Disease or morals
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 185
Disease or morals
I have read so much about addiction, and am so confused as to what to believe. I wish I could believe in something that will end the turmoil. Do I have to reach an all time low achieve this.... I just want an idea that I truly believe, yet I am so sceptical about everything I read... how did you guys find something to hold on to that I cannot... Is it divine intervention or am I just not understanding what all of you with sobriety understand.... I would really appreciate some words that will help x
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 758
From your title I'm guessing your asking if this is a Disease or a moral problem?
If that's the question then I'd say...why does it matter which it is? because the way to beat it is simply to want a better life for yourself and to stop living in pain, so terms don't matter.
Might seem simplistic, but just my thoughts on the whole terminology issue.
Steve
If that's the question then I'd say...why does it matter which it is? because the way to beat it is simply to want a better life for yourself and to stop living in pain, so terms don't matter.
Might seem simplistic, but just my thoughts on the whole terminology issue.
Steve
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CA desert
Posts: 1,599
Dis-ease is the way I view alcoholism and my ability to live life, I experience dis-ease with life, so I drink, then the drink creates it's own dis-ease in my life, so then because I'm not at ease, I drink again, round and round we go. To me it's not a moral question, it's a question of being controlled by a compulsion and obsession with alcohol and the temporary intoxication from drinking it, then the dis-ease whenever I'm not intoxicated, this is the struggle for me. Morals, to me, have nothing to do with it.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,416
I had to reach a low Iriss, but I'm pleased to say there are many folks here smarter than I was.
Readings great but it's not action.
Decide if you want to quit more than you want to drink.
Weigh into that all the factors involved, cos it's not an easy decision.
From this side of the fence I believe there really is only one sensible choice tho
If you want your life back - go for it - use everything you have available to you and get all the support you can find, and never give up til you get there.
D
Readings great but it's not action.
Decide if you want to quit more than you want to drink.
Weigh into that all the factors involved, cos it's not an easy decision.
From this side of the fence I believe there really is only one sensible choice tho
If you want your life back - go for it - use everything you have available to you and get all the support you can find, and never give up til you get there.
D
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Akron OH
Posts: 57
Morals being entirely subjective(/dons flame resistant vest), I would say that it is only a moral problem if you yourself deem it to be such. Personally I feel that it is a dysfunctional way of processing information in your brain. The human brain has evolved over an extremely long period of time during which there was no liquor store around the corner. When you drink and get those euphoric feelings or even just the suspension of stress and other bad emotions, this is seen as a functional behavior when in reality you are poisoning yourself. Indeed in small doses it *could* be a functional behavior, but an alcoholic can't go that route.
It really isn't that different from a morbidly obese fellow who can't stop eating pizza. The mind rewards him for his destructive behavior thinking that it is actually a helpful behavior beneficial to his survival, in spite of the terrible consequences it causes to his physical and mental health. This shouldn't be seen as an excuse for him to keep shoveling the food in(or for us to keep drinking), but it is an explanation of how such a thing can occur.
Sorry that I don't have any good advice on how to stop, I am a newbie myself. /shrug
It really isn't that different from a morbidly obese fellow who can't stop eating pizza. The mind rewards him for his destructive behavior thinking that it is actually a helpful behavior beneficial to his survival, in spite of the terrible consequences it causes to his physical and mental health. This shouldn't be seen as an excuse for him to keep shoveling the food in(or for us to keep drinking), but it is an explanation of how such a thing can occur.
Sorry that I don't have any good advice on how to stop, I am a newbie myself. /shrug
Blu**ed Lines...A ClockWork SR
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: AZ
Posts: 2,529
I'll second Dee. Action... Doing something different is what works. There is so much good info out there and some of it conflicting. Everyone with a problem has a unique set of circumstances (genetic, social, etc.), but the same problem. Are you tryimg to figure out a program/plam of action? Google the HBO website "addiction" for an excellent overview of the many variables that come into play. That being said and ignoring advocates of moral relativism, my belief in short format is that alcoholism does not reflect a base moral deficientcy, and the Disease Model is the most constructive way to view it.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
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A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
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I agree that it is a moot point. When we drink, we often do immoral things. We don't drink BECAUSE we are immoral, we drink because we are alcoholics. WHY we are alcoholics is beside the point, except for researchers and treatment professionals.
Do you have to research the causes of cancer before you go get treated for it, once it's diagnosed? Do you say, gosh, the biopsy says I have breast cancer. But before I go for treatment, I better study up on all of the possible causes of breast cancer. I need to find out whether it is genetic, or whether it was all the caffeine I drank. Or maybe it was those birth-control pills. Hmm, better get busy, because I can't have surgery, or radiation, or chemo, until I figure out exactly what caused these cells to go haywire.
