sampar

I'm so sick & tired of ppl being ignorant in the fact that Alcoholism is an actual disease. Who gave these ppl the right to tell me its only in your head, your just a selfish person, you just dont want to live like "NORMAL" people etc etc. Now i'm sober 17 months & on a programme that works on principles before personality.................most of the time i can mind my own business & let it over my head. I love this site & all the help i have recieved here but to be honest i'm fed up with ppl who log in to belittle the work i & so many many others have done on their soberity.
The newcomer is the most important person to me,..................is it fair for them to hear all the BS that ignorant people shout at them.
FACT: Alcoholism was offically reconised as A disease by the American Medical Association in 1991
I just want ppl to sit back research our disease before they open their mouths & send another person back out to the bottle. I can look after my self but their are ppl new to all this that are very vunerable & its our job to look after them!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thisisme

I am not offended by your view of alcoholism. I accept it as your view. I accept it BECAUSE it promotes sobriety. Any method that supports sobriety is fine with me, even the ones that place responsibility directly back at the drinker(ie-alcoholism is a choice). I am not ignorant and it is NOT a fact that alcoholism is a disease.
I like to read of others views and take what inspires me. I leave the rest. Maybe you can try and do the same. Each method holds value, each method holds merit.
I do not think "opening mouths" would have saved them from going back to the bottle. The sun rising the next day could easily do the same to someone that fragile.

Best to you in sobriety.
Best to AA, best to Carr, best to sobriety.

intention

Hi Sampar,


We learn when doing Step 4 (more in the 12x12 on this) that we have basic human instincts which are natural and essential to survival like anger and fear but how we use them is anything but natural. We alcoholics do everything in excess, just like the alcohol.

Many alcoholics are codependent too. It is natural and right to take care of others but the codependent takes this too far into caretaking. This is where we are so busy taking care of others that we neglect ourselves and our own feelings.

I spent a lot of time ranting at the world for not looking out for people or hurting the vulnerable who couldn't speak up for themselves. I was always fighting other people's causes. Most of the time it was in my head and nobody else had any idea about all the causes I was fighting.

I justified it to myself that I was looking out for those who could not look out for themselves. The truth was that I was getting resentful and my alcoholic mind loved a good resentment (it's our No 1 offender). That meant I was not taking care of myself. And if I can't take care of myself, then I can't take care of other people - which ironically was why I was getting upset in the first place.

Once I started to understand this behaviour and recognised that I was powerless over it and other people, just like the alcohol and surrendered it......I let go of a whole load of resentments.

I still try to take care of people and look out for them but it is in a healthy, balanced way for me now.

Music

So, practice the principles and leave the personalities alone. Arguing about whether alcohoism is a disease or not accomplishes nothing. I happen to believe it is. Nothing I say to someone will make them drink unless they're already entertaining the idea of doing so. Practice your own program. That'll keep you busy enough.

UniqueNewYork

I don't worry about whether its a desease or not or what non AA people think. What I know is that it will kill me if left untreated. I guess some people believe the addiction is just so powerful that we keep coming back to it again and again because we can't fight the mental battle. Others believe its inherited and passed down, that its in our genes, etc etc. I don't care about the trees I am looking at the forest, and the forest is going to kill me regardless of if it comes from martian dust, the devil, science or whatever.

I see where you are coming from because there are so many ignorant and insecure people in the world ready to stick their leg out and trip you up for their amusement. I witnessed something horrible beyond words. When I met people who laughed because I was shaking from distress (yes this really happened) or who let me know they would tell my coworkers I was in jail for alcohol related offense and not on extended vacation, I found myself saying "I just hope you never know what this feels like".

Let them live in their ignorant world. At the end of the day, if they are that oblivious to what most of us have endured, guess what THATS A GOOD THING!

Impurrfect

I've learned, in my 3 years of recovery, that I have to choose which battles I want to engage. I have a nursing background, and whether that plays into it or not, I do believe it's a disease. However, I accept that other's don't. It's simply not something I choose to argue about, or get a resentment about. There are times I've had to say "we need to agree to disagree and not discuss this". If they persist, I tell them "this is not something I'm going to discuss with you" and I don't.

I understand where you're coming from. When I was out on the streets, I was pulled over by cops and one literally talked to me like a dog. In contrast, the other cops were very nice, knew that I had been a nurse, said "Amy, you don't belong here, PLEASE get off this ****" and one actually pulled me to the side and said "I can tell you where there's a good AA meeting"!! I told the ignorant cop "I truly hope you, or someone you loves never suffers from addiction...you'll regret every word you just said and you'll feel pain you've never felt before" and with that, I walked off.

It took me TIME to get to this point. I thought I was doing great at a year in recovery. Two years? Wow, I was doing fantastic!! Now, having past 3 years? I realize that I am still learning and it's a lifelong growth thing.

I "get" you, and I understand. Just know that the more we work our recovery, these things have a way of working out.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

loveon2legs

It doesn't matter to me one way or another if alcoholism is a disease or a choice...it's done me harm I'm doing my very best every day to stay sober.. and I certainly would never say anything to a newcomer to intentionally hurt them..and I really doubt if by what is said to them would make them go to the bottle....we can't be held accountable for that...!!! I'm still new 4 months...and was welcomed with warm hearts....not one thing posted has ever made me want to drink...even if I didn't like hearing it!! This is what this forum is about...sharing each others views..and support....

