Alcoholism is not a Disease - Views
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Alcoholism is not a Disease - Views
Excerpt:
The disease concept was a panacea for many failing medical institutions adding billions to the industry and leading to a prompt evolution of pop-psychology.
Research has shown that alcoholism is a choice, not a disease, and stripping alcohol abusers of their choice, by applying the disease concept, is a threat to the health of the individual.
The disease concept was a panacea for many failing medical institutions adding billions to the industry and leading to a prompt evolution of pop-psychology.
Research has shown that alcoholism is a choice, not a disease, and stripping alcohol abusers of their choice, by applying the disease concept, is a threat to the health of the individual.
Last edited by Dee74; 05-03-2010 at 08:53 PM. Reason: removed advertising link
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That site is just a vehicle to promote the On Line Pharmacy that is advertised. In fact, it essentially is an advertisement.
That on line pharmacy sells drugs without a prescription and the first one mentioned is... yes!! You guessed it...
Naltrexone
Been there with this topic, done with it...
That on line pharmacy sells drugs without a prescription and the first one mentioned is... yes!! You guessed it...
Naltrexone
Been there with this topic, done with it...
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Karl, I don't really bother with that. If you look at it as something you would be dealing with your whole life, then it is like a disease. (For someone with an addiction, that is.)
It wouldn't do me any good to look into all that theorizing. It's academic in the pejorative sense.
It wouldn't do me any good to look into all that theorizing. It's academic in the pejorative sense.
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Originally Posted by Toronto68 
Karl, I don't really bother with that. If you look at it as something you would be dealing with your whole life, then it is like a disease. (For someone with an addiction, that is.)
It wouldn't do me any good to look into all that theorizing. It's academic in the pejorative sense.
It wouldn't do me any good to look into all that theorizing. It's academic in the pejorative sense.
Academic perhaps but it may have the keys to solving our problem... I've been on this forum for a month now (and also a month sober) and I'm amazed at all the relapses, the "back to day one" scenarios. I also hear about this disease we have and I'm not convinced so I started to look into it. (apologies for the link but I thought the TEXT therein was valid). Perhaps the "cure" rate would be higher if we did not keep believing we are somehow affected by some non-existent disease? Just some thoughts as I to have to get my head around this.
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OK, Karl, that's an interesting point. I think skepticism is a good thing, but I guess I am comfortable with the common lingo that gets used. I don't go to AA meetings, but I like to listen to the AA people here. I don't believe in Jesus from a worship standpoint, but I like to listen to the ones that do. I get bored with the medical technicalities (and umpteen variations thereupon), but it's interesting to match up my experience with what I read. It's the commonalities that work for people apparently.
I suppose I still don't believe it's a disease from a technical standpoint, but it's a state that takes hold of so many people for so long (if not their whole lives). It's like saying you're 41 when you turn 41 very soon - might as well "be" 41. It's as though a metaphor becomes the word for the definition. And we compare the state to being sick so easily.
I had an inkling that you were out to "refute" things through a kind of personal resistance to the idea, a way of defying the possibility of being linked to a stigma or a weakness. I guess that was leaping to conclusions. If you do have the addiction that is synonymous with disease, then a month is an amazing length of time to be away from it.
I don't know the answer to why relapses occur, unless I'm allowed to say so philosophically. I think they are avoided by a new kind of faith and a focus. More mysterious than muscle tissue and weight. And I guess if we say "disease," we should also be comfortable speaking of a "cure." But that doesn't seem to be the norm. I know I don't believe there is a cure, only more time not drinking. At least those are my thoughts today.
Right now I am suffering from a different thing I consider a "disease" - insomnia. So if I sound stranger than usual, I blame it on that.
I suppose I still don't believe it's a disease from a technical standpoint, but it's a state that takes hold of so many people for so long (if not their whole lives). It's like saying you're 41 when you turn 41 very soon - might as well "be" 41. It's as though a metaphor becomes the word for the definition. And we compare the state to being sick so easily.