No, you do whatever is necessary to remove the cancer and keep it from coming back. And you do that before musing about why you might have developed the cancer.
There are many effective treatments for alcoholism. They all involve quitting drinking. I like AA, but there are other methods of getting, and staying, sober.
Do you have to research the causes of cancer before you go get treated for it, once it's diagnosed? Do you say, gosh, the biopsy says I have breast cancer. But before I go for treatment, I better study up on all of the possible causes of breast cancer. I need to find out whether it is genetic, or whether it was all the caffeine I drank. Or maybe it was those birth-control pills. Hmm, better get busy, because I can't have surgery, or radiation, or chemo, until I figure out exactly what caused these cells to go haywire.
No, you do whatever is necessary to remove the cancer and keep it from coming back. And you do that before musing about why you might have developed the cancer.
There are many effective treatments for alcoholism. They all involve quitting drinking. I like AA, but there are other methods of getting, and staying, sober.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Between Serenity and Despair
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I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I gotta say this.
You can do all the study in the world, and it isn't going to make you want to quit. It might make you understand the path to recovery or an organization's take on why folks are alcoholics. It's won't make you quit, though.
For me, quitting was associated with an all-time low. Now that I look back, though, I had been passing out by 8 p.m. and exhibiting erratic behavior for a while. One night, I slept on our front lawn. I wet my pants sometimes (just like Hank Williams, Sr. did before he died). Sometimes I got the hiccups and couldn't quit. I puked blood a good bit. I was a gross, out of control drunk.
You don't have to get like that to quit, though. If you see that you can't get through the day without drinks, you know you've got a problem. If you wake up in the morning and have a shot of the hair of the dog that bit you (just to get going), you know you've got a problem. Usually, if you think you've got a problem, you've got a problem.
You're never going to want to quit, though. At least, I didn't. I knew I was at a crossroads, perhaps a point of no return. I could either quit or go ahead and die. I chose to quit.
Look at all the study you've done this way: If you quit tomorrow, you'll already know a whole lot about recovery and what you're going to have to do to get well. It won't be such a learning curve . . . maybe.
I don't have a really intelligent comment about drinking being a moral issue. I'll share what I think, though. Who cares if it's a moral issue or not? If your liver is pickled, it's pickled. If your life is in shambles, it's in shambles. Nobody's going to come by and take the bad stuff your drinking causes away because drinking is or isn't immoral. And if I misunderstood what you meant, I sincerely apologize.
You can do all the study in the world, and it isn't going to make you want to quit. It might make you understand the path to recovery or an organization's take on why folks are alcoholics. It's won't make you quit, though.
For me, quitting was associated with an all-time low. Now that I look back, though, I had been passing out by 8 p.m. and exhibiting erratic behavior for a while. One night, I slept on our front lawn. I wet my pants sometimes (just like Hank Williams, Sr. did before he died). Sometimes I got the hiccups and couldn't quit. I puked blood a good bit. I was a gross, out of control drunk.
You don't have to get like that to quit, though. If you see that you can't get through the day without drinks, you know you've got a problem. If you wake up in the morning and have a shot of the hair of the dog that bit you (just to get going), you know you've got a problem. Usually, if you think you've got a problem, you've got a problem.
You're never going to want to quit, though. At least, I didn't. I knew I was at a crossroads, perhaps a point of no return. I could either quit or go ahead and die. I chose to quit.
Look at all the study you've done this way: If you quit tomorrow, you'll already know a whole lot about recovery and what you're going to have to do to get well. It won't be such a learning curve . . . maybe.
I don't have a really intelligent comment about drinking being a moral issue. I'll share what I think, though. Who cares if it's a moral issue or not? If your liver is pickled, it's pickled. If your life is in shambles, it's in shambles. Nobody's going to come by and take the bad stuff your drinking causes away because drinking is or isn't immoral. And if I misunderstood what you meant, I sincerely apologize.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
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The reason to understand what cause alcoholism is to help to determine the best way to treat it, Imo. And actually I probably would take the same approach to cancer, although I sincerely hope I never have to make that call.
I have done this with every illness I have been faced with personally and with my family and the animals in my care. I know more about laminitas than I ever wanted to.
I have done this with every illness I have been faced with personally and with my family and the animals in my care. I know more about laminitas than I ever wanted to.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal CA
Posts: 1,319
I did need to hit what I felt like was a moral lowpoint to want me to quit drinking more than wanting to drink, and that has helped me find the strength to look for help and support for my problem. The moral lowpoint made me take action and gave me a good reference point as to why I didn't want to drink again.
