All Alcoholics are not Sociopaths
I got nothin'
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: My house.
Posts: 4,890
All Alcoholics are not Sociopaths
There is a big difference between a drunk and someone who is incapable of empathizing. Empathy isn't optional--you have it or you don't...you can't turn it on or off. I have the ability to empathize and I’ve always had it whether drinking or sober. Sociopaths have no empathy whatsoever no matter what the circumstances.
Conflating the two does nothing but foster unfounded stereotypes of an entire group of people--people who have a drinking addiction.
Conflating the two does nothing but foster unfounded stereotypes of an entire group of people--people who have a drinking addiction.
Belgian Sheepdog Adictee
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
What happened? Who would think such a thing?
I posted this response:
If you go to Dr William Silkworth's site, and read some of his other papers than the ones that were put in the Big Book under "The Doctor's Opinion" you will find that in several papers he wrote over the years, he mentions that alcoholism can 'mimic' many other mental illnesses.
As a recovering alcoholic for many years now, I can honestly say that during the 'practicing' of my disease I did exhibit signs of being a Sociopath, as have many of my sober alcoholic friends, however, I do not believe the percentage of sociopaths in alcoholics is any higher than in the general population.
As a matter of fact I believe it is less.
However, I can agree, that during the 'throes' of their drinking careers, alcoholics, at least some of them can exhibit traits common to a sociopath. They can also exhibit traits common to Bi-Polar, Chronic Depression, etc
Alcoholism can and does 'mimic' other 'mental illness.
J M H O from observation, discussion, and working with other alcoholics.
As a recovering alcoholic for many years now, I can honestly say that during the 'practicing' of my disease I did exhibit signs of being a Sociopath, as have many of my sober alcoholic friends, however, I do not believe the percentage of sociopaths in alcoholics is any higher than in the general population.
As a matter of fact I believe it is less.
However, I can agree, that during the 'throes' of their drinking careers, alcoholics, at least some of them can exhibit traits common to a sociopath. They can also exhibit traits common to Bi-Polar, Chronic Depression, etc
Alcoholism can and does 'mimic' other 'mental illness.
J M H O from observation, discussion, and working with other alcoholics.
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Alcoholism definitely does mimic many mental disorders, which is why a mental illness diagnosis is impossible while a person is actively drinking. It's certainly no big surprise that those of us who have lived or do live with active alcoholics would notice this.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
SR is here for peer support.....for medical diagnoses
please see a professional.
BTW....just because someone has an opinion
certainly does not mean it is true for you.
A recovered alcoholic who has never been a Sociopaths.....
please see a professional.
BTW....just because someone has an opinion
certainly does not mean it is true for you.
A recovered alcoholic who has never been a Sociopaths.....
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Dunno. I glanced briefly at that list posted. Manipulative, controlling, surface level charming, impulsive, etc. Kinda sounds like a pretty good description of my drinking days. It doesn't make me a sociopath, but it sure looks an awful like those traits.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
Hmm the description of someone showing sociopathic behaviour describes the alcoholic to a tee...sure some can recover and change...thats the good news:-)
As for the alcoholic they see things differently, in fact a saint hood would not do them justice as they storm through peoples lives like a hurricane...hmm just like a sociopath!
As for the alcoholic they see things differently, in fact a saint hood would not do them justice as they storm through peoples lives like a hurricane...hmm just like a sociopath!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Middle of MO
Posts: 666
I believe alcoholism has its own unique pathology, creating Jekyll and Hydes out of us. While in the throes of active addiction, there are almost no limits on our sick behaviors. Only through recovery can we hope to normalize.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,064
One of the things that I have found about dealing with addiction is that as a recovering addict is that I come across blanket generalizations about this illness. Even those of us that are plagued with this problem can't explain it. Nothing gets me going like a good sterotype. And then I have this immediate need to educate educate educate. But the empathetic, compassionate intelligent side of me realizes that people who have dealt first hand with "us" in our active addiction need to express their experience. We were difficult/insane when we were crazy in our addiction. But the folks that judge with statments like all horses are black, all cars run slow comments trigger my need to set the record straight at least about recovered alcoholics/addicts. I can't blame anybody for not approving lol of the way we were. And maybe all this need to educate is due to that fact that before my addiction I also was judgmental also uneducated and made snap uninformed judgments about how all recovered addicts and alcoholics behave behave and just "are". My eyes are opened because I've lived it, I had to experience it to understand I can't make uniformed opinion about anything anymore, it's helped me to be a more whole person to see both sides of things to not just assume.
I understand how Bam feels about blanket statements. I totally understand. And I don't have terminal uniqueness about my illness but each person might have an experience with different bottoms/lows during the illness just as people experience different bipolar/depression experiences.
