Ultimatums.....
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
Iwantcontrol:
I love your user name because "I want control" is one of the primary character defects that both codies and alcoholics have to struggle with. Do I want control as a codie and an alcoholic? You betcha. Do I have it, or can I ever have as much control as I want?
Nep, of course not. Letting go and learning to stop controlling everything and everyone has been my primary challenge in recovery as a codie and an alcoholic.
I want control was my alcoholic and codependent mantra for over 30 years. Whew...and I never had it.
You wrote: Are you possibly assuming you have the character traits to overcome this, and he doesn't? Maybe you are falling back into seeing alcoholism as a bad habit that can be overcome with simple will power.
Iwantcontrol wrote: You can't assume he is making a choice between you and the drink or sobriety and the drink. It is two different things.
Thats a good point yes, but the process isn't all that simple. The statistics are scary: 3 out of 10 who try rehab stay sober. SOOOO many people leave rehab thinking it is a quick fix and then find themselves drinking/drugging within days. They tell everyone in rehab that it is just a start of a very long journey, and it is.
Absolutely right: it is so hard to see alcoholism as a disease when it does seem so self inflicted. But please consider the allergy disease theory and read up on information about how the liver and the brain are deeply affected by those individuals who have an allergic reaction to alcohol. There is an excellent book called "Under the influence" that provides a great deal of information about genetic tolerance and intolerance to alcohol and how certain groups of people are at risk for being alcohol intolerant.
I know it is insane and frustrating to watch an alcoholic pour that liquor down their throat and you think "why can't they just stop"...but every single cell in my body was screaming for that drink and I poured it down to cure myself from the physical pain and the mental demons that were in complete control of my life. Did I hate taking that drink? Of course. I hated everything about it.
I love your user name because "I want control" is one of the primary character defects that both codies and alcoholics have to struggle with. Do I want control as a codie and an alcoholic? You betcha. Do I have it, or can I ever have as much control as I want?
Nep, of course not. Letting go and learning to stop controlling everything and everyone has been my primary challenge in recovery as a codie and an alcoholic.
I want control was my alcoholic and codependent mantra for over 30 years. Whew...and I never had it.
You wrote:
have even felt myself thinking sometimes that I wish it were me who was the alcoholic and not him, and then it would be up to me alone to fix it.
Iwantcontrol wrote:
I know I need to fix myself, but I still want to be with him and it's difficult to accept that he'd rather be an A than be sober with me, but thats what it boils down to I guess.
Part of it is that I think if he will just go to rehab and try it, then he will either succeed in recovery or he will fail and give up. If it is the latter then at least I know he's tried all the tools available to him, and it was just that he wasnt ready to quit. Then I think it would be easier for me to let go. But I could be convicning myself here.
It's hard to think of alcoholism in the same way as cancer or another disease because of all the behaviour that goes with it, and because you can see them pouring the alcohol into themselves knowing what it will do to them and their friends and families.
I know it is insane and frustrating to watch an alcoholic pour that liquor down their throat and you think "why can't they just stop"...but every single cell in my body was screaming for that drink and I poured it down to cure myself from the physical pain and the mental demons that were in complete control of my life. Did I hate taking that drink? Of course. I hated everything about it.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by littlefish 
You can't assume he is making a choice between you and the drink or sobriety and the drink. It is two different things.
....Mark
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by freya
Let me get this straight, you are coming into an Alcoholism Forum and trying to get a bunch of alcoholics to collude in supporting your attempts to disrespect and control your alcoholic??????
Wow, I guess you do want control...
...and he wants to drink.
It seems a little odd to me that you are so focused on him acting out of his disease that you appear to be completely blind to the fact that your wanting to control him and seeking justification for issuing manipulative ultimatums is a perfect example of you acting out of yours.
The irony is a little thick here.
Not for nothin', but how come you get to act out of yours and he doesn't?
Inquiring minds want to know.
He's an adult, just like you.
He is free to make his own choices, no matter how destructive and sick, just like you.
When you fail to recognize and respect his freedom and his right to make his own choices, that's your codependency causing you to disrespect him and your relationship with him just as much as he disrespects you and that relationship in his alcoholism.
If control is so important to you, why don't you try to exercise it where you actually have it -- on yourself and your own recovery? I think you'd be amazed at how much more effective you might be....
...and I'm not talking about "effective" at getting him to do what you want either....
...but effective in getting your own life together and finding your own happiness whether he is still drinking or not and whether he is still in your life or not.
freya
...and BTW, leaving for the reason of getting him to stop is still manipulation and control -- If you want to leave honestly and healthily, then it needs to be because that is what you have to do to take care of yourself.
Wow, I guess you do want control...
