
Thanks for all thoughtful responses.
I do not justify his actions. I have asked him to leave. I made plenty of boundaries about him being here. I held my ground.
I am certainly struggling with being entangled w a man I have a child w. I have been entangled for 10 years.
I was asking how common it is for recovering alcoholics to behave this way, to project, blame, and frequent bars. Calling me "sick" is fine for you, but those of us who are trying to live or
raise a child w alcoholic people are also learning, trying, and starting over a lot.
Thanks for all thoughtful responses.
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Originally Posted by Buffalo66
I spoke to the bar today. They do confirm that they will not serve him in support of his recovery. The bartender agreed that she feels awkward and uncomfortable w him being there. She does feel he is slipping, but he won't get the drink at their bar.
My treatment of him was of respect and compassion, and support for a new, better life, one where he could build a relationship back up with his only child.
All of that goes minimized, and unacknowledged. The treatment that I think he does not like is that in which I treat him like an adult, and when I hold him accountable.
My treatment of him was of respect and compassion, and support for a new, better life, one where he could build a relationship back up with his only child.
All of that goes minimized, and unacknowledged. The treatment that I think he does not like is that in which I treat him like an adult, and when I hold him accountable.
I'm so sorry you are having to through this. I can only just imagine how painful things have been!
One thing that I will only gently point out that there are complete opposites involved in the two paragraphs above. First, you call the bar to try and control that situation. In the next paragraph you say that you treat him as an adult. Trying to control his environment is not treating him as an adult, and continuing to make his actions your responsibility can only distress you further.
Finally I would ask you if the reason you "treat him with respect and compassion" is merely to receive an acknowledgement for all your efforts. I have learned one very important thing in my life, I can't do things for someone expecting them to fulfill some need in me......that expectation can only lead to disappointment.
Huge hugs and prayers for you and your precious child. HG
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
it must be exhausting just going day to day with this person....
I don't think I could do it, the tension, the upset, wondering what who if why.
YOU really deserve better treatment and so does your child. he obviously doesn't give a rat's a$$. 10 YEARS is a long time to be treated crappy...he's taken enough from you, don't let him take any more.
I hope you consider cutting your losses and getting away soon. both you and your son will be better and happier.
I don't think I could do it, the tension, the upset, wondering what who if why.
YOU really deserve better treatment and so does your child. he obviously doesn't give a rat's a$$. 10 YEARS is a long time to be treated crappy...he's taken enough from you, don't let him take any more.
I hope you consider cutting your losses and getting away soon. both you and your son will be better and happier.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Great Outdoors
Posts: 1,992
Buffalo...I was trying to ask this but every time I try to type out what I am thinking it doesn't come out right. I am trying to say that miserable people sometimes put blame on their partner to make themselves feel superior. I was in a situation like this for years and now when I read about it I was in a BIGTIME codependent relationship..anyway..I found this in an article..maybe this is it?
TWO: In the conflictual marriage the partners take turns trying to make the spouse take the underadequate role, to blame the other for the self's unhappiness. The same projection processes are going on but the spouse refuses to accept the projection. They spend most of their time blaming each other for their own misery. This can be quite a stable system because the payoff for each is that they don't have to take responsibility for themselves.
Whatever it is..I hope that you can get on your own for awhile..you and your child deserve so much better..
TWO: In the conflictual marriage the partners take turns trying to make the spouse take the underadequate role, to blame the other for the self's unhappiness. The same projection processes are going on but the spouse refuses to accept the projection. They spend most of their time blaming each other for their own misery. This can be quite a stable system because the payoff for each is that they don't have to take responsibility for themselves.
Whatever it is..I hope that you can get on your own for awhile..you and your child deserve so much better..
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Great Outdoors
Posts: 1,992
I have to add that ALL of our problems were alcohol induced. I won't look back. I got sober and it really makes ALOT clear to me. Not everything..but some things will never be resolved.
I also have to tell you...I am not sure you are getting the truth from the bartender. They are there to make money. Where I live I watch bartenders lie to spouses or SOs on the phone all the time. They protect the customers. I wish you the best..
I also have to tell you...I am not sure you are getting the truth from the bartender. They are there to make money. Where I live I watch bartenders lie to spouses or SOs on the phone all the time. They protect the customers. I wish you the best..
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Sunny South
Posts: 1,666
Sadly, we alcoholics don't have relationships, we take hostages.
This disease is a family disease. Everyone is inflicted a touch of "alcoholism".
Just as the alcoholic has to focus on their recovery, the family, and loved ones need to focus on theirs.
In other words, I can't spend time worrying about how my husband is recovering from the insane actions of my disease. I have to get well, work the steps and be a living amends to he, and my family.
I think what we are trying to say is to focus on you. His recovery, or lack of, is his business.
However, what you decide are your boundaries of acceptable loving behavior is your business.
I can only imagine how hard this is for you. Please take care of yourself and your son...you deserve to be treated with kindness.
This disease is a family disease. Everyone is inflicted a touch of "alcoholism".
Just as the alcoholic has to focus on their recovery, the family, and loved ones need to focus on theirs.
In other words, I can't spend time worrying about how my husband is recovering from the insane actions of my disease. I have to get well, work the steps and be a living amends to he, and my family.
