Need advice on a newcomer I meet tonight, shes on klonopin
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Need advice on a newcomer I meet tonight, shes on klonopin
I only have 90 days, got my chip tonight. Theres an AAer that I see 4 or 5 times a week at my home meeting. She has approx 60 days sober and tonight she was complaning about feeling like shes going mad. Then she mentioned she was on klonopin. When she said klonopin, I about started crying for her. I went through the klonoin problem about 1-1/2 years ago and I know how bad it can mess your mind up.
My question to the group here is, Is it okay for me to talk to her about this matter. I dont want to freak her out, however, I know that if she keeps taking klonopin she will never get sobriety. If she was willing, I could help her taper off it. I have plenty experience in tapering off it. Ive helped a few others get off of it as I did myself. Is it okay for me to offer my service? I dont want the old timers getting pissed at me and I dont want to freak her out.
Thanks,
Michael
My question to the group here is, Is it okay for me to talk to her about this matter. I dont want to freak her out, however, I know that if she keeps taking klonopin she will never get sobriety. If she was willing, I could help her taper off it. I have plenty experience in tapering off it. Ive helped a few others get off of it as I did myself. Is it okay for me to offer my service? I dont want the old timers getting pissed at me and I dont want to freak her out.
Thanks,
Michael
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I wouldn't. First of all, you have 90 days, she's a newcomer. Let the women help her.
Second, unless you are an M.D., you have no business counseling her on her medications, let alone helping her withdraw from them. You don't know that it's the klonopin that is her problem. There's an AA pamphlet that cautions against any member of AA giving medical advice about medications that another member is taking, should take, or shoudn't take.
Second, unless you are an M.D., you have no business counseling her on her medications, let alone helping her withdraw from them. You don't know that it's the klonopin that is her problem. There's an AA pamphlet that cautions against any member of AA giving medical advice about medications that another member is taking, should take, or shoudn't take.
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Thanks for the quick reply. I need to read that phamplet.
I just feel sorry for her. The Dr.s dont know **** about Klonopin and they have people on tranqulizers for years. They affect the same as alcohol does, the GABBA receptors. I wish I had someone come up to me when I thought I was lossing my mind and help me. I got lucky and came across a board on the internet that helped, Thanks God. I mean, this stuff about made me do things that wouldnt had been cool at all to myself.
Anyhow, thanks so much. I wont say anything to her.
I just feel sorry for her. The Dr.s dont know **** about Klonopin and they have people on tranqulizers for years. They affect the same as alcohol does, the GABBA receptors. I wish I had someone come up to me when I thought I was lossing my mind and help me. I got lucky and came across a board on the internet that helped, Thanks God. I mean, this stuff about made me do things that wouldnt had been cool at all to myself.
Anyhow, thanks so much. I wont say anything to her.
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Here's the pamphlet, Michael. You can read it online, or print it out if you want: The AA Member--Medications and Other Drugs. It has stories of AA members who used medications, including psychiatric medications, appropriately and inappropriately.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat 
Here's the pamphlet, Michael. You can read it online, or print it out if you want: The AA Member--Medications and Other Drugs. It has stories of AA members who used medications, including psychiatric medications, appropriately and inappropriately.
Thanks! Im gonna read it now.
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Thank you Carol, Dee, and Lexiecat. Each of you gave wonderful and sound advice.
Coming from the perspective of a recovering alcoholic who also has bipolar disorder, PTSD leading to a chronic anxiety disorder these types of threads worry me. It is too easy to judge someone when we do not walk in their shoes. Before I quit drinking and had to face the mental health issues without the self medication of alcohol I would have said anyone who takes an anti-anxiety medication is misguided to say the least and I have been a medical professional for nearly 20 years now. Today I know that my sobriety is dependent upon many factors and yes ensuring I am using medication only as prescribed and as needed.
I am prescribed klonopin but I do take it only as a last resort and as prescribed. The anxiety I get is crippling, it leaves me unable to talk on the phone, interact with others, leave my home, etc... That includes attending meetings of alcoholics anonymous which I need to maintain my sobriety. One thing I do make sure of though is when I have taken a klonopin before a meeting is I make a point to pass when asked to share. I do this not because I feel I am wrong or less sober for taking the medication but rather out of respect for Alcoholics Anonymous and the group. I only started taking medication after years of trying to fight through these mental health issues with Alcoholics Anonymous alone. I could not figure out why I was still crazy despite working the program and applying it to every aspect of my life. My life got better but the ups and downs of bipolar disorder and the anxiety, nightmares, and flashbacks of PTSD were not relieved by the program of AA. It was only when I accepted the fact that there are some issues Alcoholics Anonymous was not designed to fix, that I was able to seek and obtain the outside help I need. Alcoholics Anonymous was designed as a program to help Alcoholics find and remain sober. It is not about drugs or mental health but about alcohol.
