least

I no longer have a sponsor, didn't finish working the steps, and rarely go to meetings any more but I DID have a 'psychic change', so to speak. The desire to drink is gone now, and tho it rears its ugly head once in a while, it is always turned down firmly and without any internal argument.

Have been having a lot of family stress lately, and I noticed that the other day, after leaving my mom's house and going home, I passed the drive thru (where I used to get my wine) and the thought that popped into my head while passing it was "boy I'm glad I don't need to/want to drink any more!"

I'd call that a spiritual awakening... as all my previous (and unsuccessful) attempts to stay sober were really 'white knuckling' it and always fighting the urge to drink.

Coming up on nine months sober now and have a 'feeling' in my heart that I'm glad to be rid of that demon and that I no longer want to drink, not even when the going gets rough. Yes, I am powerless over alcohol, but not if I CHOOSE NOT TO pick up that first drink.

24hrsAday

least: if i Drank Today.. Even Though it Might take a Little While.. i Know i Would Slowly (at Best) Be Right Back Where i Was Half Dead.. i Say No Thank You Too!

keithj

24,

I have no idea how you stay sober. Nor do I care. Based on your own reporting of your power over alcohol, you obviously don't require a spiritual experience. Good for you for working the Steps anyway.

If I have the power to drink or not to drink, what do I need God for?

24hrsAday

Keith: i Never Said Any of That..

Draciack

Can't we all just get along... LOL

Keith, I have a related question that concerns the 12-step method of achieving long-term sobriety: How do you account for individuals that work the Steps, have a spiritual awakening, but eventually "go out" again?

(I think the answer might have to do with spiritual maintenance and Step 11 but I like to ask those with far more experience than I )

24, I look at it like this: Technically I can floor my car up to 100 mph and crash into a brick wall, but it goes completely against my self-preservation, common sense, and a desire to live. It goes against the core of who I am. So why would I do so?

Once I accepted my alcoholism, I accepted that if I continued to drink I would die an early miserable death. I'm powerless after I have that first drink. So like the above example, the choice to drink has been removed. It's gone.

Important to note: That is not the BB's definition of powerlessness though. The text is fairly clear that powerlessness is a physical, mental, and spiritual issue, while I look at it as just physical.

Whatever floats your boat...

DayTrader

All of the future is predetermined anyway so what we think are choices really aren't. What we call choices are just our minds trying to arrange predetermined events into a pattern of thought that makes us feel somewhat in control. We're all just puppets on the end of strings being controlled by God and the Devil in some sick cosmic skit.

lol jk.

Personally, I find this constant debate meaningless (especially in person at a meeting). The whole damn book was written and designed to show people how to have a spiritual awakening/experience - to find power from God so that He could do for you what you're not able to do on your own. You want a definitive answer? Go ask God.

Like 24 said (and I concur).... I don't "believe it" just because it's in the book (not 100% of the time anyway). Most of the stuff in that book that I believe, I've had to seek for an answer based upon my own experience. Here's the kicker, some of my "beliefs" (and I'm sure many of yours) have changed over time. Were we wrong then? Are we wrong now? Does it eeeeeeven matter.......???

Choice, most, always, must, seldom, rarely, thoroughly, etc etc etc..... how 'bout seeking God, asking Him, and leaving the semantics to the non-alcoholics to discuss and debate since they can afford such luxuries?


And if you disagree, fine. If you agree, fine. Agree now and change your mind later, that's cool too. I want to do what works and sometimes what works now starts to "not work" later. I enjoy hearing the differences of opinion but I don't believe there is one definitive answer for everyone...... but I reserve the right to change my mind later. LOL


And 24, you keep seeking.......but remember to ask whatever God you believe exists because if your past is anything like mine, you've learned that you don't always make the best choices --and psssst..... I doubt that God is posting on this board

keithj

You know, Mark, I forget that and take the bait. 24hoursaday brought up the topic, asked the question, then argues with whoever doesn't agree with him. It's happened before.

Can't see the point, really.

For those that can decide not to drink and have that work, I'm happy for you.

For those of us that can't, thank God there's a BB.

aswego

My question is: why do you care? If your conception of sobriety works for you, great. If another's conception of sobriety works for them, great. Why not move past the semantics of it and just live your life.

AWOL

Admitting powerlessness is a choice in itself, so choice is fundamental to sobriety whether you choose not to drink or admit that you are powerless over drinking.

AlcoholicOrNot

Alcoholism is complex. The mind is a complex place. People are complex. There are too many dynamic variables in play.

Many people on this site are looking for "The Way" to recovery. There is no single, standardized way that works for ALL cases. For many, AA works for them. For others, just the decision not to have that first drink works for them.

Both AA and other alternative "ways" to sobriety have also seen their fare share of "failed attempts".

What's more important than the methods one uses in an attempt to recover?

The fact that the individual realizes he / she has a problem with alcohol.

We are all here for the same reason - to recover from our own individualized obsession with alcohol.

We all want to succeed and we all want each other to succeed. We should just encourage and provide support to these folks regardless of the methods they set out to use.

