(w)re(n)lapse
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by keithj 
The problem was not the people or the triggers. The problem was the notion that these things triggered me to drink, and if I could just manage well and run my life a certain way, I'd be OK. This was a delusion and I couldn't see the truth until I could see it. Meanwhile the alcoholism went untreated and I would always find a way to pick up a drink and start the whole thing over.
'I know why I drank' is a delusion that kills alcoholics.
And although delusion did have it's assigned seat at my round table so to speak, I was not clueless as to what drinking did to me and for me. I was not just something full of excuses and delusions. That in itself can be a delusion -- that we know nothing about whatever while drinking with alcoholism or while getting and living sober. I still had a brain back then, and I used it both for good and ill. Then and now.
Triggers also exist for me. Do now and did then. I would be at the peril of my alcoholism should I believe that my sobriety has totally did away with all my triggers. My alcoholism is arrested to be sure. I though am free to frigg things up yet again, you know, so I must be diligent and not careless. I am what I am. A sober alcoholic yes, but alcoholic nonetheless.
I haven't missed what your saying Keith, I don't think. I just don't agree. I fully believe now and back then, that if i lived my life a certain way, I would not continuously suffer from active alcoholism. I did (of course!) have to experience the failure of moderated or controlled drinking to fully understand that final nail in my coffin was complete abstinence. That had to be attempted, and all alcoholics would have some understanding of that experience for themselves, I'm sure.
It seems I was right after all, about myself, looking back now. Kinda of a back to the future thing, i guess. I now live my life a certain way through sober living, and my alcoholism illness is arrested. I'm not perfect and my life proves that daily, LOL, but I'm sober! And have been for many years now. I'll take that no problem and be grateful for the good, the bad, and the whatever my life offers me today.
It's your ESH you shared Keith, so i have every respect of course, you know that. I've shared some more of mine now too.
Cheers!
Rob
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Oh, sure, Rob, I get what you are saying. I knew very well what picking up a drink would achieve for me. A sense of ease and comfort. It would temporarily quiet that internal discomfort.
That discomfort manifested in a hundred ways, ranging from a broken heart, resentment, self-pity, boredom, can't sleep, anxious, depressed, happy, need inspiration, isolating, lost the girl, lost the job, got the girl, got the job, out of money, got the refund check, feelings got hurt, can't calm down, need to relax, that b!tch pissed me off, just hanging with friends, and on and on.
And all that discomfort was the resulting effect of an underlying cause. My alcoholism.
Your agreeing or disagreeing doesn't help wren at all. Here's a guy who decided to stop drinking, and drank again after 3 months. Oldest story in the history of alcoholism. It's a story I know well.
He thinks this woman triggered him to drink. Is that a true statement and is it useful information to him? If it's true, he should stay away from that woman, right? But I don't think either of us believes that his alcoholism is going to get any better by doing that.
That discomfort manifested in a hundred ways, ranging from a broken heart, resentment, self-pity, boredom, can't sleep, anxious, depressed, happy, need inspiration, isolating, lost the girl, lost the job, got the girl, got the job, out of money, got the refund check, feelings got hurt, can't calm down, need to relax, that b!tch pissed me off, just hanging with friends, and on and on.
And all that discomfort was the resulting effect of an underlying cause. My alcoholism.
Your agreeing or disagreeing doesn't help wren at all. Here's a guy who decided to stop drinking, and drank again after 3 months. Oldest story in the history of alcoholism. It's a story I know well.
He thinks this woman triggered him to drink. Is that a true statement and is it useful information to him? If it's true, he should stay away from that woman, right? But I don't think either of us believes that his alcoholism is going to get any better by doing that.
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 464
all good thought provoking dialogue..trying to work this thing out myself..like a jigsaw puzzle..got the corners in place,and some sides,findin now the middle little by little, hungary to understand the whys and hows...
good day.
good day.
stayingstraight
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Lehigh Acres, FL
Posts: 66
Question...Is a TRIGGER the same as an EXCUSE to drink? I have what I call triggers because I know that under certain circumstances and environment I will be tempted to drink. I feel that if I can adequately recognize these in enough time, I will be able to take a moment and consider the consequences of sacrificing my sobriety. Then I will be able to make the decision of whether or not I can handle certain things or if I think it will be too much for me and I'd rather not put myself through it. It does sometimes mean avoiding certain people, places and events. But then...who wants to be around someone, do something or go somwhere that you feel you have to drink to enjoy anyway? Thanks, SS
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Posts: 266
Sorry wren... Thank you for posting and I hope that helps you get back into sobriety soon.
I guess triggers are the same as excuses... To me triggers are those situations that normalise my drinking and those that 'hide' it. In summary:
1. Everybody is drinking so it is OK if I drink too. I am not an alcoholic.
2. Nobody can see me so I can hide it (from myself mainly). I am hiding that I am an alcoholic. I am not alone many times so it cannot be that serious.
And it becomes very much a 'I will find always a reason to drink'.
I think I know what keithj meant - I am very worried that I have your same kind of thought that will inevitably get me into relapse. The fact that deep inside I think it is inevitable. This is when the one day at the time really helps.
I guess triggers are the same as excuses... To me triggers are those situations that normalise my drinking and those that 'hide' it. In summary:
1. Everybody is drinking so it is OK if I drink too. I am not an alcoholic.
2. Nobody can see me so I can hide it (from myself mainly). I am hiding that I am an alcoholic. I am not alone many times so it cannot be that serious.
