Sober means SOBER
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 758
Sober means SOBER
Guess sober doesn't mean much to some people. One of my "friends" ( and I lose the term losely) he was a friend I use to drink with 3-4 yrs ago. He got back in touch with me 2/3 weeks ago. Said he didn't drink anymore and wanted me to go to a Detroit Tigers game with him so I said hell yeah (I'm a big tigers fan lol) so we went. At the game he started ordering beers. I asked him why because I thought he said he didn't drink anymore. His reply..
"we'll I dont drink "MUCH"....but a bit.
Guess being sober has it's deffinitions because for me I drank zero at the game, for him not drinking meant 6 beers plus beers after the game.
Nice huh, makes me wonder somtimes why I even bother with "People"....
Steve
"we'll I dont drink "MUCH"....but a bit.
Guess being sober has it's deffinitions because for me I drank zero at the game, for him not drinking meant 6 beers plus beers after the game.
Nice huh, makes me wonder somtimes why I even bother with "People"....
Steve
Next stop: real life
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 990
I've run across this, too. Different people have different definitions of "sober" and "drinking," which boggle my mind a lot of times. My co-worker--whose mother is an active alkie--claims he "doesn't drink." However, he drinks fairly frequently and occasionally to excess. When questioned, his clarification is "well, I drink, but I don't drink." Which, as far as I can tell, means that while he does consume alcohol regularly, he's not addicted to it? To him, "drinking" is what his mother does, and in that context he doesn't drink.
He doesn't seem to get that his claims of being a "non-drinker" might be taken as an affront to those of us who have conquered real drinking problems. Oh well.
I'm glad what he's doing works for him.
(@Sunrise1 -- it's funny, this co-worker is that same kind of vegetarian. He doesn't eat meat, except when he does. We all give him sh*t about that.
)
He doesn't seem to get that his claims of being a "non-drinker" might be taken as an affront to those of us who have conquered real drinking problems. Oh well.
I'm glad what he's doing works for him.(@Sunrise1 -- it's funny, this co-worker is that same kind of vegetarian. He doesn't eat meat, except when he does. We all give him sh*t about that.
)
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,591
Steve, do you think this person is someone trying to figure out how to stop? Or otherwise trying to have it all (stay drinking and reinvigorate friendships that were drifting away)? Sometimes people gravitate back to us when they want to keep the drinking alive and well through the social bonds too. I had a friend I still wonder about, and I kind of dumped him. This was almost 10 years ago, so well before I was ready to quit. I was the one who seemed to question my drinking (and look upon it as alcoholism), and he was like a cling-on, generating reasons to hang around me (drink). I wasn't used to having close friends, so the recipe was there for both of us to nurture alcoholism.
Stu, I might sound protective of DayWalker in my reaction to what you said. When I try to step back from the personal level, I still question why he needs to "mind his own business," even if he is in the process of defining himself in sobriety ("no means no, and I will stick with it; I'm not going to fall into this trap in front of me" and all the rest of the things that go through our heads). It may be that DayWalker has to decide whether he can be around this friend. There are people that remind us of alcoholics but are not necessarily, and others who are just in a different stage of how they deal with it. I don't think he should just turn off discussion about this drinking friend that has reappeared. It wouldn't do a lot of good to sit around judging the person, but I think there is something that can be learned about interactions with people that float back in like this one - even if it is just: "Well, I sure can't do that." It could also be a lesson in what kinds of people can be helped and which ones not.
Stu, I might sound protective of DayWalker in my reaction to what you said. When I try to step back from the personal level, I still question why he needs to "mind his own business," even if he is in the process of defining himself in sobriety ("no means no, and I will stick with it; I'm not going to fall into this trap in front of me" and all the rest of the things that go through our heads). It may be that DayWalker has to decide whether he can be around this friend. There are people that remind us of alcoholics but are not necessarily, and others who are just in a different stage of how they deal with it. I don't think he should just turn off discussion about this drinking friend that has reappeared. It wouldn't do a lot of good to sit around judging the person, but I think there is something that can be learned about interactions with people that float back in like this one - even if it is just: "Well, I sure can't do that." It could also be a lesson in what kinds of people can be helped and which ones not.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
You will attract new people into your life now that are more like you as like attracts like so don't be put off and think you need to avoid all people...an old 'friend' of mine got in contact and i guarantee it will be the same scenario hehe but thats ok its quite funny really;-)
Actually the biggest shock for my 'friend' is going to be when i dont pay the bill for both of us lol
Actually the biggest shock for my 'friend' is going to be when i dont pay the bill for both of us lol
OSSSU!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: West Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by DayWalker 
Guess sober doesn't mean much to some people. One of my "friends" ( and I lose the term losely) he was a friend I use to drink with 3-4 yrs ago. He got back in touch with me 2/3 weeks ago. Said he didn't drink anymore and wanted me to go to a Detroit Tigers game with him so I said hell yeah (I'm a big tigers fan lol) so we went. At the game he started ordering beers. I asked him why because I thought he said he didn't drink anymore. His reply..