DayTrader

According to GenBank there are over 22,000 documented diseases - each with it's own unique DNA signature.

People who think they're not effected by alcoholism aren't going to research it anymore than any of us are going to research all 22,000 of those listed above. They'll just do what everyone else does....restate what they heard someone else say.

What we can do is let people outside whatever fellowship we're part of know that we USED to drink alcoholically but that we found a solution. It's also our duty to "attract" the still-suffering alcoholic to our way of life by demonstrating what our life is like and how cool it can be.

Disease, illness, "myth," I don't care what anyone wants to call it. What matters most to me is that it gets progressively worse over time, effects me in numerous ways and that there IS a way out.

Norther

Bill W prefered the terms "illness" and "malady" (quaint!). He wanted the responsibility on the drunk, and he wanted a term that could comprise the spiritual dimension. That's how I read him anyway.

Peter

Sampar the "disease or not" argument has been circulating now for a long time.

I personally would like to think that the doctors at the AMA knows what they are talking about too but there are other doctors out there who will not support this claim.

I try not to get too embroiled in arguing about whether alcoholism is a disease or not. I simply choose what works for me and thinking of alcoholism/addiction as a "disease" has helped to keep me sober for a very long time.

If accepting alcoholism as a disease is working to keep you sober too then hug it up and snuff out the background noise.

Naysayers are not going to make me pick up a drink.

I understand your need to vent though

stugotz

Its none of my business what other people think. Especially about me. Just sayin...

ImReadyToQuit

Alcoholism is not a disease.. Until 50 years ago, you were. and still are.. a drunk. (along with myself)

Sudz No More

Yeah, I kind of think calling it a disease is bull but that is just my opinion.

We drank our butts off for years and got so addicted that our body craves it all the time. I don't hear people calling crackheads diseased or cigarette addicts diseased, just us hardcore over the top alcoholics. We are just hooked on a habit like so many others, this habit may kill us faster than say overeating but then again maybe it will not.

shaun00

i think im an alcoholic because mum forced fed me sprouts when i was a kid.

is that statement useful to my recovery...........nope.

would it be useful to know whether i should call it a disease......ilnness.. affliction.....nope.

the only thing that matters to me is a solution.........a way out.....i can get wrapped up in those symantics and all the while alcoholism is loading the next stinger missile...

that said it hasnt always been like that.........i have a creaking book case at home full of books on alcoholism........i had the "why" hots for a couple of years.
what did i learn?......not much........only that alcoholics continue to die in their thousands........year in year out.
doesnt help me to stay sober even if its an illness and i may have strange chemicals in my brain that shouldnt there.

Pinkcuda

That's because Crack and Nicotine are physically addicting. Alcohol isn't! With the exception of a select few that we call alcoholics.
I defy anyone to tell me that it's all a matter of control.
Like Duh!!! Why didn't I think of that.

Drapetomaniac

I don't think it's a disease. I think it would lay somewhere in the gray area between a psychatric disease and a learned beahviour. As for the AMA, well at one point homosexuality was a disease and was treated with pills and sometimes electroshock (this happened to my uncle). My name Drapetomaniac was an official 'disease' at one point. It was the disease of a slave who wanted to be free and kept running away from his master.

Like everyone here says it doesn't really matter though does it, what matters is to find a way to quit.

Their is no physical addiction to crack, just extreme psychological addiction. Alcohol addiction can become a physical addiction after daily use for a long time. I've heard plenty of people call crack addiction a disease.

Music

Alcoholism has been described as a disease long before any of us were around so I think I'll just take the word of people who know what they're talking about. It wasn't until after AA was formed that the AMA classified it as a disease.

What I can't understand is this. If a person with cancer were told "look, just work these 12 steps and the cancer will be rendered into remission," those people would jump at the chance. Here, we have a bunch of self-described "drunks" who don't know their butt from their elbow, probably slippin' and slidin' in and out of AA, not to mention a drunken stuper, expressing their expert opinions about a problem that kills and one that in some cases, if a person trys to detox too fast will kill. My dad had a great saying: "When you don't know what you're talking about, why shoot your mouth off and prove how stupid you are. Keep quiet and keep people guessing." Whether or not alcoholism is a disease or not has no bearing on not drinking. Focus on what's important. Don't drink, go to meetings, get a sponsor and work the steps. That's enough to occupy your attention for a while.

ImReadyToQuit

Alcoholism the term was invented by an alcoholic.. Imagine that.. Blame all we've done on a disease.. haha

Sudz No More

OK so maybe it's not as bad as cocaine, the need for more cocaine becomes apparent after only a few hours use but I have to disagree that Alcohol is not Physically addicting. Call it dependence if you like, it is still is a form of addiction to me.

Physical dependence: Withdrawal symptoms when a person stops drinking after a period of excessive drinking. Such symptoms include: anxiety, sweating, nausea, and "the shakes."

smacked

Ditto.. I don't 'believe' in the disease concept. Some people do. Whatever gets people sober and healthier is something I'm not going to come here and argue about. Everyone's recovery program is different, and when they're different from mine, I tend not to assume they are ignorant..but it happens all the time.