Alcoholism is not a Disease - Views
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Some facts about addiction....from Time
How We Get Addicted - TIME
And.....
ALCOHOL'S DAMAGING EFFECTS ON THE BRAIN
And......
Alcohol and Brain
I saved my sanity with recovery...so can you.
Please stop drinking...abd stat stopped.
The future is too precious to waste.....
How We Get Addicted - TIME
And.....
ALCOHOL'S DAMAGING EFFECTS ON THE BRAIN
And......
Alcohol and Brain
I saved my sanity with recovery...so can you.
Please stop drinking...abd stat stopped.
The future is too precious to waste.....
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 541
Originally Posted by LetsGoJets 
The Big Book of AA never calls it a "disease" it does call it an "illness" and i believe there are subtle differences between the two.
While many AA members refer to it as disease in meetings, AA does not.
Wilson explained in 1960 why he avoided using the term "disease":
"We AAs have never called alcoholism a disease because, technically speaking, it is not a disease entity. For example, there is no such thing as heart disease. Instead there are many separate heart ailments or combinations of them. It is something like that with alcoholism. Therefore, we did not wish to get in wrong with the medical profession by pronouncing alcoholism a disease entity. Hence, we have always called it an illness or a malady — a far safer term for us to use."
Because of tradition 10 , and because of the AA program in the BB ( we cease fighting everything and everyone) , you will rarely see AA' engage in this debate, as you can see by some of the posts here.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brighton UK
Posts: 328
I think alcoholism is a disease. When a person becomes dependent upon it his or her body and mind has changed, and is in a state of dis-ease - a condition that requires the alcoholic to ensure alcohol blood levels are high enough to prevent withdrawal symptoms from appearing. The good news is that this dependency can be reduced by the cessation of alcohol use. I hope to be cured myself soon.
Thriving sober since 12/18/08
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,115
I think its good to explore your troubles with alcohol, I also found that instead of labeling what I was dealing with, or how I may be afflicted with something or not, I found a lot of healing in focusing on MY why's and what's as the one truth I DO know is that drinking the way I did would kill me or destroy areas in my life that I treasure.
Also, I think we read a lot about relapses on this board because a lot of people only post when they're struggling the most. Lots of us have some significant sober time under our belt and help support those who need it.
Lots of us have achieved sobriety not 'believing' in the disease model. Lots of us have found recovery though other methods than AA. All I know for sure is that we all seem to share the common thread of having a realization that drinking became unhealthy for us..the rest is an intimately personal journey full of achievements and struggles.
Also, I think we read a lot about relapses on this board because a lot of people only post when they're struggling the most. Lots of us have some significant sober time under our belt and help support those who need it.
Lots of us have achieved sobriety not 'believing' in the disease model. Lots of us have found recovery though other methods than AA. All I know for sure is that we all seem to share the common thread of having a realization that drinking became unhealthy for us..the rest is an intimately personal journey full of achievements and struggles.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Orleans, LA/Charlotte, NC
Posts: 78
I could get into lengthy scientific discussions about this and we could debate until we pass out...I study learning and plasticity in the brain and addiction comes up a LOT in my work and research. In my own personal opinion, I've thought both ways at different points in my path with alcoholism. What I ultimately decided, though, was that I (and I would like very much to emphasize the I part, because this is my experience and only mine and I don't dare be so bold as to assume it generalizes to anyone outside of me, though it might) was rationalizing away what I was doing either way. When I started thinking about what I may or may not "have," I was looking for excuses not to deal with it - if it's a disease, it's not my fault, I can't control it; if it's a choice, then I can quit whenever I want. On both sides of the argument, I was looking for reasons to drink. Now I just know that whatever it is, it's a problem for me and I need help fixing it. I understand that that is probably not the point of your post so please don't take it as such - this is just what I came to recognize about my own self when I was going through the whole disease/not-disease thing.
Though, I would tend to say that the general opinion in the literature and scientific community is that there is something distinctly different in an addict's brain - though it has really yet to be identified - that changes how they approach and use alcohol or other mind-altering substances. Call it a disease, call it genetics, call it Albert...doesn't matter...if it's affecting one's life negatively, then help is available should one decide one needs it.
