Struggling With Some Concepts
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 318
Struggling With Some Concepts
I've seen over the past little while how I should trust that my HP has a plan, will protect me, and can see things that I cannot see. I've also been learning to live one day at a time and stop fretting about the future. I'm learning to say "it is what it is", and starting to know the difference between what I can and cannot change/control.
Where my struggle come to play now is how do dreams, goals, and aspirations fit in with this philosophy?
I'm not exactly a "just sit back and take life as it comes to you" kind of person. If I were, I might still be chasing the escape at the bottom of a bottle. Having my daily goal of not drinking for today is a good one and one I will repeat over and over again for the rest of my life.
But I need to be able to know I am going in some direction, or have something to work towards achieving. Something more than just not drinking.
I'm still just not quite sure about some of these things. I am trying to find the intersection between trusting my HP, living one day at a time, while at the same time being able to achieve something out of my life. Maybe I am seeing things too much in a black and white sort of world, and need to add a grayscale to it?
Just wondering if anyone else has had this same struggle, or dealt with it along the way.
Where my struggle come to play now is how do dreams, goals, and aspirations fit in with this philosophy?
I'm not exactly a "just sit back and take life as it comes to you" kind of person. If I were, I might still be chasing the escape at the bottom of a bottle. Having my daily goal of not drinking for today is a good one and one I will repeat over and over again for the rest of my life.
But I need to be able to know I am going in some direction, or have something to work towards achieving. Something more than just not drinking.
I'm still just not quite sure about some of these things. I am trying to find the intersection between trusting my HP, living one day at a time, while at the same time being able to achieve something out of my life. Maybe I am seeing things too much in a black and white sort of world, and need to add a grayscale to it?
Just wondering if anyone else has had this same struggle, or dealt with it along the way.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
All the let go and let god and one day at a time stuff isn't about just sitting back and trusting IMO...
For me, it's about knowing what I can do, and doing that - then leaving the rest (all the stuff I know I can't do anything about) to either work itself out, or get to a point where I can do something about it.
It's about knowing my limits and perspective and about focus - it's about 'keeping things real' not about inaction
D
For me, it's about knowing what I can do, and doing that - then leaving the rest (all the stuff I know I can't do anything about) to either work itself out, or get to a point where I can do something about it.
It's about knowing my limits and perspective and about focus - it's about 'keeping things real' not about inaction
D
SR Fan
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 7,910
You're making me think, Omega - ouch!!
You know, I've had the exact same questions (although related more to "living in the moment" as a kind of spiritual exercise). But I think it's the same kind of thing, so here's a thought for ya:
The idea of working towards a goal or even having a goal is a part of the "plan" of your life. You could see it as your HP working in you or through you. It's also a sign of health, especially when you compare it to what we do while drinking, which is to avoid growth and goals completely. Where the acceptance part of it comes in (and the trust or faith) is in the results. We dream, plan, and act in the NOW, and then let the expectations go, confident that things have been set in motion and no matter what happens it will be exactly what we need.
Now, I need to ask you - did that make any sense? haha - I have this idea in my head, but not always sure I can fully express it.
Anyway, thanks for the post!
You know, I've had the exact same questions (although related more to "living in the moment" as a kind of spiritual exercise). But I think it's the same kind of thing, so here's a thought for ya:
The idea of working towards a goal or even having a goal is a part of the "plan" of your life. You could see it as your HP working in you or through you. It's also a sign of health, especially when you compare it to what we do while drinking, which is to avoid growth and goals completely. Where the acceptance part of it comes in (and the trust or faith) is in the results. We dream, plan, and act in the NOW, and then let the expectations go, confident that things have been set in motion and no matter what happens it will be exactly what we need.
Now, I need to ask you - did that make any sense? haha - I have this idea in my head, but not always sure I can fully express it.
Anyway, thanks for the post!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Hey omega! I believe in living in the present, but I gotta say I am enjoying my sober life so much I look forward to the future in a way that I couldn't when drinking. I am totally excited by tomorrow and next week and the rest of my sober life, so I'm kinda with you in the not getting the whole one day at a time thing...so I'm just not thinking about taking it one day at a time.
However, i only know what works for me:-)
However, i only know what works for me:-)
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 590
Very interesting thread. I don't claim to have answer but will share my thoughts for whatever they are worth.
I too believe that my HP has insight, methods, and plans that are far beyond mine. I also believe that life will truly be joyful and fulfilling if I submit to and seek out those plans....not mine. Lately I have basically been waking up saying this is YOUR day...not mine, so please let me be a part of what YOU want to accomplish today. That makes it pretty obvious that I wll not be drinking on that day which is another great benefit! The HP plan is not always easy and it most certainly doesn't mean that you do nothing but I am convinced is the most rewarding, exciting and peaceful for me.
