confused
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 139
confused
So, for those who have never read my previous posts or don't remember, I was a monderate drinker for about 20 years. Got into a realtionship that was very controlling and starting drinking 5-6 a day for a few months, quit, then binged 4-5 times after severe conflicts. He convinced me I am an alcoholic,
I have since left since it degenerated into to violence. I have also since found out he very likely has OCPD. I joined a support forum for it, apparently people that have long term realtionships with people with this disorder are frequently driven crazy by it. I know, I had also gone to the dr for meds to calm me down when I was living there, something I have never done.
Its been over 2 months since I left. No cravings for alcohol, no problem not drinking. I'd just as soon have a cup of coffee or a glass of my favorite juice,
So last Tuesday was my birthday. I admit I did this because I was curious as to what would happen the AA big book suggests trying to limit your drinks as a test. I went to a bar. Told myself I was going to drink only 3. I did. Had a friend drive me home. So I know that is not great. But I was able to stop and was actually bored by the thought of having more. No desire for alcohol since then either. I dunno what to think at this point. Maybe I am an alcoholic, maybe I am not.
I have since left since it degenerated into to violence. I have also since found out he very likely has OCPD. I joined a support forum for it, apparently people that have long term realtionships with people with this disorder are frequently driven crazy by it. I know, I had also gone to the dr for meds to calm me down when I was living there, something I have never done.
Its been over 2 months since I left. No cravings for alcohol, no problem not drinking. I'd just as soon have a cup of coffee or a glass of my favorite juice,
So last Tuesday was my birthday. I admit I did this because I was curious as to what would happen the AA big book suggests trying to limit your drinks as a test. I went to a bar. Told myself I was going to drink only 3. I did. Had a friend drive me home. So I know that is not great. But I was able to stop and was actually bored by the thought of having more. No desire for alcohol since then either. I dunno what to think at this point. Maybe I am an alcoholic, maybe I am not.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
I'm glad you're feeling ok. Only you can decide that you're an alcoholic. However, do you think a non-alcoholic would have three drinks to test himself?
I call myself an alcoholic because I can't stop at one or two. The disease progresses slowly but steadily and looking back, I'm always amazed at the beliefs I held while drunk. Even three or four months after getting sober, I firmly believed it would be ok if I drank on an airplane because it's in the sky and doesn't count. LOL It's good to remember that this isn't a rational disease. I always knew I shouldn't drink but that didn't stop me. And not feeling the desire for a drink doesn't mean I wouldn't drink one if I put my sobriety at risk.
If you continue to be honest you'll know if you're an alcoholic or not. Oh, the Big Book doesn't suggest that readers try drinking like that, it was just a story about someone who tested it.
I call myself an alcoholic because I can't stop at one or two. The disease progresses slowly but steadily and looking back, I'm always amazed at the beliefs I held while drunk. Even three or four months after getting sober, I firmly believed it would be ok if I drank on an airplane because it's in the sky and doesn't count. LOL It's good to remember that this isn't a rational disease. I always knew I shouldn't drink but that didn't stop me. And not feeling the desire for a drink doesn't mean I wouldn't drink one if I put my sobriety at risk.
If you continue to be honest you'll know if you're an alcoholic or not. Oh, the Big Book doesn't suggest that readers try drinking like that, it was just a story about someone who tested it.
Dismember
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The Mitten, USA
Posts: 1,641
The suggestion in the Big Book is primarily for those who wish to keep drinking. I would say it matters less if you're "really" an alcoholic or not, but rather I'd be asking myself "would drinking again be a positive choice?" Because even to not be an alcoholic is not itself an obligation to drink.
If you want to drink with the belief that your past problems were just a phase and you can moderate now, then I don't see why not. I would just be cautious and vigilant if that's what you decide to do. Passing the controlled drinking experiment is not an absolute guarantee that problems wont come back.
