AcceptingChange

I visited my uncle in the physical rehabilitation home. He's a mess. He sat there with his glasses askew, his jaw dropped, and barely able to concentrate. He was in a different mental zone than me and my dad. We didn't do too much talking. He's been in this place for 3 months.

Flashback 12 months ago, when he was actively drinking, but not connecting with other people. He'd lost the ability to concentrate from 4+ decades of 12+ oz each night. He'd start staring at the clock at 2:00pm, get really anxious around 4.30pm, and a 5:00pm, he'd fill a 16oz tumbler with ice and J&B, then never stop. He'd wake up early and exercise, then go to church service. But, he didn't talk to people, just sort of zoned out, in his own world.

Flash back 12+ years ago, when he liked to talk, but was a bit too loud, a bit too confident, and always had 80proof scotch running through his blood.

I'm amazed at how much he's changed since this rehab. He's had to withdraw from the nightly booze, and his mind is misfiring. But to see how much he's changed, ugh, it really stirs the butterflies in my stomach. Especially when i compare his rapid mental decline to that of other older folks who abstain, and are still mentally strong, just dealing with the usual body slowness.

Yet so many people active drinkers in my family think it's "just him". They keep drinking. And he always thought other alcoholics were "just them".
We all hear about denial, so it's just a cliche. But when i actually see it at work in my life, in me and in people around me, it hits quite hard.

The only rational, logical, truthful way we can measure ourselves as alcoholics or not, is to follow the standards put together by the American Medical Association:

men up to age 65 years
– No more than four drinks on any one day AND
– No more than 14 drinks in a week
women up to age 65 years
– No more than three drinks on any one day AND
– No more than seven drinks in a week
men and women over age 65 years
– No more than one drink on any one day
Link to AMA Action Plan for Alcoholics
http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upl...l_drinking.pdf

If we can't follow those guidelines (i cannot), then we're alcoholic.
And if we re-set the bar, we are like anorexics who say they are fat because they see a fat person in the mirror. Instead, they should weight themselves and use that measure, not their own mental perception.


So can we learn from the older folks before us who have not quit, who refuse to admit to anyone that they drink too much, yet have a rapid decline that sets in 10 or 20 years before other healthy males? Or do we still feel that "i'm not an alcoholic, but i certainly know a lot of them."

LaFemme

I'm so sorry about your uncle..that's really hard.

I have that in my family as well. My favorite uncle went into a swift decline when the drinking hit the tipping point. The family blames his decline in part on the mini-strokes he has had more than on the alcohol. I also havecan alcoholic aunt and her son is following in her steps. The saddest thing is he sees what they are doing to themselves and he doesn't see he is doing the same thing. Well, if he does, he's not sharing with me.

I think people can learn from each other. I think education about what alcoholism is is important. Too many people still see it as the poor, homeless guy begging for change. You know how I know this is true? Pay attention to how we introduce ourselves here. The vast majority of us make sure to point out how high functioning we are.

So yes I think we can learn from each other which is why I think it is important to speak up about the disease.

CarolD

Sorry to know of your Uncle's decline....
Several AA members I know have lasting
effects from their past drinking years ago.


Those AMA guidelines are a bit higher than the ones
by CDC.....which is 2 daily for men...1 for women.
But....sadly.....active alcoholics often ignore facts.

TheEnd

What exactly is he suffering from??? Is his slow decline due to his drinking or other factors, because I have seen people drink for years and I don't know anyone with those symptoms.

Anyway to answer your question. Can we learn from others?? This person can't, I wish I would of been smart enough to apply what I have seen other peolpe go through to my life, but I just can't function like that. I couldn't even apply to what I have already been through to my own life, that's why I have 2 DUIs now.

And I don't think most people learn from other people's mistakes, if that's what you're asking, because we always think it won't happen to me I will be different.

AlcoholicOrNot

AC,

I'm sorry to hear about your uncle.

I can relate since I have similar examples from my side of the family - namely, my grandfather and father.

