Justfor1

It's good that you don't have to get to the point of the skid row alcoholic type. I have a college degree & had a career at one point and went to one of the best rehab (and most expensive) rehab in the country. Nine months after graduating that program I relapsed, lost everything and becoming homeless. I resorted to drinking rubbing alcohol, mouthwash ect.. because it was easier to steal. I think some
low bottom alcoholics may look down on you because they are jealous and wish they didn't lose everything. I know I am.

LaFemme

Thanks for bringing this up

I've noticed it to and have tried not to think about it personally because I know how easy it would be to go "gee...I guess I'm not a real alcoholic...pass the Chardonnay! " so I don't think about it personally...but I see it here a good bit and it worries me because if someone is shaky in their recovery and a person even implies they might not be an alcoholic that might be just the crack that is necessary to let the monster get back inside.

P.s. - I don't find your posts militant

CarolD

If I listen to negetive people...I get myself out of
emotional balance.....and that's not in my best interest.

I strongly suggest everyone continue to do what enriches
their lives.....

findingt

Great post!! You've put in writing what I was contemplating last week, funny how the addicted side comes out and says "well maybe you're not a REAL alcoholic like they say" when I know very well that alcohol has only brought misery and that one drink can lead to many more.

On a site like this I agree that we should be careful with telling anyone else "you're not a real alcoholic" cus they might just listen and go drink. Although I'm responsible for my actions and that first drink, it'd be very easy to use that logic to say well they have experience they know what they're talking about I'll just continue drinking.

Murray4x5

That's exactly what I was afraid of. Sorry you had to go through that, but thanks for sharing your cautionary tale. You should get a great big hero badge for getting back here so fast!

Murray

Mark75

sorry to double dip... but....

I was never told by anyone here that I was or was not a "real alcoholic"... it was a question that came from within myself and my own fledgling sobriety... I might read a post that says "I am a real alcoholic like what is described in the Big Book"... and I would then add, secretly, to myself... "Well, hmmmm... maybe I am not a real alcoholic because this person posting seems (to me) to have set himself apart ..."

I made the comparison... I felt that somehow there must be this standard... funny thing is, who sets the standard, for me, who makes that determination??? .... well, I do!!!

While I absolutely, positively felt that same reverse elitism that Murray did, as I mentioned previously... It did not mean that I was or was not an alcoholic... Not at all... I am responsible for my own diagnosis, my own recovery and if I choose to drink, my own relapse... Not the big book thumper who got under my skin simply by sharing their own experience...

Good thread by the way, one I thought about starting many times....

Supercrew

Well Mark I was, in no uncertain terms, especially in the first month or so of my sobriety when I started getting upity myself on my own personal high of recovery with my own willpower.

In the first few weeks of my sobriety I had a very very strong resolve, and once I detoxed and started getting healthier and happy I was probably arrogant about it because I was proud of myself. Being that I was getting some nice support here and my home and financial life was going well it was very easy for me to look at a post and say, "Hey look at me!! I'm doing it with willpower and I'm not a dry drunk or unhappy about life, you can do it too!" My posts were probably overbearing at best with my enthusiasm and my "It's easy" attitude.

Then came replies that, "obviously YOU aren't the true alcoholic described in the Big Book." I probably brought a majority of the replies on myself, and I was even argumentative and created posts questioning AA and some of it's ideas, because I was having an easy time with it, I wasn't constantly obsessing over alcohol, and I truly believed I would never drink again.

After getting some posts locked and or deleted, and reading alot of the same AA and sad posts over and over it seemed like for a couple of weeks, I decided not to visit here everyday, (which was one of the recovery principles I wrote when I put my program together). I sort of felt like I was cured, and I was fine for a couple of weeks. I wasn't craving drinking at all, and I was happy and content. I wasn't stressed or even overly happy, and I was sitting outside a 7/11 and I said to myself, "let's see if 2 tallboys will give you a little buzz", I bought them, drank them, had no effect whatsover, in fact I didn't even enjoy the taste. I didn't have another drink for a whole week, and I didn't even think about booze again, and I didn't visit SR at all that week. That Friday a week later I got just a little more to drink than the last time to see if I would feel anything, and I didn't, and I stopped again.....you can probably guess where it ended up about 2 months later...back to square one but even worse.