If you want to drink with the belief that your past problems were just a phase and you can moderate now, then I don't see why not. I would just be cautious and vigilant if that's what you decide to do. Passing the controlled drinking experiment is not an absolute guarantee that problems wont come back.
seeking recovery
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NSW
Posts: 171
Only time will tell for you..my experience with testing my drinking was an opening of the door to this dreadful disease as it triggers off the mental obsession of my next drink... which would then end up a binge
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,384
I liked what was said about normal drinkers not having to test their control.
I tested myself lots of times...and was always pleased when I passed the test and 'controlled' myself....
Sooner or later tho, be it a day, two days, a week later - armed with this newly found confidence and arrogance I'd invariably find myself back to my old ways, full steam ahead.
I tested myself so much over 20 years I know now without doubt what the result will be.
I could have known with as much certainty after 5 years but I wasn't ready to admit the A word.
I think you know Bubblehead - in your head and heart - if this is something new and worth pursuing, or whether this is more of the same old same old madness that bought you here to SR...
I hope you make a good choice.
D
I tested myself lots of times...and was always pleased when I passed the test and 'controlled' myself....
Sooner or later tho, be it a day, two days, a week later - armed with this newly found confidence and arrogance I'd invariably find myself back to my old ways, full steam ahead.
I tested myself so much over 20 years I know now without doubt what the result will be.
I could have known with as much certainty after 5 years but I wasn't ready to admit the A word.
I think you know Bubblehead - in your head and heart - if this is something new and worth pursuing, or whether this is more of the same old same old madness that bought you here to SR...
I hope you make a good choice.
D
Last edited by Dee74; 12-03-2010 at 03:12 AM. Reason: mistake- rectified
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 139
Oh I am NOT planning on drinking again. This forum has scared the HELL out of me with everyone's health issues. I don't really have a desire.
I guess I just had to know what would happen if I did. I had started to believe so many "off" things about myself after the relationship.
Like the sociopath thread. The one reason that got to me, my X-F told me I am a sociopath. That wasn't in reference to me drinking, it was in refernece to an argument we had where I called him out on some BS. There was a long list of things. He even once said the fact that I chew gum since I quit smoking is a sign that I am a drug addict. I have never done drugs. I think I smoked weed like 3 times as a teenager?
Don't worry, I am not going back to drinking.
I guess I just had to know what would happen if I did. I had started to believe so many "off" things about myself after the relationship.
Like the sociopath thread. The one reason that got to me, my X-F told me I am a sociopath. That wasn't in reference to me drinking, it was in refernece to an argument we had where I called him out on some BS. There was a long list of things. He even once said the fact that I chew gum since I quit smoking is a sign that I am a drug addict. I have never done drugs. I think I smoked weed like 3 times as a teenager?
Don't worry, I am not going back to drinking.
Dismember
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The Mitten, USA
Posts: 1,641
I am not terribly fond of that Big Book claim about using the experiment to find out. I think alcoholics are not so terribly predictable like that. Maybe I am not an alcoholic (I doubt that's true) but I know that I could go to a bar, have a drink or two and leave. I know other people report otherwise, but I never had a problem moderating per se, I just had a problem moderating and being satisfied with it. Just like I can be very hungry and just eat a few peanuts, I can do it but it's not going to get my stomach where it wants to be.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 445
Your story is very similar to mine (the controlling, abusive relationship). I too have tried the "controlled" drinking and of course it worked because I SO desperately wanted to drink again. I would be great for a few weeks, trying things like avoiding spirits, having a glass of water between alcoholic drinks, limiting myself to 3, etc., etc. Problem is, like many people have stated here already, gradually it would spiral out of control on me again as I was - mistakenly - lulled into a false sense of security that I can do this, I'm in control. I wasn't and I don't think I ever will be.
By the way, I've been caught in that cycle for 15 years. The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results!!
M
By the way, I've been caught in that cycle for 15 years. The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results!!
M
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Bubble:
(I'm not asking for an answer....these are questions for you to consider)
Can you control the amount you drink every time you start? You did it the other day, and that's great, but can you continue to do it?
When you choose to stop, can you stay stopped? Do you only drink when you want to or are there times when you decide to NOT drink yet find yourself drinking when you hadn't wanted to?