Can we learn from others before us? I hate to answer with yes & no but it's more appropriate than selecting one over the other.

I hope what I'm about to say makes sense since I truly believe it to be the case. At least from my perspective.

Yes, we can learn from others if we're receptive and believe we'll benefit from our new-found knowledge in one way or another. For example, once I determined alcohol had become a problem in my life, I wanted to learn as much as I could about alcohol's affects on the mind / body so I could take the appropriate steps to address the problem. As a result, I've benefited from learning and visiting this site - today I'm 94 days abstinent

Before I recognized I had a problem with alcohol, no, I could not learn from alcoholics before me - including every one of my family members still living!
What would I have learned? I would have thought, those poor unfortunate souls had issues with alcohol. I don't have an alcohol problem, everything's fine with me - as I would crack another beer and down another shot.

Through long drawn out self-examination (25+ years), I'd come to the realization that alcohol had an extremely strong grip on my life. Throughout all those years of hanging out with other alcoholics including my closest family members, I had learned nothing.

It's been an extremely humbling experience for me. It has forced me to focus on other aspects of my life and to essentially change my identity. Change is ongoing.

Thanks for listening.

Boleo

In psychology it is known as vicarious learning. In recovery circles we call it "scouting out the territory".

sampar

Sorry to hear about your Uncle
Being an alcoholic in recovery my self & having many active alkies in my family, for me seeing them almost "wet Brains" didnt bother me, i could justify any situation, as in "Oh that will never happen to me" if something interfered with my drinking i didnt want to know about it. I was very aware of how many units a week were safe but i didnt care i had to have my drink. As i have been told my bottom of the barrel, wouldnt be enough to keep any one else sober, but it was enough for me to get help.
I always like to think all of us drunks, can never compare our selves or judge others as we all came from the gutter, we didnt end up in AA or rehab because our lives were fantastic!!!

AcceptingChange

thanks for all the thought-filled responses. i guess i'm not the only one who sees the same suffering that alcohol causes in their family. when i was visiting my uncle, i was talking to my cousin/his son. and we did talk about alcoholism. and he started the topic by saying something like "our family has a genetic disposition to alcoholism". and instantly, i picked it up, wanting to talk about it. And i said "It sure does, on all sides of our family. On our dad's side (we're sons of brothers) and on our mom's side. My mom's dad died of alcohol when my mom was in her teens. His mom's mom was alcoholic. " It's ripped through our family like a tornado. Or, maybe not like a tornado, that's too dramatic. It's not loud and fast. It's more like a cancer. Quiet, slow and steady in it's progress. I guess people noticed i stopped drinking cuz it's all ginger ale and coffee for me. I didn't tell anyone i figured out i'm alcoholic except my wife and sisters and everyone who reads what i write here. Of course, they probably knew i was an alcoholic, cuz i did drink, like everyone. And i always thought they were the alkies and i'm not. And they probably think i'm the alkie and they're not. They're half right.
i've been reading and writing on this board for about 3 years. And it's helped me a lot. If you are or are not actively drinking, please keep coming and writing here. If alcohol is a part of your life, you can't find a better group of wise and experienced people than here.

Nevertheless

When I was drinking, I knew what I was doing was very bad for me. It was the same way with smoking. Smoking didn't make me do or say stupid things. But in both cases, when I started I was young, and felt immortal. I guess I did manage to quit both before any major health problems occurred. I think smoking has taken more toll on people I know than alcoholism. But I also know a lot more smokers than alcoholics.
But to answer your question as to can we learn from others.
My answer is YES. But I also believe what matters is if we care enough about living or not. When I was younger, I didn't care because i was immortal. But as I got older,and realized I wasn't superman. I really started to pay attention to health concerns. My observation is you are a whole lot better off if you don't need medical attention in the first place. Which is also why I now attend a gym. That 30 dollars a month isn't a spit in the river compared to seeing a doctor all the time. Just my ramblings.
Fred

stugotz

Smart men learn from their mistakes, wise men learn from the mistakes of others.