I had an inkling that you were out to "refute" things through a kind of personal resistance to the idea, a way of defying the possibility of being linked to a stigma or a weakness. I guess that was leaping to conclusions. If you do have the addiction that is synonymous with disease, then a month is an amazing length of time to be away from it.
I don't know the answer to why relapses occur, unless I'm allowed to say so philosophically. I think they are avoided by a new kind of faith and a focus. More mysterious than muscle tissue and weight. And I guess if we say "disease," we should also be comfortable speaking of a "cure." But that doesn't seem to be the norm. I know I don't believe there is a cure, only more time not drinking. At least those are my thoughts today.
Right now I am suffering from a different thing I consider a "disease" - insomnia. So if I sound stranger than usual, I blame it on that.
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Karl, if you're the guy I'm thinking about then weren't you an extremely light drinker?
To have those thoughts and to chastise others about how easy it's been to quit - perhaps you're not an alcoholic and have little understanding of the problems that people on this site face in day to day life in their struggle with alcohol.
To have those thoughts and to chastise others about how easy it's been to quit - perhaps you're not an alcoholic and have little understanding of the problems that people on this site face in day to day life in their struggle with alcohol.
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Karl:
This topic has been discussed MANY time on this board, in the years I have been here.
I have been sober a long time now (coming up on 29 years). When I first came into recovery AA was pretty much the only game in town. The fact that it was called a 'disease' back then didn't matter.
What mattered to me was that I died from this affliction (yes, the ER Dr was putting the TOD on my chart when my heart started on its own). So, I had to figure out what I could do for me to conquer this affliction.
Now about 10 years ago I was diagnosed as a Diabetic. Diabetes is a disease and there are certain things I MUST do to keep it in check. Those things require a certain diet, exercise, awareness at all times of my blood sugar levels, and Insulin and oral medication. This keeps my diabetes in check, however, to date, it will never be cured.
With my alcoholism there are certain things I MUST do to keep it in check. Abstinence, changing my old ways of doing and saying things etc. This keeps my alcoholism in check, however, to date it will never be cured.
So to me ....................................... my alcoholism is as much of a disease as my diabetes is. By practicing certain things on a DAILY basis I can keep both in check.
Call alcoholism a disease, don't call it a disease, doesn't matter, there are 'ways' (different programs, AA, SMART, CBT, etc) today to keep it in check so that those of us afflicted can lead SOBER PRODUCTIVE LIVES.
J M H O
I see you are also a fan of Ayn Rand. Isn't it amazing that we are seeing "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead" being played out today in our society?
Love and hugs,
This topic has been discussed MANY time on this board, in the years I have been here.
I have been sober a long time now (coming up on 29 years). When I first came into recovery AA was pretty much the only game in town. The fact that it was called a 'disease' back then didn't matter.
What mattered to me was that I died from this affliction (yes, the ER Dr was putting the TOD on my chart when my heart started on its own). So, I had to figure out what I could do for me to conquer this affliction.
Now about 10 years ago I was diagnosed as a Diabetic. Diabetes is a disease and there are certain things I MUST do to keep it in check. Those things require a certain diet, exercise, awareness at all times of my blood sugar levels, and Insulin and oral medication. This keeps my diabetes in check, however, to date, it will never be cured.
With my alcoholism there are certain things I MUST do to keep it in check. Abstinence, changing my old ways of doing and saying things etc. This keeps my alcoholism in check, however, to date it will never be cured.
So to me ....................................... my alcoholism is as much of a disease as my diabetes is. By practicing certain things on a DAILY basis I can keep both in check.
Call alcoholism a disease, don't call it a disease, doesn't matter, there are 'ways' (different programs, AA, SMART, CBT, etc) today to keep it in check so that those of us afflicted can lead SOBER PRODUCTIVE LIVES.
J M H O
Who is John Gaut?
Love and hugs,
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Karl
When I saw my psychiatrist a little over three months ago, she told me alcoholism was a disease. I believed her. She also told me I would die if I did not stop drinking. I believed her. I didn't arm-wrestle with her about the definition of my condition or her prognosis. I stopped drinking, and it has saved my life. Subjectively, the debate around the definition is inconsequential.
