suki44883

Yeah, with a couple of really smelly socks thrown in.

Supercrew

I do agree about the genetic component, and the gene runs in my family, and to top it of I'm part Irish if that means anything?

suki44883

Well, I'm part German so there's the reason I so like the taste of beer!

David 1

Yeah that's two strikes supercrew!

Didn't the fake wine have a funny sounding name too?

murrill

And I HATED the taste of it---beer, liquor, wine, whatever. But I LOVED being drunk, so I had to drink it to get that way. I guess it takes all kinds of us, doesn't it?

LaFemme

I loved wine for a very long time, and sometimes I enjoyed beer. At the end I hated both but couldn't stop.

The NA wine doesn't taste like wine so it doesn't do anything for me. The NA beer was ok from my memory but I'm staying away from it.

RobertHugh

Appreciate everyone's perspective.

A lot of focus on self-control and the physical allergy, which I get and understand. No spiritual malady--- more of a practical, I drank cause I like the taste and to get high.

Do you guys think that perspective lines up with the AA philosophy?

RobertHugh

Was not intending to put you on the spot. Just trying to understand approaches to recovery that are different than AA.

Supercrew

I think everyones problem is unique to themselves. Just because I feel that I don't need to have other or all aspects of my life changed to deal with my problem with alcohol doesn't mean working a 12 step program and admitting that you are powerless against alcohol isn't a great way to deal with the problem.

Although alcohol was a big part of my life for a very long time and I would even say it defined me in some sense, I have other facets that define me as well, that although were affected by my drinking, they are not problems in my life, like my family, and my relationships and my love of sports. I didn't bring a bunch of baggage into my relationship with alcohol, I came from a great family, I was successful in sports and school, I was well liked by my peers, and I have never had any major emotional problems.

So I don't feel that I need the total support that AA brings to right my life. But as I said each person is different. My problems were purely caused by alcohol. Take alcohol out of the equation and my problem is fixed.

Supercrew

As far as it lining up with the AA philosphy, yes it does if someone who has my problem and is looking for a great support network. I think it could turn off a non-spiritual person. But I think it could really help someone who really wants to drink and might not have the self control to stop on their own even though the pain of drinking far exceeds the pleasure associated with it. If by admitting the alcohol has the power over you and you cannot control it helps a person become sober and well and have piece of mind, it lines up perfectly.

RobertHugh

Thanks for this. Sounds like you and I had similar upbringings...life was pretty darn good. No abuse, no emotional disorders. Everything a growing boy could want.

And yet.

The first time I drank alcohol, I felt like the missing link had been provided. Like I'd been operating in pain but just didn't know it. I would not have described myself as unhappy prior to that...just, existing. But after that first drunken night, I felt...complete. Alive.

I could not recognize this for a long time. I tried to treat the physical aspect of the disease through abstinence. It worked for a long time. And then it didn't, and all hell broke loose.

I now agree with what they say in AA-- I have a three part disease (physical, mental, spiritual) that requires a three part solution (recovery, fellowship, and service).

Appreciate your sharing, SuperCrew.

Supercrew

I'm glad that it works for you! We might have been a little different though. I was pretty complete at the time of my first drink. I was a budding sports star in my community, I was popular with the girls, and I was a very good student. Alcohol just made me a little cooler in my mind, and made me feel like a tough guy and I loved the way the first 3 beers i ever had made me giggle uncontrollably. It was a way for me an the other athletes to bond and act like men. But alcohol did basically ruin my athletic and academic careers because I loved it so much.

RobertHugh

When I finally sat down to read the AA text, I realized just how little the fellowship I experience reflects that philosophy nowadays. That the advice and direction I'd been hearing and passing on over the past 12 years were not the program of recovery in the Big Book. The fellowship was certainly good and positive-- the power of people with a common problem-- but there was very little talk about the solution that is the essence of A.A: the 12 steps.

I had a choice: I could dismiss the book as out of date, and embrace modern AA as a more evolved version of recovery, or I could do what the book says and see what happens.

Someone pointed out to me that Bill Wilson once said "the primary purpose of an AA meeting is the practice of the 12 steps." And that the fellowship actually took its name from the book. So it was hard to dismiss it.

Doing what the book says relieved me of wanting to drink. So that's what I share in meetings today.

As you might guess, it rankles some people.

NoelleR

Although I find this quote a good 'jumping-off' point to get from the third step to working on the fourth step, I way prefer what the doctor had to say (regarding a definition of alcoholism---especially as it related to me and my alcoholism) in his opinion.............:

1) "...We believe, and so suggested a few years ago, that the action of alcohol on these chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy; that the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the average temperate drinker..."