LexieCat

I kinda go round and round with this in my own head. I've had debates with others as to whether I'm a "real" alcoholic (their questioning it, not me--I've believed I am since I decided to give up drinking).

I've stayed sober for two years, haven't worked the steps formally (I believe I've worked the first three on my own but will do it with my sponsor shortly). I haven't had any serious urges to drink since my first week. While I was still drinking I could exercise a modicum of control IF I HAD to--not consistently or for long stretches. It was getting worse and I could see the writing on the wall.

Now, after two years, I am very unhappy with a number of things about my life. I won't go into them all, and it doesn't really matter for purposes of this discussion. I am not happy with myself, most of all.

I believe that by working the Steps my life will straighten out and I can get to "happy, joyous and free." So that's my motivation. I also fear that, in spite of the fact that I do not seem to have any problem not drinking, down the road, if I don't do something about my chronic dissatisfaction, I might decide that I might as well drink.

The problem with the debate for me, personally, is the only way to "prove" that I MUST work the steps in order to stay sober is to relapse if I haven't. I'm not willing to do that. Even though my life doesn't look right now the way I want it to look, it would look a hell of a lot worse if I were still drinking.

I know there are a lot of people out there who absolutely cannot stay sober for any length of time without working the steps. I think that if I had continued to drink for a few more months or years I might have gotten to that point.

So for me, working the steps is (a) insurance that I won't wind up relapsing down the road because I didn't work the program, and (b) a way to have the kind of life where I can truly appreciate the gift of sobriety.

Right now it feels like I can make a decision whether or not to take a drink. I can't prove that it's wrong without relapsing. Sort of a conundrum, eh?

Dee74

Accepting I was an alcoholic and accepting that every time I took a drink I should expect the inevitable helped me get out of a cycle I was in for 20 years.

I work hard at my recovery every day but I'm not really bothered with a lot of the philosophical discourses that get raised here a lot of the time.

I share my experience...and I try to leave others the freedom to find their way like I found mine. I think that's the very best any of us can do.

D

RobbyRobot

It's a great day for living the good sober spiritual life. Living right with ourselves, our brothers and sisters, and our Higher Power, as however we each have come to understand for ourselves; no matter the understanding we achieve. Either we're all free to choose to be ourselves sober, or none of us are really free of our alcoholic shackles. Live and let live. We're all rocking the sweet sober life within our grateful and fragile grasp when we get out of our own way and just get it done for today.

Cheers!

RobbyRobot

24hrsAday

Thanks For Replying Everybody..

radicalproposal

24, This is not a personal attack.

If you are sober and happy good for you. Looking at your posts, you appear to be missing some critical facts. If you can actually decide not to drink and have the power of choice, good news, you don't need AA.

Or maybe you are sober by grace and fellowship, find out your truth. An alcoholic who finishes amends and works 10-12 will have the problem removed, It will not exist. In a recovered state is the only place I know the possibility the mental obsession will not return. I can't choose something that isn't an option.

The BIg BOok talks about Suddenly. can you tell me what your next suddenly looks like? These are tough questions designed to get not only you but any one else who is reading this to think.

I have spent far too much time in AA listening to Ï have a choice today" discussions. An alcoholic as described in the book does not and will not EVER regain choice. The guy like me who hears this message will die.

24hrsAday

Well Said My Friend..

24hrsAday

i'm on Step #6 Right Now (First Time EVER) i'm Not Sure What You Mean About My Facts..

Boleo

I relapsed at least a dozen times after going to AA meetings, sometimes after going to 90 meetings in 30 days. I don't recall it ever being a decision, or a choice. It was simply the only way I knew how to live:

"To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks..."
(Doctors Opinion).

After I had the spiritual awakening described on page 85, I never needed to make a choice or decision not to drink. There was nothing there to choose between. The temptation itself was gone.

I don't choose to be male or female one-day-at-a-time because I it's not a choice I need to make at all.

24hrsAday

Boleo.. i Understand "The Choice Has Been Removed School of Thought" i Can't Say i Believe it Has Been For Me.. i Will Never Say i Will NEVER Drink Again.. But, i Do Say NO Thank You..

lildawg

Lexie, you could have been talking about me in your post. I think it's crazy that I have so much in common with you on this one issue. Having read your story, I know we are very different.

Though I was very sick when I quit drinking, I wasn't at the point where I couldn't stay sober without working a program. If you are not a "real" alcoholic, I guess I am not either. <grins>

Coming to SR and meeting other people who seemed so happy in their sobriety inspired me to try to do more. Like you, I believe working the Steps will set me free (of myself) in some way.

I think I am making a decision not to pick up the first drink. I know if I ever pick up the first drink, all decisions are made. I am powerless over alcohol; therefore, my only choice is to avoid it. Even though I used the word "powerless," I wonder if I am not using it the wrong way. I wonder if I am not truly powerless since I choose to shun alcohol.

It's a confusing issue to me, one that makes me feel dumb. I think I'll blame it on the time I hit my head while I was drinking.