Notices

Degrees of Alcoholism

Old 09-07-2010, 10:35 AM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
AlcoholicOrNot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 160
Degrees of Alcoholism

Hi Folks,

It will be 51 days without a drink today!

Reading these posts has intrigued me so much that I've started doing a little research on the side.

Depending on the source, 15% of people who drink alcohol become alcoholics.

For discussion sake, let's line up 100 alcohol-drinking people from 1 - 100. Person number 85 has entered the "pool" of alcoholism whereas person number 1 very seldom drinks. This could act as a rating scheme.

According to online tests and how well I know myself, I can picture myself at or around number 83. How do I know?

Recently, I've realized (thru reading this forum and online research) that people who are in the "pool of alcoholics (85 - 100) DO NOT have willpower to stop drinking since for all intents and purposes, alcoholism is a disease and willpower alone will not cure the disease.

That's why for some, including myself, willpower works. I have not (yet anyway) contracted the disease of alcoholism and have in the process answered my username-implied question. I truly was not sure.

Nevertheless, if I continued to drink, I could easily move up a few spaces in the rating and then would be powerless once I entered the pool.

I still do not feel comfortable drinking and frequently question myself by asking, "Why drink?". There are no good reasons to drink and hence the reason why I am 51 days without.

For those of you in the pool, please keep up the good work, be persistent and continue seeking support from this site.

Thanks for reading.
AlcoholicOrNot is offline  
Old 09-07-2010, 11:42 AM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Che
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 273
I think this is simplifying things a lot. Still, I wish you good luck in continued sobriety. Your mettle will be tested at every national holiday, so summer is a good warm up round for anyone who wants to quit, in my opinion.

I think there is a certain degree of elitism in 'how bad my alcoholism is' that I don't like. Each person has his or her own needs. When it's said alcoholism is a disease, I think it is more meant that it is a physical dependency for some people, which can make it dangerous to quit without medical help. Still, I don't think there's any substance that is impossible to quit. The idea of willpower more comes in from people who think that they can control how much they drink, not that they can stop drinking completely. An alcoholic's brain is often affected differently by alcohol, thus making this a vulnerability. However, a sober alcoholic can always choose not to drink. This is what I believe.
Che is offline  
Old 09-07-2010, 11:44 AM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Member
 
lildawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Between Serenity and Despair
Posts: 522
I'm glad SR was helpful to you, AlcoholicorNot.

Something I'd like to add to what you said is this: I know I'm an alcoholic because I drink to get drunk. I don't want to moderate. Why should I have 2 drinks when I could have 200? When I think about relapsing, I don't think about just having a drink or two. I think about getting braying sh!tfaced and how much fun that would be. It wouldn't matter if I drank once a month, once a year, or once a day. I'd still get drunk every single time I picked up a bottle. It's a scary picture, but it's the real me.
lildawg is offline  
Old 09-07-2010, 12:15 PM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Member
 
LaFemme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Hmmm, I've read that with enough exposure anyone can change their physical make-up in order to become an alcoholic. In the same way that anyone can get cancer if exposed to enough toxins. Some people are more resistant to the disease than others.

Who really cares?

I had a problem with alcohol, I don't have one today, if I started drinking again I would have a problem again pretty quickly. I think that could describe people anywhere north of 65+ in your scenario.
LaFemme is offline  
Old 09-07-2010, 01:12 PM
  # 5 (permalink)  
High on Life
 
TheEnd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Been to Hell and Back
Posts: 1,157
AlcoholicOrNOt you may not be a serious alcoholic but that doesn't mean you don't have alcoholism, just like someone who gets cancer doesn't go straight to a Hospice. It's a progressive disease.

Anyway, whatever works for you works, so congratulations on your 51 days....
TheEnd is offline  
Old 09-07-2010, 01:18 PM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
AlcoholicOrNot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by lildawg View Post
I'm glad SR was helpful to you, AlcoholicorNot.

