What AA Means By "Powerless"
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 81
Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr 
I got sober in AA because that was the only route. But today there are physicians who are addiction specialists and much more is know about the disease.
HBO had a wonderful series, "Addiction." which shows there are more options now, such as cognitive therapy and medication that cuts down craving for alcohol.
All the information from the HBO show can be found here: HBO: Addiction. I learned more in a few hours than in a decade and a half of sobriety.
HBO had a wonderful series, "Addiction." which shows there are more options now, such as cognitive therapy and medication that cuts down craving for alcohol.
All the information from the HBO show can be found here: HBO: Addiction. I learned more in a few hours than in a decade and a half of sobriety.
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by MrDavid
Powerless over people, places and things...personal powerlessness as well.
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 818
Murray, If you consider yourself to be a chronic alcoholic, one who cannot not drink, and you were able to stop drinking by sheer willpower alone, my hat is off to you, sir.
Your genetic makeup is no different that mine if you fall into the category I described above. That genetic combination we alcoholics have, that the other 90% of the population doesn't have, makes bad stuff happen when we drink. We have no control over that, we cannot keep that reaction from happening. And you're right, there's no mysterious evil force out there trying to get me drunk. Alcohol is an element of nature, like a tree or a cloud. It's neither good no evil.
The question arises then, in how I stop from picking up that first drink? As you said, it's all about choices. I can choose to pick up that drink or choose to not pick it up. If that mental obsession and overpowering compulsion is there along with my physical addiction, however, I don't think of it as a choice anymore. I pick up that drink. My obsessive/compulsive behavior and addiction leave me with no choice. Again, we're talking nature here. Genetics, alcohol, and brain chemistry. No instinct driven basal urges, just physical and psychological issues.
But that's me. So I have to learn somehow to overcome these behaviors and addiction, to enable myself to regain the power of choice. I can't do anything about the genetic stuff that causes bad thing to happen when I drink, so I have to look to change myself, my character if you will, as that's what picks up the drink.
But I'm not like you. God knows I tried often to exert my willpower here. Didn't work. I had the willpower to quit smoking 3 packs a day, but not to quit drinking. So I needed help, and I found it in AA. And in the AA program we turn to a power greater than ourselves for help. That's a matter of Faith, not nature. But again, that's me. Other people find other programs that work for them. That's good, too.
I won't say whether you stepped off the slope earlier than I, but you probably did. I was drinking 2 ltrs of vodka a day when I stopped. That doesn't make me more or less an alcoholic than anyone else, though. And yeah, time will tell if you remain sober for the rest of your life. You feel confident you'll always be able to make the right choice. Same with me. Time will tell. I feel confident that as long as I live the principles of AA, I'll make the right choice, too.
Your genetic makeup is no different that mine if you fall into the category I described above. That genetic combination we alcoholics have, that the other 90% of the population doesn't have, makes bad stuff happen when we drink. We have no control over that, we cannot keep that reaction from happening. And you're right, there's no mysterious evil force out there trying to get me drunk. Alcohol is an element of nature, like a tree or a cloud. It's neither good no evil.
The question arises then, in how I stop from picking up that first drink? As you said, it's all about choices. I can choose to pick up that drink or choose to not pick it up. If that mental obsession and overpowering compulsion is there along with my physical addiction, however, I don't think of it as a choice anymore. I pick up that drink. My obsessive/compulsive behavior and addiction leave me with no choice. Again, we're talking nature here. Genetics, alcohol, and brain chemistry. No instinct driven basal urges, just physical and psychological issues.
But that's me. So I have to learn somehow to overcome these behaviors and addiction, to enable myself to regain the power of choice. I can't do anything about the genetic stuff that causes bad thing to happen when I drink, so I have to look to change myself, my character if you will, as that's what picks up the drink.
But I'm not like you. God knows I tried often to exert my willpower here. Didn't work. I had the willpower to quit smoking 3 packs a day, but not to quit drinking. So I needed help, and I found it in AA. And in the AA program we turn to a power greater than ourselves for help. That's a matter of Faith, not nature. But again, that's me. Other people find other programs that work for them. That's good, too.
I won't say whether you stepped off the slope earlier than I, but you probably did. I was drinking 2 ltrs of vodka a day when I stopped. That doesn't make me more or less an alcoholic than anyone else, though. And yeah, time will tell if you remain sober for the rest of your life. You feel confident you'll always be able to make the right choice. Same with me. Time will tell. I feel confident that as long as I live the principles of AA, I'll make the right choice, too.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New York City
Posts: 154
Originally Posted by Murray4x5
I beg to differ, Rob. As in the definition from the Mayo Clinic above, we are both alcoholics.
There is a long downhill slope from that first ever drink, to an ugly alcohol fuelled death. Alcoholism is progressive. Maybe I stepped off that slope earlier than you, or before any real serious damage was done, but if I had kept progressing merrily along at the pace I was going I would have surely met your definition of a real alcoholic.
I believe I am 100% responsible for my staying sober. There is no mysterious evil force out there that is trying to make me get drunk, just as there's no mysterious good force out there that can save me.