I think what we are trying to say is to focus on you. His recovery, or lack of, is his business.
However, what you decide are your boundaries of acceptable loving behavior is your business.
I can only imagine how hard this is for you. Please take care of yourself and your son...you deserve to be treated with kindness.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Well, it's become an interesting and very helpful thread for me.
Calling a bar to see if he is consuming alcohol is not a controlling action in alanon/ detachment terms for me for this reason;
His sobriety/ consumption is a main point of the conditions and boundaries that I set forth for him to live here, with me. Now, as a responsible parent, I must try to learn the truth, because he drives a car and we have a child. I want to know if he is drinking so I can make the proper choices.
I want to point out that the bartenders might lies as someone just suggested, but, I don't know if they are. There are enough mutual friends to confirm.
The whole thread brings up so many questions about detaching, "keeping your eyes on your own work"... His work is his of course, and with the assumption of total honesty I can detach and make choices. If he's lying, that's part of my work to suss out.
Yes, he is a cad. He is struggling. He told me last night that he knows going there is dirty living, that he is, in his words "snuggling up to his old life without kissing it..." he says it is where he is right now, that he will phase through it. I called bull. I said your new life is now. I don't want to gamble on whether you start to kiss.
I also don't want to coddle and wait for him to decide to turn harder to the program for transformation, assistance, guidance.
It is a hard line to walk, someone goes from being a fall down drunk, unfunctional, to working, trying... And we are supposed to hard line. Some people say, "it's been 4 months!! He should be vigilant, he should be more grateful"
others say, " it's only been 4 months!!! He is going to go through a lot before some of this new ideology takes hold in him"
respecting him as an adult, and caring and seeing how hard it is to change..expecting better from him. It's all very confusing.
Going to the bar is OK in his experience of recovery, and even if he's lying to himself, that's his work.
My work is about determining what is true, whether it is safe and happy for my son and for me.
It is not easy to navigate.
All of your time and responses are helpful for my processing this. I am a work in progress.
Thanks to all
Calling a bar to see if he is consuming alcohol is not a controlling action in alanon/ detachment terms for me for this reason;
His sobriety/ consumption is a main point of the conditions and boundaries that I set forth for him to live here, with me. Now, as a responsible parent, I must try to learn the truth, because he drives a car and we have a child. I want to know if he is drinking so I can make the proper choices.
I want to point out that the bartenders might lies as someone just suggested, but, I don't know if they are. There are enough mutual friends to confirm.
The whole thread brings up so many questions about detaching, "keeping your eyes on your own work"... His work is his of course, and with the assumption of total honesty I can detach and make choices. If he's lying, that's part of my work to suss out.
Yes, he is a cad. He is struggling. He told me last night that he knows going there is dirty living, that he is, in his words "snuggling up to his old life without kissing it..." he says it is where he is right now, that he will phase through it. I called bull. I said your new life is now. I don't want to gamble on whether you start to kiss.
I also don't want to coddle and wait for him to decide to turn harder to the program for transformation, assistance, guidance.
It is a hard line to walk, someone goes from being a fall down drunk, unfunctional, to working, trying... And we are supposed to hard line. Some people say, "it's been 4 months!! He should be vigilant, he should be more grateful"
others say, " it's only been 4 months!!! He is going to go through a lot before some of this new ideology takes hold in him"
respecting him as an adult, and caring and seeing how hard it is to change..expecting better from him. It's all very confusing.
Going to the bar is OK in his experience of recovery, and even if he's lying to himself, that's his work.
My work is about determining what is true, whether it is safe and happy for my son and for me.
It is not easy to navigate.
All of your time and responses are helpful for my processing this. I am a work in progress.
Thanks to all
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,908
Again, whether or not he is drinking isn't really the point, is it? I mean, if he still treats you like crap but isn't drinking, does that mean you're okay with the relationship? I wouldn't think so. Go back and read your first post in this thread. If someone treated me like that and talked to me that way, I wouldn't care whether they were drinking or not. That behavior is totally unacceptable.
It's up to you what you will put up with, but I think you are putting way too much emphasis on the drinking/not drinking aspect and not enough on the way he treats you in general.
It's up to you what you will put up with, but I think you are putting way too much emphasis on the drinking/not drinking aspect and not enough on the way he treats you in general.
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 375
Buffalo...I was trying to ask this but every time I try to type out what I am thinking it doesn't come out right. I am trying to say that miserable people sometimes put blame on their partner to make themselves feel superior. I was in a situation like this for years and now when I read about it I was in a BIGTIME codependent relationship..anyway..I found this in an article..maybe this is it?
Even if he really is not drinking and hanging out at this bar, he is not making the effort to make a real change. It is only a matter of time before he would start drinking again because he is putting himself in an environment where alcohol is available, and surrounding himself my enablers.
I don't think this is about control. I think this is about deciding what you will and won't tolerate?
Is it really fair that he does a behavior that makes you suspicious of his honesty and then get mad at you for being suspicious?
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Baghdad
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Originally Posted by Buffalo66
I was asking how common it is for recovering alcoholics to behave this way, to project, blame, and frequent bars.
From the perspective of a recovered alcoholic, I would have thought that every alcoholic in recovery would know that standard advice for those in early recovery, stay away from wet people/places.
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