I realize that there are those that have had bad experience with medications in and out of the program of AA. Each person is different what is a problem for one may not be a problem for another. I keep in close contact with my sponsor and my doctor regarding the medications I take and why I take them. I do not rely on my psych doc to cure my alcoholism and I do not rely on AA to cure my mental health issues. I need to treat them separately. But that is my experience others have their own to share. I am sure there are those that will think less of me and my sobriety for my posting this but to them I can only say I have no need for sobriety if I do not properly treat my mental health issues because without treating those I would be dead. Just as if I do not treat my alcoholism treating my mental health issues would not be necessary because I would be dead. They go hand in hand for me and as such have to be treated simultaneously with the appropriate therapies for each.
Coming from the perspective of a recovering alcoholic who also has bipolar disorder, PTSD leading to a chronic anxiety disorder these types of threads worry me. It is too easy to judge someone when we do not walk in their shoes. Before I quit drinking and had to face the mental health issues without the self medication of alcohol I would have said anyone who takes an anti-anxiety medication is misguided to say the least and I have been a medical professional for nearly 20 years now. Today I know that my sobriety is dependent upon many factors and yes ensuring I am using medication only as prescribed and as needed.
I am prescribed klonopin but I do take it only as a last resort and as prescribed. The anxiety I get is crippling, it leaves me unable to talk on the phone, interact with others, leave my home, etc... That includes attending meetings of alcoholics anonymous which I need to maintain my sobriety. One thing I do make sure of though is when I have taken a klonopin before a meeting is I make a point to pass when asked to share. I do this not because I feel I am wrong or less sober for taking the medication but rather out of respect for Alcoholics Anonymous and the group. I only started taking medication after years of trying to fight through these mental health issues with Alcoholics Anonymous alone. I could not figure out why I was still crazy despite working the program and applying it to every aspect of my life. My life got better but the ups and downs of bipolar disorder and the anxiety, nightmares, and flashbacks of PTSD were not relieved by the program of AA. It was only when I accepted the fact that there are some issues Alcoholics Anonymous was not designed to fix, that I was able to seek and obtain the outside help I need. Alcoholics Anonymous was designed as a program to help Alcoholics find and remain sober. It is not about drugs or mental health but about alcohol.
I realize that there are those that have had bad experience with medications in and out of the program of AA. Each person is different what is a problem for one may not be a problem for another. I keep in close contact with my sponsor and my doctor regarding the medications I take and why I take them. I do not rely on my psych doc to cure my alcoholism and I do not rely on AA to cure my mental health issues. I need to treat them separately. But that is my experience others have their own to share. I am sure there are those that will think less of me and my sobriety for my posting this but to them I can only say I have no need for sobriety if I do not properly treat my mental health issues because without treating those I would be dead. Just as if I do not treat my alcoholism treating my mental health issues would not be necessary because I would be dead. They go hand in hand for me and as such have to be treated simultaneously with the appropriate therapies for each.
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I hope I didnt offend anybody. I was just asking for some advice and got some great advice. I read the pamphlet and its wonderful.
I just had a bad experience with klonopin, and I should of realized that doesn't mean everybody does.
Again, thanks for the advice and sorry if I offended anyone,
Michael
I just had a bad experience with klonopin, and I should of realized that doesn't mean everybody does.
Again, thanks for the advice and sorry if I offended anyone,
Michael
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No offense taken. I believe that everyone has experience worth sharing. Each person's experience is important as we never know who's life we may touch with sharing it. Take care. You are wonderful for caring enough to ask the question.
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Michael, I don't think there's anything wrong with you sharing YOUR EXPERIENCE with that new person. You might want to add that you know of others, nandm for example, who have NOT had those bad experiences.
I think we get into trouble when we assume too much. Maybe your bad experiences were just a coincidence (probably not, but you get what I mean, right?). Just make sure what you say doesn't overstep your level of medical knowledge of what's right for that newcomer - in other words, tell them what happened in your life and maybe suggest that if they "consider" some alternatives, to make sure they speak to their doctor about it as well.
I think we get into trouble when we assume too much. Maybe your bad experiences were just a coincidence (probably not, but you get what I mean, right?). Just make sure what you say doesn't overstep your level of medical knowledge of what's right for that newcomer - in other words, tell them what happened in your life and maybe suggest that if they "consider" some alternatives, to make sure they speak to their doctor about it as well.
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The best (and only) way I can help someone in AA is to get recovered myself. Then, hopefully, with a little patience and practice, I will intuitively know how to handle these situations (as well as the rest of my life).