And it becomes very much a 'I will find always a reason to drink'.
I think I know what keithj meant - I am very worried that I have your same kind of thought that will inevitably get me into relapse. The fact that deep inside I think it is inevitable. This is when the one day at the time really helps.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by keithj
Your agreeing or disagreeing doesn't help wren at all. Here's a guy who decided to stop drinking, and drank again after 3 months. Oldest story in the history of alcoholism. It's a story I know well.
He thinks this woman triggered him to drink. Is that a true statement and is it useful information to him? If it's true, he should stay away from that woman, right? But I don't think either of us believes that his alcoholism is going to get any better by doing that.
He thinks this woman triggered him to drink. Is that a true statement and is it useful information to him? If it's true, he should stay away from that woman, right? But I don't think either of us believes that his alcoholism is going to get any better by doing that.
Who knows? Who cares? Honestly? I don't care what got him drunk. Drunk is drunk. What's the big deal? Having said that, what he offered makes enough sense for me to understand his alcoholism and that living sober is the right way for him to go. Did i miss something? Does he have to dot his i's and cross his t's before i understand? Does he have to prove something to me? I understand he is alcoholic. I'm alcoholic. We all have our own ESH to offer each other. What he offered is enough for me. I've had similar experiences. Good enough for me to work with him getting sober and not waste a whole lot of time explaining why he got drunk.
What i do care about is that Wren (or anyone else) wants to live a sober life. I'm waaaay more interested in what gets guys and gals into living a sober life than what ever got them drunk.
Apparently we have different thinkings and so likewise take different actions on "helping others." Not a problem.
I agree with the idea that avoiding triggers and/or people, places, things or whatevers does absolutely nothing to change my alcoholism. On the other hand, all those things have everything to do with changing my sobriety and how i live my sober life.
Thanks, Keith. I respect you.
Rob
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by stayingstraight
Question...Is a TRIGGER the same as an EXCUSE to drink? I have what I call triggers because I know that under certain circumstances and environment I will be tempted to drink. I feel that if I can adequately recognize these in enough time, I will be able to take a moment and consider the consequences of sacrificing my sobriety. Then I will be able to make the decision of whether or not I can handle certain things or if I think it will be too much for me and I'd rather not put myself through it. It does sometimes mean avoiding certain people, places and events. But then...who wants to be around someone, do something or go somwhere that you feel you have to drink to enjoy anyway? Thanks, SS
The rest of your post makes good sense to me, fwiw. Have a great day!
Robby
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by Wilde10
And it becomes very much a 'I will find always a reason to drink'.
I think I know what keithj meant - I am very worried that I have your same kind of thought that will inevitably get me into relapse. The fact that deep inside I think it is inevitable. This is when the one day at the time really helps.
I think I know what keithj meant - I am very worried that I have your same kind of thought that will inevitably get me into relapse. The fact that deep inside I think it is inevitable. This is when the one day at the time really helps.
Revisiting the depths of your alcoholism with rigorous honesty will reveal what is not allowing your alcoholism to become arrested. Do whatever it takes to stop drinking for good and all and then just be done with it. Move forward spiritually with whatever is truly a life of recovery and being recovered for your wants and needs. Relapsing is not inevitable to an alcoholic living a sober life. No way. Sober guys and gals don't drink, and don't want to drink. Sobriety is not a fools game of chance. It really works!
Rob
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 812
I wonder if what people mean by "triggers" is actually motives. Know what I mean?
In early sobriety, my motives were usually way off the beam when I wanted to revisit people, places, and things. Today I can do so with the right motives, but that took a long time and a lot of step work, especially 10-12.
Even today, I'll review those questions in Working with Others when putting myself in a certain situation. I have a daily reprieve.
In the beginning, my sponsor told me to avoid people, places, and things until I had a spiritual awakening. I think what I understand now is that a spiritual awakening doesn't always blindly protect me like a shield from booze and temptation. Instead, it gives me a keen awareness of my motives.
In early sobriety, my motives were usually way off the beam when I wanted to revisit people, places, and things. Today I can do so with the right motives, but that took a long time and a lot of step work, especially 10-12.
Even today, I'll review those questions in Working with Others when putting myself in a certain situation. I have a daily reprieve.
In the beginning, my sponsor told me to avoid people, places, and things until I had a spiritual awakening. I think what I understand now is that a spiritual awakening doesn't always blindly protect me like a shield from booze and temptation. Instead, it gives me a keen awareness of my motives.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: southern U.S.
Posts: 153
Wow, lot of interesting discussion between a few of you! (now I know why I keep coming back to SR)
Maybe it was a trigger, maybe a motive or an excuse.
Somehow I didn't have the strength or tools to "sit" with the pain. But like someone mentioned previously, "all-weather recovery" is possible. Somehow I'd like to get to the point where I can handle ANY situation/feeling without drinking.
And I agree, I was a train wreck waiting to happen.
Maybe it was a trigger, maybe a motive or an excuse.
Somehow I didn't have the strength or tools to "sit" with the pain. But like someone mentioned previously, "all-weather recovery" is possible. Somehow I'd like to get to the point where I can handle ANY situation/feeling without drinking.
And I agree, I was a train wreck waiting to happen.
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