I know I'm an alcoholic because I drink to get drunk. I don't want to moderate. Why should I have 2 drinks when I could have 200?
Yes Lildawg. I'm the same way. Can't just have one. But I have to drink until there's nothing left to drink.
AlcoholicOrNot is offline  
Old 09-07-2010, 01:27 PM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 395
I think alcoholism is better classified as a substance use disorder as classified by the DSM-IV.
BehaveNet® Clinical Capsule™: Substance Dependence

I also believe that a personal desire (i.e. willpower) is essential to overcoming alcoholism. It may require help or it may not. Some can combat this on their on while others cannot. Nonetheless, sobriety is for alcoholics who want it, not need it. There are plenty who need it, but never get sober.

Perhaps, you are not an alcoholic. Only you can say. However, you are choosing abstinence and are posting on this forum. Maybe you are a problem drinker that has the occasional control issue and his drinking has led to some negative consequences in life or maybe not. Perhaps, you never experienced waking up one day and being so resolved to stop drinking, then the hamsters start running around their wheel in your head. The next thing you know, you are drinking, even despite your best intentions. And every drinks keeps that mental obsession going.

If you have control over that, then more power to you. I certainly don't. The only thing I have any control over is staying away from the first drink and sometimes that requires help. Initially, that required a boatload of help.

I have no problem saying that I am a pickle and realizing that I will never be a cucumber again.

Regardless, Congratulations on your 51 days! That is most excellent!!!
Antiderivative is offline  
Old 09-07-2010, 02:36 PM
  # 8 (permalink)  
12-Step Recovered Alkie
 
DayTrader's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by AlcoholicOrNot View Post
Recently, I've realized (thru reading this forum and online research) that people who are in the "pool of alcoholics (85 - 100) DO NOT have willpower to stop drinking since for all intents and purposes, alcoholism is a disease and willpower alone will not cure the disease.

That's why for some, including myself, willpower works. I have not (yet anyway) contracted the disease of alcoholism and have in the process answered my username-implied question. I truly was not sure.

Nevertheless, if I continued to drink, I could easily move up a few spaces in the rating and then would be powerless once I entered the pool.
I hear plenty of ppl who say they "felt" alcoholic (looking back at it) from the first drink. I hear others (myself included) who drank quite socially and moderately for years......then all heII broke loose. At the end (for the last couple years), I was NOT able to stop or control it every time anymore. I was getting progressively worse, my drinking was getting more frequent, I consistently over-shot the mark I was looking for (how buzzed I planned to get), I'd "find myself" drinking almost like it was an out-of-body experience (not really but that's the best way I can describe it), I'd resolve over and over "not tonight Michael....prove it to yourself this ONE time" ...and I stick to quitting......up until I'd change my mind and decide tonight wasn't a good night to be proving it to myself (maybe within minutes of my resolution to stop).

The guilt and shame that followed was what did me in. I wanted to be able to control it soooooooo bad.......but my real life experience was that I never really did anymore. I had crossed that line somewhere in the previous several years and I couldn't go back. I either had to stop (which I knew I couldn't from past experience) or I'd absolutely drink myself to death.......guaranteed (although I wouldn't have agreed with that at the time.... I always held out hope that I'd get it reigned in someday). If I didn't die in the process of trying to control it.... and I couldn't get it under control......I was ready to just end the whole stupid game and off myself.

That's why you'll hear, typically from ppl in the AA crowd, that willpower may NOT work, give up on it, and consider what we did. For many of us, we tried that game and lost YEARS of our lives in that viscous circle of trying to stop/slow down and failing over and over. Ppl take it as being "negative" and "unsupportive" when the opposite is the reality.....it's meant to save someone else from losing as much time as we did fighting a losing battle and/or to save themselves from getting to the point where if they fail ONCE MORE, it's blow-yer-brains-out time.

The medical community admittedly knows very little about alcoholism so I don't get hung up on where I fall on the Jellinek Chart (even today, several years sober, the first thing I want to do is circle all the things that DIDN'T happen to me when I was drinking....lol), whether it's a disease because it meets the qualifications according to the AMA or whether that move was pressured by the insurance industry.......bla bla bla... it's all white noise and I don't care. I'm an alcoholic for the rest of my life and I can choose to live in the disease and die or I can stay involved in the only solution that works for an alcoholic of my type - a solution from a power greater than myself.