Though, I would tend to say that the general opinion in the literature and scientific community is that there is something distinctly different in an addict's brain - though it has really yet to be identified - that changes how they approach and use alcohol or other mind-altering substances. Call it a disease, call it genetics, call it Albert...doesn't matter...if it's affecting one's life negatively, then help is available should one decide one needs it.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,938
Alcoholism as a disease or not only matters if my recovery is hindered by my beliefs. If thinking alcoholism is a disease can help me find a treatment modality that will help me recover, then I'll go that route. If not then I'll change my beliefs to match another treatment regimen. Everything else aside, the belief in myself and my ability to recover is the most important belief I can have in recovery.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,591
Karl, why did you get miffed about being presumed to be the one who was only a "moderate" drinker who could quit easily? There is a bit of a naysayer in you. People usually say to steer away from situations when someone could offer you a beer (you accepted one, so that you wouldn't be rude). People try to reconstruct things to do with their spare time (you went to a wine farm). People begin to look at other ways to indulge in pleasures and consider that having wine at the dinner table doesn't have to be the only way to have a nicely civilized meal (you said that it's what normal do and even said that people who have never even bothered to drink are NOT normal).
Was none of that daring or flippant? Of course it was or it looks like it. You march to your drum, and that's likeable enough. If you're in the mood for any recommendations, I would suggest looking at the motives though. If there is an underlying interest in being that different one who can "beat" this thing and drink normally and be normal, well, you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. (I think it's possible, but extremely rare, and I am not planning on being that person. I prefer the path that excludes drinking.) If that is not the case and you are not looking to be the unique person who transforms back into a non-addictive drinker, then you should be more patient when someone rejects the notions that seem to run counter to the belief system that works for them. Because that is when some (not all) of those people have potential to feel miffed. There's cause and effect there too.
Aside from all of that, I don't think it's such a bad thing to be a questioner. Changes for the better start with that kind of curiosity - or defiance. Such as one month of not drinking as a result of action taken. Apparently you have an issue with your experience of alcohol and wanted it to stop, and so you are here; and I relate to that. If investigating the question of disease vs not disease does anything meaningful for you for a good length of time, I just wouldn't understand why.
Was none of that daring or flippant? Of course it was or it looks like it. You march to your drum, and that's likeable enough. If you're in the mood for any recommendations, I would suggest looking at the motives though. If there is an underlying interest in being that different one who can "beat" this thing and drink normally and be normal, well, you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. (I think it's possible, but extremely rare, and I am not planning on being that person. I prefer the path that excludes drinking.) If that is not the case and you are not looking to be the unique person who transforms back into a non-addictive drinker, then you should be more patient when someone rejects the notions that seem to run counter to the belief system that works for them. Because that is when some (not all) of those people have potential to feel miffed. There's cause and effect there too.
Aside from all of that, I don't think it's such a bad thing to be a questioner. Changes for the better start with that kind of curiosity - or defiance. Such as one month of not drinking as a result of action taken. Apparently you have an issue with your experience of alcohol and wanted it to stop, and so you are here; and I relate to that. If investigating the question of disease vs not disease does anything meaningful for you for a good length of time, I just wouldn't understand why.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 638
I don't know if I view it as a disease or not. In some aspects yes because like a disease there is no cure and it is life long. All the verbage doesn't really matter to me. I just know that drinking is unhealthy to me since I would go crazy and drink bottles for days until being taken to the hospital. Disease or not I can't do it.
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,772
Originally Posted by Bamboozle
Alcoholism is not a choice. Drinking is a choice.
Knowing this doesn't absolve a person's responsibility to take care of him/herself. It does not inherently give a person an excuse to keep drinking. Someone who wants to drink will find absolutely any reason...or none at all...to drink.
I can’t pick up a drink, snap my fingers, and pronounce myself free of alcoholism simply because I choose not to be an alcoholic. Something is obviously messed up in my brain that keeps me drinking….and drinking. This isn’t something I can turn on and off at will…much like my depression. Those things are there and it’s my responsibility to handle these conditions/disorders/illness/etc. I handle the alcoholism by not drinking. I have a choice as to how my condition manifests…but it’s still there no matter how I live my life.
Knowing this doesn't absolve a person's responsibility to take care of him/herself. It does not inherently give a person an excuse to keep drinking. Someone who wants to drink will find absolutely any reason...or none at all...to drink.