It's all chemistry, physiology, and psychology. My limbic system and brain stem are trying every trick in their evolutionary quiver to make my rational, thinking brain decide to drink again. Simple as that.
Only time will tell, as somebody pointed out to me earlier, if I remain sober for the rest of my life or not. It's my belief that I am not powerless over alcohol because to drink again I will have to decide to buy some booze, I'll have to decide not to throw it away on the way home, I'll have to decide not to pour it down the drain but to pour it in a glass, then I'll have to decide to raise it to my lips, then I'll have to decide to pour some into my mouth, then I'll have to decide not to spit it out but to swallow it...then I'll have to decide to drink the rest.
That leaves a person plenty of opportunities to choose not to dink, don't you think? That leaves plenty of opportunities for a person to choose reason over instinct driven basal urges, don't you think?
Anyways...however one manages to do it, it should be seen as a triumph
Murray
There is a long downhill slope from that first ever drink, to an ugly alcohol fuelled death. Alcoholism is progressive. Maybe I stepped off that slope earlier than you, or before any real serious damage was done, but if I had kept progressing merrily along at the pace I was going I would have surely met your definition of a real alcoholic.
I believe I am 100% responsible for my staying sober. There is no mysterious evil force out there that is trying to make me get drunk, just as there's no mysterious good force out there that can save me.
It's all chemistry, physiology, and psychology. My limbic system and brain stem are trying every trick in their evolutionary quiver to make my rational, thinking brain decide to drink again. Simple as that.
Only time will tell, as somebody pointed out to me earlier, if I remain sober for the rest of my life or not. It's my belief that I am not powerless over alcohol because to drink again I will have to decide to buy some booze, I'll have to decide not to throw it away on the way home, I'll have to decide not to pour it down the drain but to pour it in a glass, then I'll have to decide to raise it to my lips, then I'll have to decide to pour some into my mouth, then I'll have to decide not to spit it out but to swallow it...then I'll have to decide to drink the rest.
That leaves a person plenty of opportunities to choose not to dink, don't you think? That leaves plenty of opportunities for a person to choose reason over instinct driven basal urges, don't you think?
Anyways...however one manages to do it, it should be seen as a triumph
Murray
. It was good to hear this perspective
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
If anyones interested there's a talk on powerlessness here. : Dharma Punx - MP3 Talks
You have to click on "Buddhism & Recovery Step 1" to get to the talk. They try to integrate AA's steps into the Buddhist philosophy. For example in Buddhism your higher power would be mindfulness as they don't recognize duality. The belief is that the power comes from within you as opposed to an outside supernatural force. It's an interesting talk and gives you a little more perspective if anyone is interested.
You have to click on "Buddhism & Recovery Step 1" to get to the talk. They try to integrate AA's steps into the Buddhist philosophy. For example in Buddhism your higher power would be mindfulness as they don't recognize duality. The belief is that the power comes from within you as opposed to an outside supernatural force. It's an interesting talk and gives you a little more perspective if anyone is interested.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
The opinion that matters really at the end of the day for any of us is the honest be-true-to-ourselves individual one held by each person who for what ever reason suffers or has suffered from drinking alcohol. A person does not need to be an alcoholic to be in all kinds of trouble with alcohol drinking. Lives can still be destroyed and that particular individual never had, has, or ever will have the illness of alcoholism. Most drinkers do not acquire or otherwise have alcoholism, has been my life experiences working with others. IMO, many more are problem drinkers or hard drinkers rather than drinkers who have actual alcoholism as an illness. But that's me, and some others, who think that way about the differences between alcoholism and problem drinking.
Alcoholic or hard-drinker or problem drinker. Its a big world and we all have our experiences and opinions. Live and let live.
Rob
Alcoholic or hard-drinker or problem drinker. Its a big world and we all have our experiences and opinions. Live and let live.
Rob
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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this thread is awesome and proves to me that the poeple that wrote the BB were very smart in stating it is suggestions.
to each his own opinion. if what anyone is doin in workin, keep it up.
if it aint, change it.
yes, the BB says powerless over alcohol. i am powerless period. but there is one who has all power, one who can help me with all my problems, which the BB was written to help me find.
to each his own opinion. if what anyone is doin in workin, keep it up.
if it aint, change it.
yes, the BB says powerless over alcohol. i am powerless period. but there is one who has all power, one who can help me with all my problems, which the BB was written to help me find.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern Us
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I quit drinking almost two years ago. I made a decision once and for all that I don't drink. It is done. There is no willpower involved. I don't drink alcohol. Period. Ever.
So I would have to state that I certainly am NOT powerless over alcohol. Infact, I rarely think of it outside of when I'm here.