When you're NOT drinking, how's life going? Are you generally depressed and in turmoil and find yourself searching for a "way out" or are there problems that you're dealing with/or not dealing with but, generally speaking, things are getting better?
An alcoholic can't always control how much they drink. Once they start, they tend to develop the phenomenon of craving.....and they crave more booze. Alcoholics quit all the time....but they can't stay stopped. They choose/decide/resolve to stop.....but find themselves drunk again when they hadn't planned to get drunk.
Search your experience....what's REALLY happened in your life (not what "he" said and not what "should have" happened....but what really happens) when you were drinking and when you were stopped. If you can control the amount and you can control what time you drink (how often) then maybe you were just "studying hard to be an alcoholic" but you haven't lost control......you may still have the power of choice.
On the other hand, if you did drink more than you intended and you weren't able to stay stopped when you wanted to....then it sounds like you've lost the ability to control your drinking + the ability to control when and how much you drink.
The Marty Mann Test is a great way to see if you've lost the power of choice or not. I, for one, don't need to take it....my experience with my drinking tells me I couldn't get through more than a day or two...a week TOPS....before I'd fail and over-indulge.
Excerpt from Marty Mann's New Primer on Alcoholism©, 1981 (First Owl Book Edition), pp. 83-86.
There is a simple test which has been used hundreds of times for this purpose. Even an extremely heavy drinker should have no trouble in passing it, whereas an alcoholic, if able to complete it at all, could do so only under such heavy pressure that his life would be more miserable than he thinks it would be if he stopped drinking altogether. The chances are a hundred to one, how ever, against a true alcoholic's being either willing or able to undertake the test.
The Test: Select any time at all for instituting it. Now is the best time.
For the next six months at least decide that you will stick to a certain number of drinks a day, that number to be not less than one and not more than three. If you are not a daily drinker, then the test should be the stated number of drinks from one to three, on those days when you do drink. Some heavy drinkers confine their drinking to weekends, but still worry about the amount they consume then. Whatever number you choose must not be exceeded under any circumstances whatever, and this includes weddings, births, funerals, occasions of sudden death and disaster, unexpected or long-awaited inheritance, promotion, or other happy events, reunions or meetings with old friends or good customers, or just sheer boredom. There must also be no special occasions on which you feel justified in adding to your quota of the stated number of drinks, such as a severe emotional upset, or the appointment to close the biggest deal of your career, or the audition you've been waiting for all your life, or the meeting with someone who is crucial to your future and of whom you are terrified. Absolutely no exceptions, or the test has been failed.
This is not an easy test, but it has been passed handily by any number of drinkers who wished to show themselves, or their families and friends, that they were not compulsive drinkers. If by any chance they failed the test, showing that they were alcoholics, they showed themselves, too, that they were, whether they were then ready to admit it openly or not. At least it prepared them for such an admission, and for the constructive action which normally follows that admission.
For a non alkie (my mother, for example) the hardest part of the test will being able to drink that MUCH and that OFTEN. For me, like I said earlier, there's noooooo way I'd get through a week without having more than the # I picked (and rest assured, I would choose 3 because that gives me the most alcohol.
)
(I'm not asking for an answer....these are questions for you to consider)
Can you control the amount you drink every time you start? You did it the other day, and that's great, but can you continue to do it?
When you choose to stop, can you stay stopped? Do you only drink when you want to or are there times when you decide to NOT drink yet find yourself drinking when you hadn't wanted to?
When you're NOT drinking, how's life going? Are you generally depressed and in turmoil and find yourself searching for a "way out" or are there problems that you're dealing with/or not dealing with but, generally speaking, things are getting better?
An alcoholic can't always control how much they drink. Once they start, they tend to develop the phenomenon of craving.....and they crave more booze. Alcoholics quit all the time....but they can't stay stopped. They choose/decide/resolve to stop.....but find themselves drunk again when they hadn't planned to get drunk.
Search your experience....what's REALLY happened in your life (not what "he" said and not what "should have" happened....but what really happens) when you were drinking and when you were stopped. If you can control the amount and you can control what time you drink (how often) then maybe you were just "studying hard to be an alcoholic" but you haven't lost control......you may still have the power of choice.