Guess I never bought into that old saying of "God helps those who help themselves". In my case I proved that I did not have the power to help myself and just messed things up trying. Good things only seem to happen when I get in line with my HP's will and rely totally upon Him.
Hope this doesn't sound too "preachy". Maybe it is better suited for another forum. Certainly not trying to offend anyone. This is just my experience and hopefully it may be of some help to someone.
I too believe that my HP has insight, methods, and plans that are far beyond mine. I also believe that life will truly be joyful and fulfilling if I submit to and seek out those plans....not mine. Lately I have basically been waking up saying this is YOUR day...not mine, so please let me be a part of what YOU want to accomplish today. That makes it pretty obvious that I wll not be drinking on that day which is another great benefit! The HP plan is not always easy and it most certainly doesn't mean that you do nothing but I am convinced is the most rewarding, exciting and peaceful for me.
Guess I never bought into that old saying of "God helps those who help themselves". In my case I proved that I did not have the power to help myself and just messed things up trying. Good things only seem to happen when I get in line with my HP's will and rely totally upon Him.
Hope this doesn't sound too "preachy". Maybe it is better suited for another forum. Certainly not trying to offend anyone. This is just my experience and hopefully it may be of some help to someone.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,525
To me, "one day at a time" doesn't mean I don't have dreams, goals or aspirations. The way I use "one day at a time" is to cope with those occasional moments when it's a bit of a challenge to stay sober. At those times, it can be helpful for me to remind myself that all I really need to do is not drink today. Although I have no intention of drinking ever again, "one day at a time" can also be helpful when I get occasional thoughts about how I will handle problems in the future, like for example "oh my gosh, what am I going to do on New Year's Eve... everyone will be drinking... how will I manage?" Etc. I just tell myself it's August, that I will deal with New Year's when it comes, and that right now I only have to worry about today.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 84
I think that the key to pursuing your dreams and aspirations is in aligning your will with the will of HP. Where we get into trouble is in believing that we can make it happen on our own or that HP is going to ask something of us that we don't want to do. (Like becoming a missionary to the Congo or something.) HP is capable of inspiring us and lifting us to accomplishments and happiness far exceeding our own imaginations. I definitely want to go with that flow!
We must strive one day at a time to listen to HP, to trust in the plan for our lives, to persevere and manage our mistakes as well as possible. There's no limit to what we can do with the help of HP. Dream big, Omega10!
We must strive one day at a time to listen to HP, to trust in the plan for our lives, to persevere and manage our mistakes as well as possible. There's no limit to what we can do with the help of HP. Dream big, Omega10!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Between Serenity and Despair
Posts: 522
This same topic was posted to Omega's blog, too. I commented there that I hoped someone answered.
This very thing has been on my mind since I started reading the big book and started thinking about what a higher power is to me. I have my dreams, my aspirations, but I wondered if I shouldn't kick them to the curb.
As usual, the kind folks here at SR have given me some wonderful things to consider. Thanks to you all.
This very thing has been on my mind since I started reading the big book and started thinking about what a higher power is to me. I have my dreams, my aspirations, but I wondered if I shouldn't kick them to the curb.
As usual, the kind folks here at SR have given me some wonderful things to consider. Thanks to you all.
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 318
LaFemme: I'm with you; for the most part I look forward to the positive things that come from being sober.
Happier: Thank you for your response! All feedback is welcome, it's the diversity of thought here that I was seeking, since I honestly don't know the answer.
Soberbythesea: Like you, the "one day at a time" philosophy has helped me get through similar situations like the NYE you were describing. When I first quit drinking I was the self-crowned "queen of fretting about the future". I learned to relax quite a bit since then, but sometimes my thinking gets the better of me - tonight is an excellent illustration of that.
Pongo: Thanks - I'm a bit of a control freak and sometimes have to be reminded that things are beyond my control. I'm still on a big learning curve.
Live: I like what you said about "faith and planning" not being mutually exclusive.
Lildawg: it's comforting to know I am not alone in thinking about things like this.
Thank you all for sharing your perspectives. You have helped me immensely this evening and I am more at peace now.
Happier: Thank you for your response! All feedback is welcome, it's the diversity of thought here that I was seeking, since I honestly don't know the answer.
Soberbythesea: Like you, the "one day at a time" philosophy has helped me get through similar situations like the NYE you were describing. When I first quit drinking I was the self-crowned "queen of fretting about the future". I learned to relax quite a bit since then, but sometimes my thinking gets the better of me - tonight is an excellent illustration of that.
