LTrzczka

When it comes to knitting, I'm not so good. Seems easier to go to the store and buy a sweater, know what I mean? But I do try.

Ten0fnine

IMHO, I think you should worry less about this, and more about taking another first step in the right direction.

I don't "get it" either. But I also won't dispute it.

You have to do for yourself, using whatever tools you can find. If AA is a tool that helps you, fantastic. If not, then so be it.

Getting, and staying sober, seems to be much more easily achieved if it's a group effort. I think that's why AA is so heavily promoted. People just want you to be successful.

I'm lucky enough to have a support group, outside of AA, that are at this moment, willing to help me as I become a better person. I hope you have the same.

Here's to hoping for another "almost 2 weeks" of sobriety for you. It's better than the alternative.

yeahgr8

That was my point...it scared me from going for years and it turned out that i had AA completely wrong! In the end though i was so hopeless and desperate i went and just asked for help and got it...if you could see what i mean you would be out the house looking for a meeting right now...total freedom from the BS!

There are thousands of people that have a great life sober...beyond their wildest dreams so just saying next time you feeling a load of self pity and hopelessness remember there is a solution that you are choosing not to take...cos i remember trying to get a couple of weeks and couldnt over and over again, drove me crazy!!! But i literally didintbelieve there was a way out...there is though...mind you lots of people told me that along the way i was just too sick to hear it...almost killed me to get there lol

Ten0fnine

Ah, but the self-satisfaction of making it yourself, for yourself, is much more rewarding than simply buying something.

When you create something you put a piece of yourself into it... it then has meaning, and satisfaction. And that little bit of self-worth you feel when you accomplish something can go a long way towards moving forward.

Right now, you may feel you've failed, but you had more sober days than I have, so instead of a failure- I see someone who was almost there.

Keep trying. Please.

LTrzczka

Thank you for mentioning my "almost two weeks". Re group effort, I just can't accept that there is a man who lives in the sky who performs magic. If there was group who thought the same I would join right away. Until then I feel alone.... but SR has been a good thing for me... even if I mess up a lot. It does help.

LTrzczka

That's going to hapen to me if I don't change something.

yeahgr8

Sorry guys just one more thing...how is AA group support? This is another lot of bs about AA! The program of AA is get a sponsor, work the steps, get spiritual awakening (nothing to do with religion) and recover from alcoholism. I walked in the last time and found a sponsor that meeting and asked to get started...it works! This process is not group it is between you and another person.

Sure it does become a great place to go, meetings wise...you can get a home group and actually belong somewhere and make new friends...we've all been very lonely with this thing so thats cool but that is not the program of AA....

Suggestion LT...why not go to a few meetings, find soeone who seems happy and talks about a spiritual awakening, someone who has decade plus sobriety and ask them how they did it?!

I speak to a CBT counselor once a week, on skype now...ok we now spend the hour chit chatting about rubbish lol but i keep it going cos its nice to unload...hes 24 years sober and didnt do AA but he would say that you have to have face to face help to recover...you can get sober by yourself and live a life avoiding all situations involving alcohol (e.g. restaurants, birthdays, parties etc) but if you want to recover there is the option to do that...

I travel a lot and stay in Hotelsd, they have mini bars full of booze...i buy tins of diet coke from out of the Hotels (cheaper) and stack them on the booze, i dont have to get the booze removed and i dont even notice it...can you imagine that? And i was an everyday drinker at the end and am most definitely an alcoholic...

Ok no more info today i promise;-)

LTrzczka

I'll try, man. I'll try. Nothing else seems to work so what the hell...

Ten0fnine

This doesn't have to be about the Flying Spaghetti Monster. But it does have to be about you.

I don't understand religion, or God, or anything "spiritual" really. However, just because God doesn't speak to me personally, doesn't mean that I'm not going to work towards being a better person.

I'm trying to understand. And part of that is asking questions, and allowing people of different beliefs to impart their wisdom and their experiences. Sometimes "God" is mentioned, and that's fine. Not my cup of tea, but I'm happy for them.

It's all about finding a reason and the strength to do the hard things. You don't have to "accept" what others believe, but it would serve you well to at least listen, and not just automatically discount what they say because they mention the "magical man in the sky".

You'll get it, whatever "it" is, when you're ready to.

Ten0fnine

Hrm. So, you go to a "meeting", with several other people. That, by definition, is a "group".

Then people talk to the "group". And some members of the "group" choose to speak and share, again, with the "group".

And part of being in the "group" is knowing that you are not alone, and that there are many people who share your struggles, and therefore you gain strength from the "group".