I will continue I suppose to educate others on what this illness looks like and behaves like when it's in remission/recovery state. There may come a day when I cease to care how the world sees this problem, deals with a recovered addict/alcoholic because the aftermath of the labeling and the stigmas are very hard to deal with. I am sure as I continue to recover that I will grow into different attitudes about how this disease is labeled.
I understand how Bam feels about blanket statements. I totally understand. And I don't have terminal uniqueness about my illness but each person might have an experience with different bottoms/lows during the illness just as people experience different bipolar/depression experiences.
I will continue I suppose to educate others on what this illness looks like and behaves like when it's in remission/recovery state. There may come a day when I cease to care how the world sees this problem, deals with a recovered addict/alcoholic because the aftermath of the labeling and the stigmas are very hard to deal with. I am sure as I continue to recover that I will grow into different attitudes about how this disease is labeled.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
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Well, I checked out the traits for a Sociopath and even at my worst point in my drinking I can't say that it described me (lack of empathy...hello I cry at commercials...lol). While drinking I suffered from a deep depression that has lifted since getting sober and working on myself and which I hope will never resurface. I think what Still Waters said about the inability to accurately diagnos mental illness in an active alcoholic because alcoholism confuses the issue is probably the closest one should get to making a blanket statement about alcoholics and mental illness.
I think blanket statements and stereotypes are harmful and dangerous.
I think blanket statements and stereotypes are harmful and dangerous.
AAudrey
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 209
It says in the Drs. Opinion; there are many DIFFERENT types of alcoholics. MANY; if you choose to read the Big Book; you would know that, so get reading; because it sets forth all of the different types of alcoholics in many of the chapters; e.g., TO WIVES. THE DRS. OPINION (in fact, the 12 and 12 was specifically for the "BILL W." type of alcoholic. (emotion over intellect) and the DR. BOB type (intellect over emotion). If we are emotion in our natural state, then you are a Bill W type and it takes time to figure that out.
Give TIME TIME and KCB
Defensive and guarded is our natural state.
xo
Give TIME TIME and KCB
Defensive and guarded is our natural state.
xo
High on Life
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Been to Hell and Back
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Originally Posted by laurie6781 
I believe this thread may have been triggered by a thread in the F&F of Alcoholics forum, where the traits for a Sociopath were listed and just how many of those traits the co dependents see in their practicing alcoholics.
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No offense, IMHO leave that stuff over there and let them debate that crap if it makes them happy. If they want to go around comparing alcoholics to sociopaths, by all means let them. To be honest many of of the mental disorders overlap, so what, each one has there own set criteria. It's already spelled out in the DSM. What is to be gained by asking "Are Alcoholics really sociopaths"?? How is this helping their recovoery? This is a recovery and support forum right??
Whatever, this too shall pass
AAudrey
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 209
Further, a good sponsor will ask questions to make that determination, more specifically it simply means that YOU EITHER HAVE A CONCIOUS or YOU DONT.
Also where it states, there are those too with grave emotional disorders, but many of them do recover IF THEY have the capacity to be honest.
SOME AA members use that as a loop hole, those who DON'T DO THE WORK, who invariably RELAPSE.
Open mindedness is STEP 1. and we need it every day.
there is a lot of defensiveness goin on in this thread IMHO
Also where it states, there are those too with grave emotional disorders, but many of them do recover IF THEY have the capacity to be honest.
SOME AA members use that as a loop hole, those who DON'T DO THE WORK, who invariably RELAPSE.
Open mindedness is STEP 1. and we need it every day.
there is a lot of defensiveness goin on in this thread IMHO
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 64
I agree with TheEnd, unless you've been in active addiction yourself you really can't judge or have an opinion of the hell that we go through.
I do understand the need to "understand" why we do what we do in their own way, if that means placing a "sociopath" label on alcoholics so be it. Do I consider myself a sociopath? Heck no, not even on one of my worst down in the gutter binges...
I do understand the need to "understand" why we do what we do in their own way, if that means placing a "sociopath" label on alcoholics so be it. Do I consider myself a sociopath? Heck no, not even on one of my worst down in the gutter binges...
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
many different opinions here & there....
I wouldn't begin to pretend I can put a big blanket label on other's behavior and feelings both here or in real time....but it makes for a lively argument this Wednesday.
I like peer support and reenforcement to help me, i dislike finger pointing and generalization.
and you know what they say about opinions.....they are like>>>>>>holes, everybody has one.
I wouldn't begin to pretend I can put a big blanket label on other's behavior and feelings both here or in real time....but it makes for a lively argument this Wednesday.
I like peer support and reenforcement to help me, i dislike finger pointing and generalization.
and you know what they say about opinions.....they are like>>>>>>holes, everybody has one.
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