Now I don't blame anyone besides myself for the relapse, I lost sight of my recovery, didn't follow my program, and was quite arrogant regarding my own willpower and strength versus my mind and alcohol. But, (and some of my own posts caused this), I felt pushed away from this site because I didn't feel like I was really a part of it anymore and I hated being told what I was, and I didn't like being censored.

So my point is, and the more I am writing the more I am realizing, that we need to get along with everyone, and not judge anyone on this site, because this site, keeps people sober. We need to keep people active. I might not agree with someone, but I know this place is beneficial for recovery and support, and the more people come here and participate the better chance they have for a successful recovery.

If any new members are reading this post and you think you have a problem with alcohol don't be disuaded to visit here often. Even if you feel put off by a post, or you get upset with a Mod, or you just get bored...keep coming back because whether you believe it or not it helps to keep you sober. And also remember that even though some of us maybe be loudmouths and arrogant when posting about our programs we are all here for the same reason.....to stay happily sober.

Jackedjohn

I haven't read every reply to this post so I hope I'm not repeating anything. I found, especially at the beginning, that there were 2 polar opposites in recovery. I had people who told me that I wasn't a real alcoholic and that I was a "*****" (excuse the language) who didn't know what real pain and loss was. And I had the opposite people who were telling me how powerless and diseased I was and it was a "Godsend" that I found recovery. Both ways were very extreme for me. The bottom line for me was whether I am or am not a "Big Book Alcoholic" or any other version of an alcoholic that for ANY INDIVIDUAL it is indisputably more healthy to abstain from alcohol. You can be a text book social drinker who decides to not drink. Abstinence isn't only for the homeless. It is a gift we can all give ourselves and our livers!

Dee74

It was a revelation when I realised other recovering alcoholics were just like me.

We can all be bombastic and dogmatic, and blinkered and arrogant and impossibly proud, and full of hot air.

But I hope we all try not to be - and I believe we can all be brilliant and wonderful human beings too - and I know that ultimately we're all on the same side.

I've been a lot happier in my life since I realised other people's opinions are just that - opinions.

Take them or leave them , it's our call, but we all have a right to them here, whatever they are. We lose nothing by them being shared and hopefully we all log off somewhat richer for having been here today. That's the way it should be IMO.

But if I take someone else's opinion and 'use' it to justify doing something that I know darn well is wrong, or bad for me - well...I think that's my fault, not theirs.

D

Supercrew

I agree completely Dee, and just want to say that I think it's more important to keep people here. Because when you are here and you are active you are concentrating on and thinking about recovery.

Again I blame no one but myself for losing track and getting lazy with my program. And thanks Dee for moderating and keeping this place civil. You do a good job, and I have seen enough negative posts to know that often times it is thankless.

LaFemme

Just want to add that I think Supercrew is 100% spot on here. He speaks from experience and really knows what he is talking about on this.

I am really glad supercrew is here and back...in the 6 months I have been here I have seen a number of people leave sr for these reasons.

LaFemme

And I think we should all be cognizant of how our posts effect one another...it would slay me if I ever thought one of my posts led anyone in any way back to the bottle.

Mark75

Thanx for sharing Supercrew.

Please realize, that I know exactly how you felt, just as I know exactly how Murray felt, ....because I felt the same way (even about the part about feeling pushed away and getting censored (and I was, strongly)).... I didn't drink, but I sure could have.

It's really a testament to SR, how seriously we take what we read and write here, uh? If this is a place were we really didn't care about each and just a place to beat on our chests and flame each other, I wouldn't give a r@t's ass what another poster says... but I do.

But if we have the power, here on SR or in real life, to make someone else drink, there are still issues with that persons sobriety that need working out... Which is precisely why I jumped in on this thread... I remember getting all shaken up (see my first post) with that whole "I am a "real" alcoholic: thing.... It allowed me, no... forced me to look at that... Seems you looked at it too.... Maybe we came to the same conclusion?

Good stuff

Freyakitty

This is timely for me so thank you. I am fairly new and did see some posts talking about real, high and low bottom alcoholics and I did think hmmm, I don't think I fit in and maybe I should just lurk and not post since my alcohol issues aren't as extreme. But the site's name is sober recovery and I did over drink and I did use alcohol to self medicate and I really don't think it is productive to label because in my opinion, that's putting oneself into a little box called x and then your mind can justify behaviour and actions and reasons not to improve your life. Everyone has a right to live up to our fullest potential and alcohol was preventing us all from doing that - now that we are focussed on sobriety, we all have that opportunity and sharing and supporting one another is paramount so I'm staying - sorry you will have to kick me off the site.