On the other hand, if you did drink more than you intended and you weren't able to stay stopped when you wanted to....then it sounds like you've lost the ability to control your drinking + the ability to control when and how much you drink.
The Marty Mann Test is a great way to see if you've lost the power of choice or not. I, for one, don't need to take it....my experience with my drinking tells me I couldn't get through more than a day or two...a week TOPS....before I'd fail and over-indulge.
Excerpt from Marty Mann's New Primer on Alcoholism©, 1981 (First Owl Book Edition), pp. 83-86.
There is a simple test which has been used hundreds of times for this purpose. Even an extremely heavy drinker should have no trouble in passing it, whereas an alcoholic, if able to complete it at all, could do so only under such heavy pressure that his life would be more miserable than he thinks it would be if he stopped drinking altogether. The chances are a hundred to one, how ever, against a true alcoholic's being either willing or able to undertake the test.
The Test: Select any time at all for instituting it. Now is the best time.
For the next six months at least decide that you will stick to a certain number of drinks a day, that number to be not less than one and not more than three. If you are not a daily drinker, then the test should be the stated number of drinks from one to three, on those days when you do drink. Some heavy drinkers confine their drinking to weekends, but still worry about the amount they consume then. Whatever number you choose must not be exceeded under any circumstances whatever, and this includes weddings, births, funerals, occasions of sudden death and disaster, unexpected or long-awaited inheritance, promotion, or other happy events, reunions or meetings with old friends or good customers, or just sheer boredom. There must also be no special occasions on which you feel justified in adding to your quota of the stated number of drinks, such as a severe emotional upset, or the appointment to close the biggest deal of your career, or the audition you've been waiting for all your life, or the meeting with someone who is crucial to your future and of whom you are terrified. Absolutely no exceptions, or the test has been failed.
This is not an easy test, but it has been passed handily by any number of drinkers who wished to show themselves, or their families and friends, that they were not compulsive drinkers. If by any chance they failed the test, showing that they were alcoholics, they showed themselves, too, that they were, whether they were then ready to admit it openly or not. At least it prepared them for such an admission, and for the constructive action which normally follows that admission.
For a non alkie (my mother, for example) the hardest part of the test will being able to drink that MUCH and that OFTEN. For me, like I said earlier, there's noooooo way I'd get through a week without having more than the # I picked (and rest assured, I would choose 3 because that gives me the most alcohol.
)
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: PA
Posts: 27
The responses to this post have surprised me a bit. I must be a bit naive but I assumed an alcoholic was unable to control themselves if they had even one drink, but I see from the responses that some of you have been able to have a couple drinks for a time, until you spiraled back down. I feel I'm in somewhat the same boat. I can drink only a few at a time for a bit, then one weekend I'll find myself drunk, embarrassed, ashamed, hungover, and throwing up the next day. After I thought I had it all under control. I'd tell myself well I have to get back on the horse next weekend, and maybe I would for a weekend or so, then go back down again. Part of the problem has been that most of my friends drink the same way I do, so it was hard to see that my drinking was problematic, until I decided on my own. Now I'm doing the work to remind myself that it IS problematic and I don't want to keep living my life this way. I may lose some friends along the way but I have to find my way to a better life than this. I can't take the shame and guilt anymore.
Bubblehead I'm sorry this didn't have much to do with your post. I'm confused and overwhelmed with all of this right now, so I don't have answers for you. I think it's all in our own hearts. I wish you good luck in whatever you decide.
Bubblehead I'm sorry this didn't have much to do with your post. I'm confused and overwhelmed with all of this right now, so I don't have answers for you. I think it's all in our own hearts. I wish you good luck in whatever you decide.
Dismember
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The Mitten, USA
Posts: 1,641
I think the "unable to stop after one drink" is a little more figurative than literal, but still serves a good purpose in keeping alcoholics' minds in check. I myself use that phrase a lot when I get a bad urge. But I think more to my own experience is, "one is never enough."