"we'll I dont drink "MUCH"....but a bit.
Guess being sober has it's deffinitions because for me I drank zero at the game, for him not drinking meant 6 beers plus beers after the game.
Nice huh, makes me wonder somtimes why I even bother with "People"....
Steve
"we'll I dont drink "MUCH"....but a bit.
Guess being sober has it's deffinitions because for me I drank zero at the game, for him not drinking meant 6 beers plus beers after the game.
Nice huh, makes me wonder somtimes why I even bother with "People"....
Steve
....also, I love your avatar. I'm a huge fight fan and Evan Tanner struggled with his disease for many many years....RIP. That must have been a horrible death....
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 812
How many times have you told someone you stopped drinking--and then you drank again?
You chose to go with an old drinking buddy to an event where drinking is common, and you're surprised he drank in front of you?
I'm not buying it. Sorry!!!
You chose to go with an old drinking buddy to an event where drinking is common, and you're surprised he drank in front of you?
I'm not buying it. Sorry!!!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,591
Originally Posted by Pagekeeper
How many times have you told someone you stopped drinking--and then you drank again?
You chose to go with an old drinking buddy to an event where drinking is common, and you're surprised he drank in front of you?
I'm not buying it. Sorry!!!
You chose to go with an old drinking buddy to an event where drinking is common, and you're surprised he drank in front of you?
I'm not buying it. Sorry!!!
You don't have to buy it, but frankly, if I were THAT cynical, I would choke.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 812
Well, I didn't mean to sound cynical. This is a pretty serious topic, you know.
I've seen stuff like this take people right back out. They go to an event where there is drinking, and they are not ready for it (in AA we call it being spiritually fit, but this is not an AA forum, so I'll just use "not ready"). Today I have a way to check my motives for going to places where alcohol is served. I'm not so sure Steve does, which places his sobriety in danger.
Steve admits he drank with this guy 3-4 years ago. This person calls him out of the blue, says he's not drinking, and remind me why Steve should trust this person he hasn't seen or heard from in how long? If I was putting my sobriety first, I don't know that I'd take a chance on an old drinking buddy at a sporting event, where people are known to drink. Plus, I'm assuming Steve could have left the event when his friend started drinking, but he chose to stay--not just for the game, but for the beers his friend drank after the game.
I've heard this story before. Different location, different people, but it's all the same. Someone goes to an old place with an old person to do the same old thing. Sometimes they are not even aware of how they are setting themselves up. And even if they don't drink at that time--it can still plant the seed. They get over-confident, think they can handle a similar situation, and eventually they are pounding on the bar and asking themselves how they got started again.
Either that or they get serious about staying sober and give up old people, places, and things. I hope and pray that is what Steve will do.
I don't really care what names people call me. I do care that Steve stays sober, if that is what he wants.
I've seen stuff like this take people right back out. They go to an event where there is drinking, and they are not ready for it (in AA we call it being spiritually fit, but this is not an AA forum, so I'll just use "not ready"). Today I have a way to check my motives for going to places where alcohol is served. I'm not so sure Steve does, which places his sobriety in danger.
Steve admits he drank with this guy 3-4 years ago. This person calls him out of the blue, says he's not drinking, and remind me why Steve should trust this person he hasn't seen or heard from in how long? If I was putting my sobriety first, I don't know that I'd take a chance on an old drinking buddy at a sporting event, where people are known to drink. Plus, I'm assuming Steve could have left the event when his friend started drinking, but he chose to stay--not just for the game, but for the beers his friend drank after the game.
I've heard this story before. Different location, different people, but it's all the same. Someone goes to an old place with an old person to do the same old thing. Sometimes they are not even aware of how they are setting themselves up. And even if they don't drink at that time--it can still plant the seed. They get over-confident, think they can handle a similar situation, and eventually they are pounding on the bar and asking themselves how they got started again.
Either that or they get serious about staying sober and give up old people, places, and things. I hope and pray that is what Steve will do.
I don't really care what names people call me. I do care that Steve stays sober, if that is what he wants.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,591
OK, well, I can admit (as I did in an earlier post) that I have a prejudiced viewpoint in his favor, which doesn't always do a person the best good. I also think it's possible to take the best from what you have clarified, for anyone to bear in mind.