As far as recovery, I have found it truly enlightening to know that my alcoholism/drinking problem isn't a moral or self control issue, it is a physical defect/diesease/allergy....(whatever you want to call it), that my body processes alcohol differently than most normal drinkers. This is why I have always had an issue with over drinking. Having the knowledge that there is a scientific/medical reason why I can't moderate my drinking has really helped me stay sober, as opposed to thinking that I am just a mentally weak person who can't drink normally. So I needed the moral breakdown to look for the help that gave me the medical answer. (I hope that made sense.)
As far as recovery, I have found it truly enlightening to know that my alcoholism/drinking problem isn't a moral or self control issue, it is a physical defect/diesease/allergy....(whatever you want to call it), that my body processes alcohol differently than most normal drinkers. This is why I have always had an issue with over drinking. Having the knowledge that there is a scientific/medical reason why I can't moderate my drinking has really helped me stay sober, as opposed to thinking that I am just a mentally weak person who can't drink normally. So I needed the moral breakdown to look for the help that gave me the medical answer. (I hope that made sense.)
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
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It's perfectly understandable to wonder if it is really a disease. I did, I kept trying to attach a different label to it, like: addiction. Except that so many people, like oh, 90% of the population can pick up a drink and walk away from it without the slightest thought of having another.
With me it is so different. The process that is set into motion when I take a drink is so astonishing and dramatic....that I know I'm not part of that 90%, period.
So, whatever you want to call the difference, disease, addiction, whatever, all I know is that my body chemistry and my brain reacts to alcohol in a completely different way than other people.
That's enough for me to know, and it is enough to convince me that I am not a bad person, I am not weak. Because I have been so strong in other areas of my life, and I have exerted self control in so many other areas without a problem....except for this one area. I have a disease and like a heart patient or someone with diabetes, I have to take certain measures.
With me it is so different. The process that is set into motion when I take a drink is so astonishing and dramatic....that I know I'm not part of that 90%, period.
So, whatever you want to call the difference, disease, addiction, whatever, all I know is that my body chemistry and my brain reacts to alcohol in a completely different way than other people.
That's enough for me to know, and it is enough to convince me that I am not a bad person, I am not weak. Because I have been so strong in other areas of my life, and I have exerted self control in so many other areas without a problem....except for this one area. I have a disease and like a heart patient or someone with diabetes, I have to take certain measures.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 45
For me, there's both a disease component and a moral component. My brain does not process alcohol the same way that the brain of a person who does not have an alcohol problem does--that's the disease part. Knowing this, though, if I choose to go on a bender anyway, I'm making a conscious moral decision--knowing full well that in the process of making this choice, I'll be harming my body and brain, and likely will say and do things that will injure relationships (including ridiculous text messages and emails). I don't judge my self-worth based on alcohol abuse because I know there's a physiological component beyond my control. However, when I do make a choice that results in hurting myself and others with alcohol, I find some kind of confession helpful to ease the moral guilt. Confession takes many forms--from posting on a message board, to talking to a sponsor or friend, to formal confession with a priest--I think these can all be very helpful ways to "clean the slate" when necessary. The goal, though, is to reach a point where the slip-ups are non-existence, or at least far and few between.
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My sobriety has not been dependent of divine intervention, higher powers or God. I sought a recovery program that made the most sense to me. That being SMART Recovery and like therapies such as CBT. I knew early on that I needed a recovery program that would be meaningful to me. I did a lot of meaningless things in active addiction and I didn't want to carry that over to my recovery. So SMART was a good fit with my life philosophies.
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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I don't believe in god, so quitting alcohol was never a moral question. It was a question of what I wanted with my life. Don't turn a mole hill into a mountain. Don't give alcohol big names like disease or sin. Alcohol is something you do to yourself, and you alone can stop it. Don't treat yourself like trash and you will feel better.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
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Originally Posted by Che 
I don't believe in god, so quitting alcohol was never a moral question.
Back on topic, the Big Book of alcoholics anonymous says that it is a 3 fold disease - physical, mental and spriritual. I tend to agree.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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I hear ya Dee, I hope no no one has to experience the bottom that I did. I am fortunate that I recognized it before alcohol almost killed me.
I pray for those less fortunate than me, that they do recognize what this poison will do before it kills them.
Iriss, I dont want to sound cruel or harsh, but here's an idea that you can believe in. People die every day from this stuff. I know you probably already know this.
You've got to really want to get better. It didnt work for me untill I had 2 choices.
For myself and others that choice was pretty clear. I pray that you will make the right choice before it's too late. You cant make that decision for anyone else but you.
I pray for those less fortunate than me, that they do recognize what this poison will do before it kills them.
Iriss, I dont want to sound cruel or harsh, but here's an idea that you can believe in. People die every day from this stuff. I know you probably already know this.
You've got to really want to get better. It didnt work for me untill I had 2 choices.
For myself and others that choice was pretty clear. I pray that you will make the right choice before it's too late. You cant make that decision for anyone else but you.
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