I fried my brain when using. I cannot get the sensation other people get when they have a drink at the end of the day. Takes me about five to feel anything good or relaxing. So if I were to go back to my last drink of choice, vodka, having one drink would be nothing but swallowing some caustic nasty liquid for the heck of it--might as well take a shot of vinegar.
So for me to get the alcohol to function to reduce my anxiety-cravings and fulfill my habit, I have to continue drinking. And while five might get me just a little buzzed it kills my sense of inhibitions and good judgment as much as ever, and I will keep trying to push the buzz further and further until I run out or black out.
Moderation just leads me to the gates of satisfying a craving and then asks me to stop before it happens. It's like taking a trip to Disneyland and not getting out of the parking lot.
I fried my brain when using. I cannot get the sensation other people get when they have a drink at the end of the day. Takes me about five to feel anything good or relaxing. So if I were to go back to my last drink of choice, vodka, having one drink would be nothing but swallowing some caustic nasty liquid for the heck of it--might as well take a shot of vinegar.
So for me to get the alcohol to function to reduce my anxiety-cravings and fulfill my habit, I have to continue drinking. And while five might get me just a little buzzed it kills my sense of inhibitions and good judgment as much as ever, and I will keep trying to push the buzz further and further until I run out or black out.
Moderation just leads me to the gates of satisfying a craving and then asks me to stop before it happens. It's like taking a trip to Disneyland and not getting out of the parking lot.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by hope51 
The responses to this post have surprised me a bit. I must be a bit naive but I assumed an alcoholic was unable to control themselves if they had even one drink,
Heck, in my early 20's I had a case of Labatts in the fridge for close to a year..... plus a handful of 1/4 or 1/2 empty bottles of vodka, gin, whiskey, etc in a kitchen cabinet. My loss of control came over time.
While it's true that a lot of alcoholics have no control from their first drinking experience, not everyone is like that. I really don't recall EVER having just 1 drink (once I hit my late 20's to early 30's). There may have been a couple occasions where I had 2......or 3 (and the bar I went to poured 'em like tripes or quadruples......so 2 was really 6+) but anytime I had 2 or 3 at the bar and had to leave, I alllllllllways felt "cheated." If there was any way possible, I'd go have more. If I knew in advance I could only have 1 or 2, I'd usually choose to skip it altogether.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,237
I've tried it all too!! the controlled drinking never worked....some days I might have had only one or two...next time the entire liquor store!! there was no rhyme or reason behind it....How I came to terms with my alcoholism was how much my drinking was ruining my life....I've taken the alcohol away and BAM life is alot different.... A freedom I haven't known my entire adult life!! 
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Hi Bubblehead.
I do remember your posts from earlier, and I remember thinking at the time that you didn't sound particularly out of control and that your significant other sounded liek he was trying to control you by telling you bad things about your self. I am so glad that you are no longer in that relationship.
That said, I hope you choose not to try and drink again, mostly because I don't see why you would...you are happy without it, it serves no purpose, why bother? It's expensive and bad for you and could mess you up at some point down the line, regardless of whether or not you are an alcoholic now:-)
LaFemme!
I do remember your posts from earlier, and I remember thinking at the time that you didn't sound particularly out of control and that your significant other sounded liek he was trying to control you by telling you bad things about your self. I am so glad that you are no longer in that relationship.
That said, I hope you choose not to try and drink again, mostly because I don't see why you would...you are happy without it, it serves no purpose, why bother? It's expensive and bad for you and could mess you up at some point down the line, regardless of whether or not you are an alcoholic now:-)
LaFemme!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 522
Daytrader, I had to to smile when I was reading about that test you posted earlier. I was only amused because the idea of 3 drinks a day for an alcoholic, even if it is everyday, is laughable.
I know I'm an alcoholic. I wouldn't even be willing to undertake the test.
only 3 drinks? for a whole day? LOL. No chance for this alkie.
Thanks for the reminder,
-SD
I know I'm an alcoholic. I wouldn't even be willing to undertake the test.
only 3 drinks? for a whole day? LOL. No chance for this alkie.