Pongo: Thanks - I'm a bit of a control freak and sometimes have to be reminded that things are beyond my control. I'm still on a big learning curve.
Live: I like what you said about "faith and planning" not being mutually exclusive.
Lildawg: it's comforting to know I am not alone in thinking about things like this.
Thank you all for sharing your perspectives. You have helped me immensely this evening and I am more at peace now.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
I'm going to avoid one of my (typical? - lol) super-long winded answers in spite of wanting to give one but I'll tell you this Omega, I've been wrestling, considering, debating, thinking about the same thing since I got sober. Where I'm at now may be unique to me and it also may change but I'll tell you where several years of searching for the answer to your same question has taken me.
I'm coming to the conclusion that, much like so many other "occurrences" in my life that seemed to be one thing on the surface and something all-together different as time passed and my eyes opened to the truth, I can learn a lot from my alcoholism.
I'm not able to keep myself sober. I can set goals, draw lines in the sand, firmly resolve, etc etc.... eventually I end up drunk again. I may be able to do it my-way for a while but it's always gone bad. It's only when I let go of "trying" and connected to God that I got free from it.
So..... if letting go of "my plans" and seeking God's plan was the answer in
in the booze arena, wouldn't it make sense that doing the same thing in the other areas of my life would yield the same results? -I think so. So, to that end, I'm working now on letting go of everything. ...and I mean every single thing -- every preconceived notion, every goal, every belief, every thought..... the whooooooole shootin' match. I'm not necessarily throwing everything out the window but everything is up for grabs...and I'm not gonna jump to grab them back. I'm tossing my whole life at God and I'm asking Him what He wants me to do. If that means changing careers, moving, going back to school, getting married, having/not having kids, etc etc.....ALL of it. ........and in case you're wondering, yes, it's scary and NOT easy. (hmmm, much like letting go of the delusion that I have any choice or control over booze - hmmm, I wonder if there's a correlation.... ).
I either trust God or I don't right? Well, it's becoming quite apparent that the areas of my life where I HAVE "turned it over" - they're going pretty well. All the stuff I've kept and am trying to control... uh..... not-so-good....or at least not as well as they could be. In those areas I haven't ceased fighting everything and everyone. I'm still in charge.... So, if I really HAVE a new employer, it's time for me to concentrate on being the best little worker bee I can be and leave the decision making of which direction I'm going up to the Boss.
this stuff is verrrrrrry hard for me... Letting go.... and it's scary as hell sometimes.... mostly, I seem to get forced into it rather than choosing it... but, I guess, that's where I am.
good luck to you my man.
I'm coming to the conclusion that, much like so many other "occurrences" in my life that seemed to be one thing on the surface and something all-together different as time passed and my eyes opened to the truth, I can learn a lot from my alcoholism.
I'm not able to keep myself sober. I can set goals, draw lines in the sand, firmly resolve, etc etc.... eventually I end up drunk again. I may be able to do it my-way for a while but it's always gone bad. It's only when I let go of "trying" and connected to God that I got free from it.
So..... if letting go of "my plans" and seeking God's plan was the answer in
in the booze arena, wouldn't it make sense that doing the same thing in the other areas of my life would yield the same results? -I think so. So, to that end, I'm working now on letting go of everything. ...and I mean every single thing -- every preconceived notion, every goal, every belief, every thought..... the whooooooole shootin' match. I'm not necessarily throwing everything out the window but everything is up for grabs...and I'm not gonna jump to grab them back. I'm tossing my whole life at God and I'm asking Him what He wants me to do. If that means changing careers, moving, going back to school, getting married, having/not having kids, etc etc.....ALL of it. ........and in case you're wondering, yes, it's scary and NOT easy. (hmmm, much like letting go of the delusion that I have any choice or control over booze - hmmm, I wonder if there's a correlation....
). I either trust God or I don't right? Well, it's becoming quite apparent that the areas of my life where I HAVE "turned it over" - they're going pretty well. All the stuff I've kept and am trying to control... uh..... not-so-good....or at least not as well as they could be. In those areas I haven't ceased fighting everything and everyone. I'm still in charge.... So, if I really HAVE a new employer, it's time for me to concentrate on being the best little worker bee I can be and leave the decision making of which direction I'm going up to the Boss.
this stuff is verrrrrrry hard for me... Letting go.... and it's scary as hell sometimes.... mostly, I seem to get forced into it rather than choosing it... but, I guess, that's where I am.
good luck to you my man.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by Dee74 
All the let go and let god and one day at a time stuff isn't about just sitting back and trusting IMO...