Murray4x5

I was pretty n-n-n-nervous about starting this thread but there have been some really thought provoking posts, especially Supercrew's for his insight, and yours for that last bit. Thanks

Murray

LexieCat

I think most of what I'd say has already been said.

I also went through some angst over the "real alcoholic" concept, in particular. I think we are all pretty touchy and insecure in early recovery. Heck, most of us hardly have a clue who/what we are for awhile. I'm finally getting a true sense of it again, but it has taken awhile. Sometimes "touchy and insecure" can also manifest as being glib or smug and certain we know what's best for other people.

Thankfully, most of us grow out of that--both the insecurity and the ways it affects us and others--with solid recovery. We no longer need to prove anything to anyone. We can share what worked for us, make suggestions, but the sense of being under attack goes away.

A sense of tolerance is one of the gifts of recovery--it helps us and others we want to help.

Zencat

It seems to me that there a whole bunch of definitions that describe what alcoholism is. I see how confusing that can be if someone is trying to understand if they serious problem or not. I think this has been an ongoing problem when people or groups outside of the medical community offer their own unique diagnosis of a condition only to support their proclaimed treatment. Not always a bad thing that they do but it could befuddle a person because they do it.

cabledude

What's common is to not have an effective solution and because of that wind up drunk again.

After the fact we search back for an excuse we don't believe but feel most people might accept...'they made me do it cause they said in reference to other people something that made me believe that all the things that make it so obvious I am alcoholic could be temporarily ignored, because of that thing those people said regarding a type of drinker that really has nothing at all to do with me or my experience. So of course I drank, but now it's different because...well, it just is, so shaddup.'

Most alcoholics spin in the same circles until they find a solution that makes reality 24/7 tenable. Nothing new or surprising at all when an alcoholic has to drink again after they weren't going to drink again. How they make that reasonable with some excuse other than they have no reliable defense against the first drink is interesting to observe.

And most often, the solution they land on is to do the same thing that didn't work more vigourously than last time. And with greater intensity and commitment, as if the answer is to really, really, really decide not to drink, instead of simply really deciding not to drink, which obviously wasn't near enough reallys.

I don't know if I'd be inspired by someone who stayed sober 7 months by say, stuffing their underware with eucalyptus leaves, and proclaiming that what new people should do is to gain the freedom that comes with leaf-stuffed underware, because that has worked so well.

I'd look for the people who've not drank and lived well for a long time, and give consideration to what that means. I got tired long ago of getting sober several times a year, or every other year. And, the leaves chaffed.

julez

I'm really glad to be reading all the responses to Murrays thread. I have felt the elitism here, and yes, it bugged me....
Last week, I got my feelings hurt at an AA meeting. Truly, leaving there, I never ever wanted to go back. There is this hard ass gangster type, who basically repeated something I said, very mockingly, at the table I was at. I don't go to meetings all doom and gloom. I go with a smile on my face and upbeat conversation and hellos to everyone. This guy clearly thinks I'm on a pink cloud, and he's made references to it before, just not so direct. This guy is a 40 something hoodlum who acts like a total gangbanger, and he is intimidating and ridiculous at the same time. Anyway, after he mocked me I said "Oh come on, don't make fun" in a joking way, but the more I sat there, the more it stung.
I've said this on here before, and I'll say it again.. You don't have to wear the badge of dishonor to be an alcoholic. Just because I'm considered "high bottom" doesn't mean alcohol wasn't contributing to problems in my life. I'm glad I quit. I'm glad I didn't hurt anyone, or end up in jail.
Just my 2 cents..

Justfor1

I look at it the other way. I don't feel that there is enough REAL alcoholics here at SR and in the rooms of AA. I struggle to identify how one could be an alcoholic and still have a job? For me, if I could work I would never say I had a problem with alcohol. The founders of AA were down and out alcoholics. I had DT's, I've been in jail and lived on the streets yet I'm here sober with a number of years working a near perfect program. I wore dirty clothes, stole, lied, cheated and begged for money. I was the stereotype alki. I find stories like mine more inspiring in recovery.