I can’t pick up a drink, snap my fingers, and pronounce myself free of alcoholism simply because I choose not to be an alcoholic. Something is obviously messed up in my brain that keeps me drinking….and drinking. This isn’t something I can turn on and off at will…much like my depression. Those things are there and it’s my responsibility to handle these conditions/disorders/illness/etc. I handle the alcoholism by not drinking. I have a choice as to how my condition manifests…but it’s still there no matter how I live my life.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Karma Amputee
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Among The Living
Posts: 769
IMO, Alcoholism is NOT actually a disease per se, but it's not just some moral failing either or a simple bad choice. It's more of an allergy as I understand the difference between the two. Not trying to be controversial or a dick or anything, and I could be totally wrong, that would be OK and I'd still want to maintain my sobriety and my freedom from addiction moving forward and by that I mean to say whether I have "the disease" or "the allergy" or not...
ADDICTION is a disease as I understand it, and alcoholism is an addiction, really like any other addiction but historically it's been put in a special category all by itself probably because of the widespread use and availability of alcohol in the world and the US in particular. If crack was just as available and just as legal and just as common, perhaps we would have a special class of addict called a crackaholic or crackaddict. Instead we just call it addiction, or drug addiction and because of it's legal status we tend to demonize it. Alcohol is an addictive drug BUT if you have the allergy of alcoholism (the disease) and not everybody does just like not everybody is allergic to peanuts; then you will have an especially difficult time with alcohol while you are actively consuming it and you will have an especially difficult time giving it up. This is because of the allergy (or disease) you have which makes your relationship to alcohol VERY different from that of people who do not have it.
To me it's very simple, or it has become simple for me to understand.
So it really does not matter what you call it (God or Higher Power, disease or allergy) in the end we are probably talking about the same thing if we are not coming from an egotistical self centered point of view and we are being intellectually honest without projecting.
That make any sense?
ADDICTION is a disease as I understand it, and alcoholism is an addiction, really like any other addiction but historically it's been put in a special category all by itself probably because of the widespread use and availability of alcohol in the world and the US in particular. If crack was just as available and just as legal and just as common, perhaps we would have a special class of addict called a crackaholic or crackaddict. Instead we just call it addiction, or drug addiction and because of it's legal status we tend to demonize it. Alcohol is an addictive drug BUT if you have the allergy of alcoholism (the disease) and not everybody does just like not everybody is allergic to peanuts; then you will have an especially difficult time with alcohol while you are actively consuming it and you will have an especially difficult time giving it up. This is because of the allergy (or disease) you have which makes your relationship to alcohol VERY different from that of people who do not have it.
To me it's very simple, or it has become simple for me to understand.
So it really does not matter what you call it (God or Higher Power, disease or allergy) in the end we are probably talking about the same thing if we are not coming from an egotistical self centered point of view and we are being intellectually honest without projecting.
That make any sense?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by Toronto68
Karl, why did you get miffed about being presumed to be the one who was only a "moderate" drinker who could quit easily? There is a bit of a naysayer in you. People usually say to steer away from situations when someone could offer you a beer (you accepted one, so that you wouldn't be rude). People try to reconstruct things to do with their spare time (you went to a wine farm). People begin to look at other ways to indulge in pleasures and consider that having wine at the dinner table doesn't have to be the only way to have a nicely civilized meal (you said that it's what normal do and even said that people who have never even bothered to drink are NOT normal).
Was none of that daring or flippant? Of course it was or it looks like it. You march to your drum, and that's likeable enough. If you're in the mood for any recommendations, I would suggest looking at the motives though. If there is an underlying interest in being that different one who can "beat" this thing and drink normally and be normal, well, you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. (I think it's possible, but extremely rare, and I am not planning on being that person. I prefer the path that excludes drinking.) If that is not the case and you are not looking to be the unique person who transforms back into a non-addictive drinker, then you should be more patient when someone rejects the notions that seem to run counter to the belief system that works for them. Because that is when some (not all) of those people have potential to feel miffed. There's cause and effect there too.
Aside from all of that, I don't think it's such a bad thing to be a questioner. Changes for the better start with that kind of curiosity - or defiance. Such as one month of not drinking as a result of action taken. Apparently you have an issue with your experience of alcohol and wanted it to stop, and so you are here; and I relate to that. If investigating the question of disease vs not disease does anything meaningful for you for a good length of time, I just wouldn't understand why.