2) "...Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false..."

3) "...After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well-known states of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolve not to drink again. This is repeated over and over..."

4) "...These men were not drinking to escape; they were drinking to overcome a craving beyond their mental control..."

5) "...All these, and many others, have one symptom in common: they cannot start drinking withoug developing the phenomenon of craving..."

I particularly related to numbers 2 and 4 above.


NoelleR

Supercrew

I don't think you sharing your method of recovery "rankles" people. But until someone does subscribe to the teachings of AA and the Big Book, sometimes the way it is presented in an impersonal forum such as this seems to me like getting a knock on the door from the neighborhood rep of the Jehovah Witnesses. Now that is not a bad thing, because many people are here actively looking for help, and the more knocking that is done the more people will find their way to the AA program. And as I said before AA really has helped me with my alcohol problems, and the meetings I attended and the people I met were great and even though I didn't follow the 12 step program to a T, I learn many things that have helped keep me sober these last 47 days, and 13 months or so the previous time I had to get sober.

I apologize if I come off as one of the people it "rankles", but I see everyone here as different, and my experiences in life and my problems with my drinking are unique to me. So even though I feel like I am on the right path I will sometimes read a post or a thread that might make me question my method or make me think that "hey, I haven't had a drink in 47 days, but I am not really sober, I'm just not drinking for now because I haven't been doing it a prescribed way and I'm bound to relapse because I haven't done the steps etc etc." But you know what, this is my issue and my posts shouldn't reflect it so I apologize.

This board has really helped me alot the past month in a half, and I hope it continues to be a positive force in helping others find a successful way to get and stay sober, and I will limit my posting to only subjects that I can bring a positive reinforcment to. I apologize if I have offended anyone here, this is a place that you should be able to come to to keep a positive focus on your recovery and sobriety, not a place where there should be any disharmony. Hell, we are all on the same team trying to accomplish the same goal. I wish everyone here luck in their quest for sobriety. I apologize again.

lildawg

Supercrew - I wasn't involved in this discussion. I don't, however, think you have said anything for which you should apologize. I also hope you don't post less. You always have an interesting point of view to add to the mix. I would guess that any point of view, as long as it's not detrimental to the purpose of this forum, is welcome.

I've read both yours and RobertHugh's posts with interest. Both of you, though you grew up in very different ways than I did, have given me things to ponder. Usually, that just means me thinking about how I ended up where I am today--which is often a place I'm not very proud of ending up. Far from being negative, I think I actually got something positive from both of you.

Having been to this place <grins>, I can tell you that I had no question I was in this place. I reached a point where all I thought about was drinking. I just didn't see the point in not doing it. I knew I had to change or that I was going to go back to drinking. Even though I could go all day every day without drinking, I was horribly, horribly empty--even after 2.5 years sobriety.

I'm trying to make changes because I want to find the serenity I've heard other alcoholics say they found in sobriety. I want to be happier. I would think that each individual coming to a recovery program is looking for something similar, but, still, different.

I say (and some may vehemently disagree) if you feel good about where you are in your sobriety, then, you're in the right place right now for you right now. I strongly believe there is no one true path to sobriety. We each have a responsibility to ourselves to find what works for us, what helps us stay sober if that is our goal.

If you're happy with what you're doing right now, and sobriety feels like a million bucks to you, don't worry about what you "should" be doing or how you "should" be feeling. When things don't feel right any more, IME, that's when it's time to worry.

We each have our own journey to make.

LexieCat

Thanks, lildawg,

That was something I very much needed to read today.

DayTrader

The first time I heard that I was at a meeting and early in my sobriety. I had started to buy into AA, recovery, never drinking again....and so forth but wasn't really "all in" yet. I knew I felt better physically but there was still something terribly wrong and I honestly had NO idea what it was, how to fix it, what to try next. I was "not drinking and going to meetings" but didn't feel anything like "you guys" said you felt. It sure FELT like there had to be more to this deal than: don't drink, go to meetings, bring the body - the mind will follow, grab onto the fellowship and you start to feel better.

"Drinking is but a symptom," when I heard it, was the beginning of a new spiritual awakening for me. It opened my head and my heart to looking beyond "my drinking problem" as the source for my troubles. It got me thinking that maybe I better get my a$$ in gear on these steps, find some sort of God, and get to work on the REAL problem behind the drinking problem.

I remember the meeting, where I was sitting, where the guy was who said it, (but I don't remember WHO it was that said it). It was a concept that was ABSOLUTELY VITAL for me to go forward and start maturing emotionally and spiritually.