So I would have to state that I certainly am NOT powerless over alcohol. Infact, I rarely think of it outside of when I'm here.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,191
When the Big Book refers to being powerless over alcohol it speaks of a certain type of alcoholic. Not every problem drinker falls into the category of which the Big Book speaks. There are drinkers out there who can say "I quit. Ive had enough" and be done for good. They are not powerless. A lack of power is not their dilemma. Drinking too much is. I never had a problem saying I quit, I just couldnt follow through with it. I was indeed powerless. In and of myself I am still powerless, but as the Big Book promises, I have tapped a new source of power. I have received the power to help people. I am no longer powerless. The power does not come from me, but it is mine to use if I do the work to make myself fit to use it.
Lack of power was my dilemma. The program showed me clearly where and how to find that power. Thank God for that.
Lack of power was my dilemma. The program showed me clearly where and how to find that power. Thank God for that.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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Originally Posted by ru12
I quit drinking almost two years ago. I made a decision once and for all that I don't drink. It is done. There is no willpower involved. I don't drink alcohol. Period. Ever.
So I would have to state that I certainly am NOT powerless over alcohol. Infact, I rarely think of it outside of when I'm here.
So I would have to state that I certainly am NOT powerless over alcohol. Infact, I rarely think of it outside of when I'm here.
please take note that this thread is about the program of alcoholics anonymous. the people here are sharing their experience of powerless in the program of alcoholics anonymous. you are free to your opionion, why post it in a thread about powerless in AA?
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by MrDavid
Powerless over people, places and things...personal powerlessness as well.
~God bless~
~God bless~
If I have no power over anyone......why help anyone else? Why carry a message? Why make amends since I couldn't have hurt them in the first place? Going a step further, make some amends and you'll see all kinds of power coming out of you... etc etc etc.
Lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live,. You're only powerless over ppl, places and things in your mind......and maybe in the opinion of some therapists......it's not, however, the truth. Tap into that Power greater than yourself and you're no longer powerless.....(even though you never really were to begin with
).
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
Originally Posted by DayTrader
That's not AA's message.....and I'd suggest you're NOT powerless over people, places and things either. Some, sure you are.....but not all. That's just another treatment center line that gets tossed around AA as if it's AA's message.......yet it's totally contradicts the message of recovery.
If I have no power over anyone......why help anyone else? Why carry a message? Why make amends since I couldn't have hurt them in the first place? Going a step further, make some amends and you'll see all kinds of power coming out of you... etc etc etc.
Lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live,. You're only powerless over ppl, places and things in your mind......and maybe in the opinion of some therapists......it's not, however, the truth. Tap into that Power greater than yourself and you're no longer powerless.....(even though you never really were to begin with ).
If I have no power over anyone......why help anyone else? Why carry a message? Why make amends since I couldn't have hurt them in the first place? Going a step further, make some amends and you'll see all kinds of power coming out of you... etc etc etc.
Lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live,. You're only powerless over ppl, places and things in your mind......and maybe in the opinion of some therapists......it's not, however, the truth. Tap into that Power greater than yourself and you're no longer powerless.....(even though you never really were to begin with
).That's the best explanation I've ever seen!!
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,191
Originally Posted by DayTrader
That's not AA's message.....and I'd suggest you're NOT powerless over people, places and things either. Some, sure you are.....but not all. That's just another treatment center line that gets tossed around AA as if it's AA's message.......yet it's totally contradicts the message of recovery.
If I have no power over anyone......why help anyone else? Why carry a message? Why make amends since I couldn't have hurt them in the first place? Going a step further, make some amends and you'll see all kinds of power coming out of you... etc etc etc.
Lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live,. You're only powerless over ppl, places and things in your mind......and maybe in the opinion of some therapists......it's not, however, the truth. Tap into that Power greater than yourself and you're no longer powerless.....(even though you never really were to begin with ).
If I have no power over anyone......why help anyone else? Why carry a message? Why make amends since I couldn't have hurt them in the first place? Going a step further, make some amends and you'll see all kinds of power coming out of you... etc etc etc.
Lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live,. You're only powerless over ppl, places and things in your mind......and maybe in the opinion of some therapists......it's not, however, the truth. Tap into that Power greater than yourself and you're no longer powerless.....(even though you never really were to begin with
).Thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by DayTrader
That's not AA's message.....and I'd suggest you're NOT powerless over people, places and things either. Some, sure you are.....but not all. That's just another treatment center line that gets tossed around AA as if it's AA's message.......yet it's totally contradicts the message of recovery.
If I have no power over anyone......why help anyone else? Why carry a message? Why make amends since I couldn't have hurt them in the first place? Going a step further, make some amends and you'll see all kinds of power coming out of you... etc etc etc.
Lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live,. You're only powerless over ppl, places and things in your mind......and maybe in the opinion of some therapists......it's not, however, the truth. Tap into that Power greater than yourself and you're no longer powerless.....(even though you never really were to begin with ).
If I have no power over anyone......why help anyone else? Why carry a message? Why make amends since I couldn't have hurt them in the first place? Going a step further, make some amends and you'll see all kinds of power coming out of you... etc etc etc.
Lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live,. You're only powerless over ppl, places and things in your mind......and maybe in the opinion of some therapists......it's not, however, the truth. Tap into that Power greater than yourself and you're no longer powerless.....(even though you never really were to begin with
).Outstanding!!
Really well said, Mike.
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