...and he wants to drink.
It seems a little odd to me that you are so focused on him acting out of his disease that you appear to be completely blind to the fact that your wanting to control him and seeking justification for issuing manipulative ultimatums is a perfect example of you acting out of yours.
The irony is a little thick here.
Not for nothin', but how come you get to act out of yours and he doesn't?
Inquiring minds want to know.
He's an adult, just like you.
He is free to make his own choices, no matter how destructive and sick, just like you.
When you fail to recognize and respect his freedom and his right to make his own choices, that's your codependency causing you to disrespect him and your relationship with him just as much as he disrespects you and that relationship in his alcoholism.
If control is so important to you, why don't you try to exercise it where you actually have it -- on yourself and your own recovery? I think you'd be amazed at how much more effective you might be....
...and I'm not talking about "effective" at getting him to do what you want either....
...but effective in getting your own life together and finding your own happiness whether he is still drinking or not and whether he is still in your life or not.
freya
...and BTW, leaving for the reason of getting him to stop is still manipulation and control -- If you want to leave honestly and healthily, then it needs to be because that is what you have to do to take care of yourself.
I wonder if this is the right place for a new person here.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,439
Hi HapJoyFree
Welcome
I think it's important to remember that in nearly every case everyone who takes the time to post a response is trying to help...
sometimes that means saying things the original poster might not want to hear...and yes maybe sometimes we miss the mark - but by and large I think we get it right here.
I think you'll see that as you read around some more.
In this case, I'm glad to see the OP appreciated the responses here.
As for the original question - ultimatums never worked for me iwantcontrol.
Ultimatums actually gave me something to drink against.
D
Welcome
I think it's important to remember that in nearly every case everyone who takes the time to post a response is trying to help...
sometimes that means saying things the original poster might not want to hear...and yes maybe sometimes we miss the mark - but by and large I think we get it right here.
I think you'll see that as you read around some more.
In this case, I'm glad to see the OP appreciated the responses here.
As for the original question - ultimatums never worked for me iwantcontrol.
Ultimatums actually gave me something to drink against.
D
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston, MA (Mattapan) Legit ghetto but I love it
Posts: 174
My ex left me. Not really because of my drinking but a lot of our issues were a result of my drinking.
I love this guy. A LOT. He means the world to me. Everything to me in fact. But even with him, I drank. I promised him I'd stop. And I wanted to. So badly. I really did. He means so much to me. He makes me so happy but I couldn't quit for him. Alcohol...for an alcoholic. It has to much power of you. And it's not because I don't love him. It isn't. I can't even begin to explain to you how much I love him. But I am messed up. I've got an addiction. And no ultimatum is going to make me stop until I d elide myself that I am going to stop. I don't know if your boyfriend is capable of loving you right now. Maybe he isn't. But I can tell you from personal experience that I LOVE the guy who left me more than anything in the world despite the things he's done to me and how much he's hurt me and I'd do anything to know he loved me again. But no matter how badly I might want to, I don't know that I could quit drinking for him. Stopping drinking is a choice I have to make on my own. To benefit me.
I know what it is like when the person you love is hurting you. It sucks. I does. It sucks so freking much. But sometimes you just have to let a person work out their own issues. Sometimes the person just needs space. Sometimes love isn't enough. Life isn't a fairy tale. We can't always fix the people who love. Sometimes people need to fix themselves.
I love this guy. A LOT. He means the world to me. Everything to me in fact. But even with him, I drank. I promised him I'd stop. And I wanted to. So badly. I really did. He means so much to me. He makes me so happy but I couldn't quit for him. Alcohol...for an alcoholic. It has to much power of you. And it's not because I don't love him. It isn't. I can't even begin to explain to you how much I love him. But I am messed up. I've got an addiction. And no ultimatum is going to make me stop until I d elide myself that I am going to stop. I don't know if your boyfriend is capable of loving you right now. Maybe he isn't. But I can tell you from personal experience that I LOVE the guy who left me more than anything in the world despite the things he's done to me and how much he's hurt me and I'd do anything to know he loved me again. But no matter how badly I might want to, I don't know that I could quit drinking for him. Stopping drinking is a choice I have to make on my own. To benefit me.
I know what it is like when the person you love is hurting you. It sucks. I does. It sucks so freking much. But sometimes you just have to let a person work out their own issues. Sometimes the person just needs space. Sometimes love isn't enough. Life isn't a fairy tale. We can't always fix the people who love. Sometimes people need to fix themselves.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
What year? Which partner?
I kept drinking until I wanted to quitmore than I wanted to drink.
That happened because of situational depression
caused by active alcoholism.
About a year later I split from my still drinking lover.
He survived....I thrived.
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