It's nobody's place to say where or what you are. Besides..... would it really matter anyway? We all make and made our own calls along the way. Keep and eye on yourself and try to be more honest with yourself about this garbage than you've ever been before. Alcoholism is a nasssty way to die and it kills like it's nobody's business.
DayTrader is offline  
Old 09-07-2010, 03:02 PM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
I know a few heavy drinkers that drank more than me for years! They all quit for various reasons...navy said enough is enough quit drinking or we kick you out...birth of a new child...just grew up i guess?!

One thing i will say though non of them would have questioned if they were an alcoholic and certainly wouldn't come to a sober recovery forum...i think those 2 actions speak volumes IMO...but if you can do it on willpower great...i could only manage up to a year on willpower and then i always ended up drinking again and before i knew it starting off on day 1 again!
yeahgr8 is offline  
Old 09-07-2010, 03:07 PM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
 
CarolD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Hmm...
Perhaps we should consider....

How We Get Addicted - TIME

For me...I never knew what day or which drink
slid me into alcoholism.
I was danceing thru life...then Zap!
depression became my daily companion.
Had absolutely nothing to do with exernal forces
everything to do with the liquid toxin..alcohol.

AN...I'm pleased SR helped you decide.
All my best
CarolD is offline  
Old 09-07-2010, 03:33 PM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: AA Rooms
Posts: 268
A clinical diagnosis - Situational Drinker

Hope this helps. It's not a sob story just bear with me.

In 1989 I had a below-knee amputation, I drank and drank and drank. I was hospitalised after a suicide attempt two years later because I was in the throes of alcohol withdrawal and hadn't a notion what was wrong with me. I thought I was losing my mind and just wanted it over.

I was admitted to a psychiatric hospital and rehab centre and put on the alcohol programme. The shrink and my counsellor and my group counsellor said I was a "situational drinker"

"A situational drinker is someone who develops a dependance on alcohol as a result of a loss, death, injury or illness." (Not sure of the exact wording)

The shrink told me to stay off the drink for a year and always watch myself with drink as I had the potential to become an alcoholic. I didn't follow his advice and here I am 19 years later starting my AA journey. I was seen by another shrink recently, three on the same team actually, and the consultant said you ARE an alcoholic.

That is where heavy drinking can lead you.

Annette
MaryAnn100 is offline  
Old 09-07-2010, 03:37 PM
  # 12 (permalink)  
A work in progress
 
LexieCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I went through the whole "am I or am I not" debate recently, and I concluded I'm "close enough for government work". For all intents and purposes I am an alcoholic. I may have had an easier time stopping drinking than some people (once I surrendered my personal battle with it), but I know in my case it had been, and was continuing to, progress.

I feel I need more than simply quitting drinking in order to live a whole, happy life, and to ensure that I never succumb to the lure of drinking again.

Ultimately, we each have to decide for ourselves what is needed to recover. What's most important for that, I think, is to be totally honest with ourselves about our relationship to alcohol.
LexieCat is offline  
Old 09-07-2010, 03:47 PM
  # 13 (permalink)  
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
 
CarolD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Several members mentioned progression....
Here's how alcoholism typically progresses:

SOCIAL DRINKERS — Most Americans are characterized as social drinkers. Statistics indicate, however, that one of every 16 drinkers will become alcoholic.

WARNING SIGNS — The individual begins to drink more frequently and more than his associates. He drinks for confidence or to tolerate or escape problems. No party or other occasion is complete without a couple of drinks. Driving and drinking become routine.

EARLY ALCOHOLISM — With increasing frequency, the individual drinks too much. "Blackouts," or temporary amnesia, occur during or following drinking episodes. He drinks more rapidly than others, sneaks drinks and in other ways conceals the quantity that he drinks. He resents any reference to his drinking habits.

BASIC ALCOHOLISM — The individual begins to lose control as to the time, place and amount of his drinking. He gets drunk unintentionally. He hides and protects his liquor supply. He drinks to overcome the hangover from his prior drinking. He tries new patterns of drinking as to time and place of drinking. He attempts cures by moving to new locations or by changing his drinking companions.

CHRONIC ALCOHOLISM — The individual becomes a loner in his drinking. He develops alibis, excuses and rationalizations to cover up or explain his drinking. Personality and behavior changes occur that affect all relationships — family, employment, community. Extended binges, physical tremors, hallucinations and delirium, complete rejection of social reality, malnutrition with accompanying illness and disease and early death all occur as chronic alcoholism progresses.