Thanks for the reminder,
-SD
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,384
Hope51
for me, those times I could control myself (usually with a bad attitude and gritted teeth) was like the bait that kept me drinking...
if I'd been unable to control myself every single time I drank it probably would have been a lot easier to quit.
D
for me, those times I could control myself (usually with a bad attitude and gritted teeth) was like the bait that kept me drinking...
if I'd been unable to control myself every single time I drank it probably would have been a lot easier to quit.
D
High on Life
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Been to Hell and Back
Posts: 1,157
Maybe you need to drink a little bit more to prove it to yourself. I know I did.
Maybe you're not an alcoholic only you can answer that question. If I wanted to drink today I could limit myself to having just one, that's not a problem, in fact I used to do that all the time, but for me after a while that got boring and my real drinking behaviors would come out sporadically. I would be fine for 30-45 days for the most part and eventually I would be like screw this 1, 2, 3 drink crap.. 3 days later I would wake up out of my black out binge and try to fix all the havoc and destruction.
To me it's no fun if I have to be so cognizant about how much I'm going to drink. I recently went to a party and I was amazed about how slow people were drinking and they actually left a little in the glass. I laughed to myself, to me that is such a waste.
Seeing little things like this actually reinforces that I truly have an alcohol problem, and that it's not for me. Whether I continue to stay sober, well that will be something to be seen....
Maybe you're not an alcoholic only you can answer that question. If I wanted to drink today I could limit myself to having just one, that's not a problem, in fact I used to do that all the time, but for me after a while that got boring and my real drinking behaviors would come out sporadically. I would be fine for 30-45 days for the most part and eventually I would be like screw this 1, 2, 3 drink crap.. 3 days later I would wake up out of my black out binge and try to fix all the havoc and destruction.
To me it's no fun if I have to be so cognizant about how much I'm going to drink. I recently went to a party and I was amazed about how slow people were drinking and they actually left a little in the glass. I laughed to myself, to me that is such a waste.
Seeing little things like this actually reinforces that I truly have an alcohol problem, and that it's not for me. Whether I continue to stay sober, well that will be something to be seen....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 139
Originally Posted by LaFemme
Hi Bubblehead.
I do remember your posts from earlier, and I remember thinking at the time that you didn't sound particularly out of control and that your significant other sounded liek he was trying to control you by telling you bad things about your self. I am so glad that you are no longer in that relationship.
That said, I hope you choose not to try and drink again, mostly because I don't see why you would...you are happy without it, it serves no purpose, why bother? It's expensive and bad for you and could mess you up at some point down the line, regardless of whether or not you are an alcoholic now:-)
LaFemme!
I do remember your posts from earlier, and I remember thinking at the time that you didn't sound particularly out of control and that your significant other sounded liek he was trying to control you by telling you bad things about your self. I am so glad that you are no longer in that relationship.
That said, I hope you choose not to try and drink again, mostly because I don't see why you would...you are happy without it, it serves no purpose, why bother? It's expensive and bad for you and could mess you up at some point down the line, regardless of whether or not you are an alcoholic now:-)
LaFemme!
When I was drinking too much, it was to get rid of my anxiety. I am now in counseling for the anxiety, though I will say I haven't had much if at all since leaving that situation. Nor have I really had a desire to drink. Traditionally, I usually drank excessively only on my birthday or new years.
I had a long conversation with a friend who is a rehab nurse. Told him the whole nine yards. He does not believe I am an alcoholic but a problem drinker, as in I drink when I am upset. He was of the belief that if I stick to no more than three only very occassionally and never when I am upset, I'll be fine. I don't really WANT to drink is the thing. Its.. boring. Not fun anymore. Any positive memories I have of alcohol are kind of soiled by drinking in negative circumstances and that is kind of what I associate it with now.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 76
It doesn't matter if you think you're an alcohol or a drug addict or whatever else you want to call it. What's important is whether or not you want to stop what you're doing. There are all sorts of naysayers out there who will tell you that there is no "disease" of alcoholism or that "addiction" to marijuana is not possible. It doesn't matter. If YOU want to stop drinking, eating, smoking in an excessive way, then THAT'S what's important. Your decisions, not the labels others try to put on you.
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