When I saw my psychiatrist a little over three months ago, she told me alcoholism was a disease. I believed her. She also told me I would die if I did not stop drinking. I believed her. I didn't arm-wrestle with her about the definition of my condition or her prognosis. I stopped drinking, and it has saved my life. Subjectively, the debate around the definition is inconsequential.
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My wife introduced me to some new friends of hers yesterday.
its a couple.....i guess mid to late forties.
both were born without arms and legs....
Man......we had a scream.......been a long time since ive met such nice people.
Their not bothered wherever they were born like they are because of a drug their mothers took when pregnant.....
And if they were, would they be able to reverse it???........nope
these people live in the solution.....and the solution for them is to live life to the max.....and some.
Im not bothered whether alcoholism is a disease or not......all im bothered about is living in the solution to that dilema.......for me that means a life guided by god and the BB.
Same as the "why am i alcoholic" head mash........
im convinced its because mum force fed me sprouts when i was a kid...lol...
who cares...........and what would be the benefits of knowing all the reasons and answers.....not much.
As a side note.......we have booked a cruise with those new friends...over new year down round the med.
i love being around people that live life instead of trying to find the reason for it.
Just my thoughts.
its a couple.....i guess mid to late forties.
both were born without arms and legs....
Man......we had a scream.......been a long time since ive met such nice people.
Their not bothered wherever they were born like they are because of a drug their mothers took when pregnant.....
And if they were, would they be able to reverse it???........nope
these people live in the solution.....and the solution for them is to live life to the max.....and some.
Im not bothered whether alcoholism is a disease or not......all im bothered about is living in the solution to that dilema.......for me that means a life guided by god and the BB.
Same as the "why am i alcoholic" head mash........
im convinced its because mum force fed me sprouts when i was a kid...lol...
who cares...........and what would be the benefits of knowing all the reasons and answers.....not much.
As a side note.......we have booked a cruise with those new friends...over new year down round the med.
i love being around people that live life instead of trying to find the reason for it.
Just my thoughts.
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Originally Posted by Ronan
Karl, if you're the guy I'm thinking about then weren't you an extremely light drinker?
To have those thoughts and to chastise others about how easy it's been to quit - perhaps you're not an alcoholic and have little understanding of the problems that people on this site face in day to day life in their struggle with alcohol.
To have those thoughts and to chastise others about how easy it's been to quit - perhaps you're not an alcoholic and have little understanding of the problems that people on this site face in day to day life in their struggle with alcohol.
Every action has consequence.
Mine was starting to affect my life so I made a decision.
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Originally Posted by laurie6781
I see you are also a fan of Ayn Rand. Isn't it amazing that we are seeing "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead" being played out today in our society?
Love and hugs,
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
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Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Early sobriety is difficult and yes....many of us had false
starts on our journey to recovery.
That has no bearing on the fact ......
we can and do recover......
Call alcoholism wahtever you want
if you are an active alcoholic....
keep seeking and you too can win over alcohol
Forward we go...side by side
starts on our journey to recovery.
That has no bearing on the fact ......
we can and do recover......
Call alcoholism wahtever you want
if you are an active alcoholic....
keep seeking and you too can win over alcohol
Forward we go...side by side
I got nothin'
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Originally Posted by SoberKarl
Research has shown that alcoholism is a choice, not a disease, and stripping alcohol abusers of their choice, by applying the disease concept, is a threat to the health of the individual.
Alcoholism is not a choice. Drinking is a choice.
Knowing this doesn't absolve a person's responsibility to take care of him/herself. It does not inherently give a person an excuse to keep drinking. Someone who wants to drink will find absolutely any reason...or none at all...to drink.
I can’t pick up a drink, snap my fingers, and pronounce myself free of alcoholism simply because I choose not to be an alcoholic. Something is obviously messed up in my brain that keeps me drinking….and drinking. This isn’t something I can turn on and off at will…much like my depression. Those things are there and it’s my responsibility to handle these conditions/disorders/illness/etc. I handle the alcoholism by not drinking. I have a choice as to how my condition manifests…but it’s still there no matter how I live my life.
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