Source: American Medical Association
CarolD is offline  
Old 09-07-2010, 04:55 PM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
AlcoholicOrNot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 160
Thank you all! Yes, I think I need to be honest with myself. Quite frankly, I may be in denial and looking to justify why I can have a drink - soon. Coincidentally, my wife mentioned how the annual "World Beer Festival" is coming next month. I've been to the previous 7 drinking frenzies and perhaps I'm looking for a reason, any reason, to attend.

Every day is a test....everywhere I look, there's alcohol....people joking about buying a round...
AlcoholicOrNot is offline  
Old 09-07-2010, 05:09 PM
  # 15 (permalink)  
12-Step Recovered Alkie
 
DayTrader's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Heh..... we're tricky little suckers, aren't we? LOL

Good for you AON. An open mind is important regardless of whether you're an alkie or not.

DayTrader is offline  
Old 09-08-2010, 01:43 AM
  # 16 (permalink)  
Member
 
Cottonwoodchris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lomita, California
Posts: 200
I knew I had read this some where: gamma-Aminobutyric acid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Alcohol affects this GABA receptor in the brain.
"alcohol affects the gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) receptors, to produce a depressant (neurochemical inhibitory) effect. Alcohol is similar to other sedative-hypnotics such as barbiturates and benzodiazepines both in its effect on the GABAA receptor although its pharmacological profile is not identical. It has anxiolytic, anticonvulsant, hypnotic and sedative actions similar to many other sedative-hypnotic drugs. Alcohol is also cross-tolerant with benzodiazepines and barbiturates.[51]"

This is not the exact article I read which went on to say the GABA receptors inhibit the seratonin levels. When the alcohol is taken away, the body just goes berzerk. Therefor, to me, it's not a disease. It's a dependency, like the others have said.

As for varying degrees, for me it' was 100%. Couldn't function without several drinks every day. Not any more. Day 6 and counting!

EDIT: here's a little better description:http://www.neurogenesis.com/Neurosci...addictions.php (yes, been doing homework on my "resting" days off)

EDIT2: possible cure? http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/effect/a/blscr040304.htm
Cottonwoodchris is offline  
Old 09-08-2010, 03:38 AM
  # 17 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
AlcoholicOrNot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by LaFemme View Post
Hmmm, I've read that with enough exposure anyone can change their physical make-up in order to become an alcoholic. In the same way that anyone can get cancer if exposed to enough toxins. Some people are more resistant to the disease than others.

Who really cares?

I had a problem with alcohol, I don't have one today, if I started drinking again I would have a problem again pretty quickly. I think that could describe people anywhere north of 65+ in your scenario.
LaFemme,

I could always count on you for some well-thought out feedback. You're absolutely right! Perhaps a troublesome rating is even below 65!

An alcohol problem no matter how early in the process, is still a problem. Besides, am I supposed to be content rating myself an 83?

Thanks.
AlcoholicOrNot is offline  
Old 09-08-2010, 03:44 AM
  # 18 (permalink)  
Member
 
kiki5711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,288
Originally Posted by CarolD View Post
Several members mentioned progression....
I went through all those steps till I hit bottom. Started drinking at 7am for breakfast.
And to my suprise, I couldn't stop!
Oh, it snuck up on me, it sure did. Now I'm wondering how many other people on the road, driving are doing the same thing I use to do. It's not a good feeling.
kiki5711 is offline  
Old 09-08-2010, 03:53 AM
  # 19 (permalink)  
Member
 
LaFemme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Liking, I think you have a good point. To use AONs rating system, just because you are a 50 doesn't mean you aren't headed for an eventual 100...we all know its a progressive disease after all...and at one point we were all a lot lower on the scale.

If I ever have kids I am going to encourage them never to start. I am actually writing a mini-memoir of my drinking life for that purpose.
LaFemme is offline  
Old 09-08-2010, 08:50 PM
  # 20 (permalink)  
oak
Member
 
oak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 861
Reading this thread was so helpful for me.
oak is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:11 AM.