For me, it's about knowing what I can do, and doing that - then leaving the rest (all the stuff I know I can't do anything about) to either work itself out, or get to a point where I can do something about it.
It's about knowing my limits and perspective and about focus - it's about 'keeping things real' not about inaction
D
For me, it's about knowing what I can do, and doing that - then leaving the rest (all the stuff I know I can't do anything about) to either work itself out, or get to a point where I can do something about it.
It's about knowing my limits and perspective and about focus - it's about 'keeping things real' not about inaction
D
Brian
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: massachusetts
Posts: 2,216
I have heard some similar parables that address this issue...
A short one is: A devout man who was down on his luck prayed to God: "Please, please, please help me win the lottery". To which God replied: "Please, please, please buy a ticket"!
I agree with the above posters that it is our responsibility to do the best we can (action), and then "let it go". Be vested in the effort, not the outcome.
A short one is: A devout man who was down on his luck prayed to God: "Please, please, please help me win the lottery". To which God replied: "Please, please, please buy a ticket"!
I agree with the above posters that it is our responsibility to do the best we can (action), and then "let it go". Be vested in the effort, not the outcome.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 318
Keepcomingback: That's a great story, thank you for sharing it.
Daytrader: you described what might be the fundamental root of my dilemma - to trust or not to trust. You are right, letting go is extremely difficult.
Your responses have all been fabulous, and I am grateful that you took the time to share. There was actually a moment or two today where I started to use some of the advice I received... so know that the feedback is being taken to heart! Thanks again!
Daytrader: you described what might be the fundamental root of my dilemma - to trust or not to trust. You are right, letting go is extremely difficult.
Your responses have all been fabulous, and I am grateful that you took the time to share. There was actually a moment or two today where I started to use some of the advice I received... so know that the feedback is being taken to heart! Thanks again!
It`s ok to stay sober
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Central NC
Posts: 20,902
I was told that it is ok to make plans,just don`t plan the outcome. Things seldom come out like we plan and we get sore,disappointed, and upset
Set your goals,love your dreams and aspirations and stay sober while you move toward them.I do not think sobriety is meant to stop your creativity and progress.
there is a line from a old book
without a vision,people perish
many great things have started as you have stated ,a "dream" in a persons mind.Without action,it remains a dream,with the right action ,it can blossom into a great work and a reality.Omega,I hope you follow those dreams,and do not give up.We alkies- druggies are famous for giving up right on the edge of success.
one small suggestion:don`t forget to pray along the way
Set your goals,love your dreams and aspirations and stay sober while you move toward them.I do not think sobriety is meant to stop your creativity and progress.
there is a line from a old book
without a vision,people perish
many great things have started as you have stated ,a "dream" in a persons mind.Without action,it remains a dream,with the right action ,it can blossom into a great work and a reality.Omega,I hope you follow those dreams,and do not give up.We alkies- druggies are famous for giving up right on the edge of success.
one small suggestion:don`t forget to pray along the way
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 318
Originally Posted by bballdad
I was told that it is ok to make plans,just don`t plan the outcome. Things seldom come out like we plan and we get sore,disappointed, and upset
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 590
I have enjoyed and benefited from everyone's posts. Thanks to Omega for starting this great thread! I've come to really appreciate the fact that we often seem to help one another as we seek help for ourselves. That strikes me as a truly powerful, great, and surprising process! Thanks again Omega.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by bballdad
I was told that it is ok to make plans,just don`t plan the outcome. Things seldom come out like we plan and we get sore,disappointed, and upset
Set your goals,love your dreams and aspirations and stay sober while you move toward them.I do not think sobriety is meant to stop your creativity and progress.
there is a line from a old book
without a vision,people perish
many great things have started as you have stated ,a "dream" in a persons mind.Without action,it remains a dream,with the right action ,it can blossom into a great work and a reality.Omega,I hope you follow those dreams,and do not give up.We alkies- druggies are famous for giving up right on the edge of success.
one small suggestion:don`t forget to pray along the way
Set your goals,love your dreams and aspirations and stay sober while you move toward them.I do not think sobriety is meant to stop your creativity and progress.
there is a line from a old book
without a vision,people perish
many great things have started as you have stated ,a "dream" in a persons mind.Without action,it remains a dream,with the right action ,it can blossom into a great work and a reality.Omega,I hope you follow those dreams,and do not give up.We alkies- druggies are famous for giving up right on the edge of success.
one small suggestion:don`t forget to pray along the way
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