And sometimes, the "group" repeats affirming things, such as the Serenity Prayer, together, as a "group".

And... how is it NOT a support "Group"?

LTrzczka

You nailed it. I need to get sober without his noodly influence. But I keep screwing up.

LTrzczka

Any group that prays can never help me be sober. I hope SR can help.. because nothing else is working.

yeahgr8

You gave the impression that it was a group effort for the individual to get sober...this is not true and its not group therapy as there is no feedback in the meetings, you can get that from a counselling group session though outside AA...

Alot of what you said is true but it is important to realise that it is not the group that keeps an individual sober...that would be crazy!

Most alcoholics die eventually of alcoholism so i also think telling someone that they will get it by magic at some point is at the very least irresponsible...do you have a suggestion for LT, can you share how you got sober...not having a pop but it would be helpful for him even in a pm:-)

EricL

Wow, you seem really convinced of what "won't" work for you.... good luck with that.

Hopefully at some point you'll be desperate enough to try what so many others are doing with success. Hopefully that time comes before you die of untreated alcoholism.

And no, AA most certainly is not a support group, anyone who has actually been a member can support that statement. We are a fellowship with a common goal, and we share our message of recovery. Its up to others to take it or leave it.

As far as the spirituality goes, its just that, spirituality. Nobody tells anyone what their conception of that word must mean. For some its the traditional christian god, for others its a more holistic view, and for others its simply the understanding that we are not god and we cannot get ourselves to stop drinking but there is some power out there that can.

Its a tough pill to swallow for people with egos like ours, but its better than dying drunk.

Good luck.

Ten0fnine

I quite honestly have no idea what you're saying.

I mean, of course I know that it's up to the individual to make the choices, but... the whole purpose of AA is to bring similar people together, as a support group, to help individuals gain strength and courage and to inspire sobriety. Having a "group" of people encouraging you can be quite powerful, and can definitely be a difference maker for some folks.

Agreed, which is why I would never say such a thing... ???

Sorry, it just seems we're reading two different things. /shrug

Ten0fnine

Wow. Ok. What am I missing here?

Can someone tell me what a "support group" is then, if it's not a supportive group of people?

At AA meetings, do you simply walk in, pick a sponsor off the shelf, and the two of you skulk away to do your own thing- independent of anything else that's going on?

I've been to one Alanon meeting in my life, and it was about 15 people, sitting around, talking to each other. Sharing stories. Comforting each other.

Suddenly AA seems even more convoluted than my initial impression of what it is. I hope I'm just misunderstanding.

[edit- I just Googled "AA support group" and I'm finding all across the Web, that AA is considered a "support group". I'm very confuzzled now because even the Wikipedia page for AA uses the term "group" over and over.]

Isaiah

It's semantics. I don't know how meetings work outside of my community but where I go there is a table, a person leads and asks first of all if anyone has any sobriety threatening issues they need to discuss, then we go on to anyone who needs help working a step, and down the line. To me, having someone sharing a troubling situation or asking for advice on a step is more or less "group therapy" with group feedback.

It's an aspect of AA that a lot of people I think get into AA to diminish their egos (a big part of AA) and end up transferring all that energy into AA itself. It's the Program that must be obsessed over, approved by all, the hub around which the universe revolves.

It may not mimic those you find in counseling centers, but it's a "support group." Sure.

Ten0fnine

Then what other definition of "support group" is being used, because I only know of one, and it's quite literally a "supporting group of people".

Ok. Thanks. I thought I was losing my mind.

So AA, in and of itself, becomes the Alpha and Omega? That people can only have identity through AA?

Isaiah

There is a lot of variation in how people take to AA. Some people I know go to meetings but don't bother with much else. There are other people who center their entire lives around the Big Book and AA.

Most people I've encountered fall somewhere in between, myself included. I have worked through all 12 steps and continue to do so. I have a sponsor. But just the same I still take a critical view of AA where I feel appropriate. I try to keep a somewhat detached view of it as well. There is a very small minority out there who would say that by being critical of AA I am "egotistical and self-willing and will drink myself to death someday." But I can accept that.

I find I get the most out of simply sharing, talking and listening within the group context. I get more out of that then I got from the steps. But that's at least one nice thing about AA. You really can get what works for you from it. There's no one to grade you or condemn you. So long as you play by some basic rules, AA is a great, open place to share with others.

Boleo

Most everybody I know, including myself, started off looking for alternative solutions other than AA. It was the "nothing else seems to work" dilemma that brought us all together.

Bad news - nothing else seems to work.
Good news- it works best for those who have tried everything else.