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Originally Posted by michael35209
Thanks for the quick reply. I need to read that phamplet.
I just feel sorry for her. The Dr.s dont know **** about Klonopin and they have people on tranqulizers for years. They affect the same as alcohol does, the GABBA receptors. I wish I had someone come up to me when I thought I was lossing my mind and help me. I got lucky and came across a board on the internet that helped, Thanks God. I mean, this stuff about made me do things that wouldnt had been cool at all to myself.
Anyhow, thanks so much. I wont say anything to her.
I just feel sorry for her. The Dr.s dont know **** about Klonopin and they have people on tranqulizers for years. They affect the same as alcohol does, the GABBA receptors. I wish I had someone come up to me when I thought I was lossing my mind and help me. I got lucky and came across a board on the internet that helped, Thanks God. I mean, this stuff about made me do things that wouldnt had been cool at all to myself.
Anyhow, thanks so much. I wont say anything to her.
i was on about 6mg of klonopin a day for a LONG time. i've been through the withdrawal and i had the protracted withdrawal syndrome so I'll throw out my 2 cents.
this is a catch 22 situation. on one hand if she has a drug dealer for a doctor like i did(willing to prescribe me as high a dose as i wanted)then she's in for a world of a mess.
on the other hand, the people here are right. we are the last people qualified to help anyone taper off klonopin.
here's my best advise. take her aside and just say something to the effect of.."hey i heard you were on klonopin, and i had a bad experience with it and you might want to look up an addiction specialist in the yellow pages and see if you can get a consultation for addiction regarding the medication if it ever becomes a concern to you." and leave it at that.
i have a close friend that is an addiction specialist and she recommended i read the Ashton manual. it's by far the most advanced, up to date method on how to treat addiction to benzos and most of the medical community that treats addiction has used this method as a whole since the late 90's.
here's a link:
benzo.org.uk : The Ashton Manual, Professor C Heather Ashton DM, FRCP
if she's interested in getting off of the k's, you might suggest she print it up and take it with her to the doctor on a consultation.
i agree with you that most GP's couldn't buy themselves a clue regarding the danger of this stuff. Asking a person to "go see her doctor" as a blanket "fix" to this could be just as bad a trying to get them to taper off on her own if the doctor is uninterested in doing anything but prescribing her more drugs.
in this case, it would be better to contact an addiction specialist that is a dr or a clinical psycologist that has an MD with an addiction backround to help her. regular GP's suck at this stuff.
good luck.
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I agree with nandm,
No offense at all. One of the things that struck me in the pamphlet is how well-meaning people can actually cause harm to someone else by advising them to discontinue necessary medications.
Having a sponsor who understands medications may be necessary is critical, I think. As well as having a doctor who is familiar with alcoholism and addiction.
You are doing yourself and others a favor by asking questions and getting informed. That's great!
No offense at all. One of the things that struck me in the pamphlet is how well-meaning people can actually cause harm to someone else by advising them to discontinue necessary medications.
Having a sponsor who understands medications may be necessary is critical, I think. As well as having a doctor who is familiar with alcoholism and addiction.
You are doing yourself and others a favor by asking questions and getting informed. That's great!
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Originally Posted by BullDog777
i was on about 6mg of klonopin a day for a LONG time. i've been through the withdrawal and i had the protracted withdrawal syndrome so I'll throw out my 2 cents.
this is a catch 22 situation. on one hand if she has a drug dealer for a doctor like i did(willing to prescribe me as high a dose as i wanted)then she's in for a world of a mess.
on the other hand, the people here are right. we are the last people qualified to help anyone taper off klonopin.
here's my best advise. take her aside and just say something to the effect of.."hey i heard you were on klonopin, and i had a bad experience with it and you might want to look up an addiction specialist in the yellow pages and see if you can get a consultation for addiction regarding the medication if it ever becomes a concern to you." and leave it at that.
i have a close friend that is an addiction specialist and she recommended i read the Ashton manual. it's by far the most advanced, up to date method on how to treat addiction to benzos and most of the medical community that treats addiction has used this method as a whole since the late 90's.
here's a link:
benzo.org.uk : The Ashton Manual, Professor C Heather Ashton DM, FRCP
if she's interested in getting off of the k's, you might suggest she print it up and take it with her to the doctor on a consultation.
i agree with you that most GP's couldn't buy themselves a clue regarding the danger of this stuff. Asking a person to "go see her doctor" as a blanket "fix" to this could be just as bad a trying to get them to taper off on her own if the doctor is uninterested in doing anything but prescribing her more drugs.
in this case, it would be better to contact an addiction specialist that is a dr or a clinical psycologist that has an MD with an addiction backround to help her. regular GP's suck at this stuff.