Was none of that daring or flippant? Of course it was or it looks like it. You march to your drum, and that's likeable enough. If you're in the mood for any recommendations, I would suggest looking at the motives though. If there is an underlying interest in being that different one who can "beat" this thing and drink normally and be normal, well, you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. (I think it's possible, but extremely rare, and I am not planning on being that person. I prefer the path that excludes drinking.) If that is not the case and you are not looking to be the unique person who transforms back into a non-addictive drinker, then you should be more patient when someone rejects the notions that seem to run counter to the belief system that works for them. Because that is when some (not all) of those people have potential to feel miffed. There's cause and effect there too.
Aside from all of that, I don't think it's such a bad thing to be a questioner. Changes for the better start with that kind of curiosity - or defiance. Such as one month of not drinking as a result of action taken. Apparently you have an issue with your experience of alcohol and wanted it to stop, and so you are here; and I relate to that. If investigating the question of disease vs not disease does anything meaningful for you for a good length of time, I just wouldn't understand why.
Hold on - I decided to stop but I live in the real world.... I should have the strength to say no when required. Perhaps I'll be one of those that post in 6 months and say "Its day one again" - who knows but I've made the decision not to drink in excess any-more (zero for now to detoxify and perhaps never again, who knows) - That should be enough.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by Bamboozle
This isn’t something I can turn on and off at will…much like my depression.
Whats next? Will smoking become the next disease?
Go ask the Multivax
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Originally Posted by SoberKarl
I think you misunderstood - I'm not fond of people pre-supposing that my condition is any better or worse than anyone else's. "Perhaps if I was a REAL alcoholic I would understand" - (sic)
Hold on - I decided to stop but I live in the real world.... I should have the strength to say no when required. Perhaps I'll be one of those that post in 6 months and say "Its day one again" - who knows but I've made the decision not to drink in excess any-more (zero for now to detoxify and perhaps never again, who knows) - That should be enough.
Hold on - I decided to stop but I live in the real world.... I should have the strength to say no when required. Perhaps I'll be one of those that post in 6 months and say "Its day one again" - who knows but I've made the decision not to drink in excess any-more (zero for now to detoxify and perhaps never again, who knows) - That should be enough.
"Hold on - I decided to stop but I live in the real world.... I should have the strength to say no when required."
A world full of diseases addictions, cancers, depression, what-have-you.
The reality is - Humanity is littered with disorders that need treatment. If not treated for cancer people will die. If the addict/alcoholic doesn't stop drinking - Then some of those people will die. It's kind of Darwinian, nature's way of weeding you out. - That's reality.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Poconos PA
Posts: 1,544
Disease or not, I wouldn't be coming here several times a day if I was trying to quit chewing gum. The behavioral modifications we have all experienced that seem to never go away even after fully stopping speaks volumes.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by Alizerin
The reality is - Humanity is littered with disorders that need treatment. If not treated for cancer people will die. If the addict/alcoholic doesn't stop drinking - Then some of those people will die. It's kind of Darwinian, nature's way of weeding you out. - That's reality.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Chemically alcohol is a liquid toxin.
I don't consider drinking a toxin normal.....
Hope you choose to quit drinking poison Karl.
It effects every drinker not only alcoholics.
I don't consider drinking a toxin normal.....
Hope you choose to quit drinking poison Karl.
It effects every drinker not only alcoholics.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 525
Is a tomato a fruit or a vegetable?
Is a platypus a fish or a mammal?
Just because humans don't have a good way to classify and label something,
and therefore it confuses us because it doesn't fit into our prestructured categories, doesn't mean that the world around us is different.
Alcohol causes problems. Those are its effects on me.
Asbestos causes problems in me too. I stay away from it as well.
How i label these things doesn't change how i treat them.
But sometimes it's fun to play these games with words.
And i may be wrong, but i believe the phrase is
"Who is John Galt?"
Is a platypus a fish or a mammal?
Just because humans don't have a good way to classify and label something,
and therefore it confuses us because it doesn't fit into our prestructured categories, doesn't mean that the world around us is different.
Alcohol causes problems. Those are its effects on me.
Asbestos causes problems in me too. I stay away from it as well.
How i label these things doesn't change how i treat them.
But sometimes it's fun to play these games with words.
And i may be wrong, but i believe the phrase is
"Who is John Galt?"
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,896
Why do you care what we call it? These kinds of threads almost always end up being closed. This is an alcohol recovery board, not a you won't have an alcohol problem if you stop thinking of it as a disease board. 
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