On the other hand, I can't help wishing you would have taken a question approach rather than an assuming one. I have seen Steve ask questions and look for critiques on his motives and approaches to decisions. I think this is more about a learning experience that comes up when someone in his new sober world is trusting a friend means what they say; not so much about a person wanting to flirt with drinking, even though it was at a baseball game and with an ex-drinking buddy.
My intuition can be flat wrong.
On the other hand, I can't help wishing you would have taken a question approach rather than an assuming one. I have seen Steve ask questions and look for critiques on his motives and approaches to decisions. I think this is more about a learning experience that comes up when someone in his new sober world is trusting a friend means what they say; not so much about a person wanting to flirt with drinking, even though it was at a baseball game and with an ex-drinking buddy.
My intuition can be flat wrong.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: far far from home
Posts: 373
Lol, in my experience people have all kinds of definitions for sober. I have learned to say "well if he or she says they are sober then that is their business", although its hard for me.
Was going to detox committment once and a dude who asked to come with us started talking about smoking weed, as in something he does daily. We were like "hey man we said you gotta have 90 days to speak" and he says "yeah man I have not drank in 6 months but quitting weed is out of the question".
Plenty of people will be in an AA meeting on all kinds of chemicals stating they are sober. Since that is not an option for me I struggle with judging them. I wish I could have my mood stabilized or some jelly beans to take the edge off. My sponsor has helped me through this all since I am a judgemental jerk, a severe one. He always says to me "God is everything or God is nothing" and that I am not running the show. He also says to me often that maybe those chemicals someone is on is saving both them and us. Who knows? Don't judge them. And I try not to, being an egomaniac that is a hard thing.
But I am coming along slowly, learning that I do not know everything and my advice for how someone runs their life and sobriety is neither warranted or needed. Shut up Chops and stick to your experience.
So in the end I try to say to myself "if someone considers themselves sober then they are sober" but UGH!
So while sober for me is no mind or mood altering substance, some members may differ.
And about going out with a buddy who used to drink. I thought the steps allow us to develop a neutral attitude where we don't fight anybody or anything? We do not even resist temptation. Why then all is this talk about having to change people, places and things if that stuff does not bother us after the steps? Maybe I am confused.
Was going to detox committment once and a dude who asked to come with us started talking about smoking weed, as in something he does daily. We were like "hey man we said you gotta have 90 days to speak" and he says "yeah man I have not drank in 6 months but quitting weed is out of the question".
Plenty of people will be in an AA meeting on all kinds of chemicals stating they are sober. Since that is not an option for me I struggle with judging them. I wish I could have my mood stabilized or some jelly beans to take the edge off. My sponsor has helped me through this all since I am a judgemental jerk, a severe one. He always says to me "God is everything or God is nothing" and that I am not running the show. He also says to me often that maybe those chemicals someone is on is saving both them and us. Who knows? Don't judge them. And I try not to, being an egomaniac that is a hard thing.
But I am coming along slowly, learning that I do not know everything and my advice for how someone runs their life and sobriety is neither warranted or needed. Shut up Chops and stick to your experience.
So in the end I try to say to myself "if someone considers themselves sober then they are sober" but UGH!
So while sober for me is no mind or mood altering substance, some members may differ.
And about going out with a buddy who used to drink. I thought the steps allow us to develop a neutral attitude where we don't fight anybody or anything? We do not even resist temptation. Why then all is this talk about having to change people, places and things if that stuff does not bother us after the steps? Maybe I am confused.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 812
Originally Posted by Chops
And about going out with a buddy who used to drink. I thought the steps allow us to develop a neutral attitude where don't fight anybody or anything? We do not even resist temptation. Why then all is this talk about having to change people, places and things if that stuff does not bother us after the steps? Maybe I am confused.
I don't avoid places where there is drinking if I have a legitimate reason to be there. Still, I review those questions on the bottom of page 101 before going.
And for the record, I avoided people, places, and things until I had a spiritual awakening. My sponsor suggested it, and I did what she told me to do. I wanted what she had and was willing to go to any lengths to get it.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: far far from home
Posts: 373
Originally Posted by Pagekeeper
Yeah, because we are spiritually fit. That is mentioned after step 10. Has Steve gotten to step 10? I doubt it. Otherwise why would he be in an online forum angry over someone drinking in front of him? Does a person who has been placed in a position of neutrality get mad when someone drinks in front of them? If he had developed a neutral attitude, he would have never posted what he did. Obviously he's not spiritually fit, although i called it "not ready" out of respect that this is not an AA forum.
I don't avoid places where there is drinking if I have a legitimate reason to be there. Still, I review those questions on the bottom of page 101 before going.
I don't avoid places where there is drinking if I have a legitimate reason to be there. Still, I review those questions on the bottom of page 101 before going.
He did not drink, maybe he deserves a pat on the back not a slap to the face.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