good luck.
this is a catch 22 situation. on one hand if she has a drug dealer for a doctor like i did(willing to prescribe me as high a dose as i wanted)then she's in for a world of a mess.
on the other hand, the people here are right. we are the last people qualified to help anyone taper off klonopin.
here's my best advise. take her aside and just say something to the effect of.."hey i heard you were on klonopin, and i had a bad experience with it and you might want to look up an addiction specialist in the yellow pages and see if you can get a consultation for addiction regarding the medication if it ever becomes a concern to you." and leave it at that.
i have a close friend that is an addiction specialist and she recommended i read the Ashton manual. it's by far the most advanced, up to date method on how to treat addiction to benzos and most of the medical community that treats addiction has used this method as a whole since the late 90's.
here's a link:
benzo.org.uk : The Ashton Manual, Professor C Heather Ashton DM, FRCP
if she's interested in getting off of the k's, you might suggest she print it up and take it with her to the doctor on a consultation.
i agree with you that most GP's couldn't buy themselves a clue regarding the danger of this stuff. Asking a person to "go see her doctor" as a blanket "fix" to this could be just as bad a trying to get them to taper off on her own if the doctor is uninterested in doing anything but prescribing her more drugs.
in this case, it would be better to contact an addiction specialist that is a dr or a clinical psycologist that has an MD with an addiction backround to help her. regular GP's suck at this stuff.
good luck.
WOW! I love hearing the Psalm 23 experience you had. That is AWESOME!
God Bless
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Bulldog: GREAT reply! I was on Klonopin for 7 years and tapered off very slowly. i didnt know about the Ashton Method at the time (thank GOD for that woman!) but i knew to do it very, very slowly, just wean off. And i did it.
I never abused or misused the drug in any way. ANYONE will become physically dependent upon it when taking it more than a week or 2, or 3 (depends on the individual and their chemical make-up, etc).
As for not giving advice unless an MD? I say Hooey to that. I have been there, done that, and almost zero MDs know a whip about how to SAFELY taper a person off a benzo. No clue. A pharmacist will usually have a far better idea but really, doctors dont know much about medications at all. They learn about them, what they do/are for, names, types, classes, how they work in the body but they know no more than most of the rest of us. I have counseled several in getting safely off a benzo and always direct them to the Ashton Manual. Just sayin', having an "MD" after ur name doesnt mean a whole lot when it comes to medictions and getting off them safely. The horror stories i have heard are almost unbelievable.... but the success ones all came from ppl helping other ppl (similar to AA) based on shared experiences, knowledge from reading/researching and mutual support.
So shes on Klonopin... I went back on it after a horrible death in the family a few years ago. I will get off it again and likely soon.
Is this person abusiing it? Or not? If she needs it for now, then so be it. I know all about the receptors (GABA) it hits and u DO need to be careful but a maintenance dose of the medication shouldnt do a ton of harm. But in general, yeah, its been to NOT be on a benzo like Klon, or Xanax, or Ativan, if u can really get away with not ever starting on one. But of course, those MDs, way, way overprescribe the very dangerous drugs... give 'em out like candy. And im gonna ask an MD on advice on how to get off? Not in this lifetime!
Peace,
O
I never abused or misused the drug in any way. ANYONE will become physically dependent upon it when taking it more than a week or 2, or 3 (depends on the individual and their chemical make-up, etc).
As for not giving advice unless an MD? I say Hooey to that. I have been there, done that, and almost zero MDs know a whip about how to SAFELY taper a person off a benzo. No clue. A pharmacist will usually have a far better idea but really, doctors dont know much about medications at all. They learn about them, what they do/are for, names, types, classes, how they work in the body but they know no more than most of the rest of us. I have counseled several in getting safely off a benzo and always direct them to the Ashton Manual. Just sayin', having an "MD" after ur name doesnt mean a whole lot when it comes to medictions and getting off them safely. The horror stories i have heard are almost unbelievable.... but the success ones all came from ppl helping other ppl (similar to AA) based on shared experiences, knowledge from reading/researching and mutual support.
So shes on Klonopin... I went back on it after a horrible death in the family a few years ago. I will get off it again and likely soon.
Is this person abusiing it? Or not? If she needs it for now, then so be it. I know all about the receptors (GABA) it hits and u DO need to be careful but a maintenance dose of the medication shouldnt do a ton of harm. But in general, yeah, its been to NOT be on a benzo like Klon, or Xanax, or Ativan, if u can really get away with not ever starting on one. But of course, those MDs, way, way overprescribe the very dangerous drugs... give 'em out like candy. And im gonna ask an MD on advice on how to get off? Not in this lifetime!
Peace,
O
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