Nevertheless

There are people at AA that keep it no secret that they are religious. I have gone to AA twice a week for the last 9 months. (Monday will be 9 months sober for me). I try to keep it from being a completely religious thing. I worry about "my problem" and listen to "their problems".
I have found that what is in the 4th step is helping keep me sober. I think in the 4th step is where you find out just why you drink. ( a big part of it anyway). It also helps just to be with other people that are also trying to be sober.
There was a guy at a meeting the other night (been sober 8 years)(he now only comes a couple times a year). He said his forgetter worked very well, and his rememberer was broken when it comes to drinking. And that is so true.
You usually hear something at a meeting that will help keep you sober if you listen.
I know you don't want to go to AA, but it really costs nothing. And for me staying sober by myself was next to impossible.
Like I said Monday will be 9 months for me, and my next goal will be a year.
It is so nice to have a really bad day, and not feel I have to get sloppy drunk over it, or have a good day and feel like I have to try a new kind of beer. I just go on like most other people now. I think it's because of AA
I'll quit trying to push it <G>
Fred

Meeko

Hi Darkest,

As far as detoxing I agree with the others that said to see a docter.

And for me I need to be around other alcoholics as they truly understand me. I work two programs and have not been in rehab. I now have 18 months in. You can go to a meeting and take what you want and leave the rest. Bottom line is for me there is no better treatment than talking to others that have gone through this. Yes I agree we are in charge of our lifes and responsible for our own actions. Believing in a higher power or something else greater than me running the show type thing helps me deal with everyday life which in turn keeps me sober.

Hang in there and you can do this!!!!!! The rewards sobriety will bring are endless.

Jenn

DarkestDays

From what nearly everyone has said on SR, AA meetings seem to be an incredible help. I really appreciate the "go to a meeting and take what you want and leave the rest" comment Meeko ... I'm sure even if I couldn't relate to 99% of it the remaining 1% could be a huge help. I'm going to try to make a meeting as soon as possible.

I just hope somehow the crushing anxiety/depression that I go through during every withdrawal goes away so I can actually join one.

basIam

Where did I say you, me or anyone else didn't have free will?

Of course we all have free will... reread what I said.

What I said was thank god I found a way I didn't have to depend on will power to make a decision not to drink.

I mean, does it take will power to not play russian roulette?
Does it take will power not to play in traffic?

Why should it take will power to stay sober, when drinking for me is equivalent to suicide.

Again thank god I didn't have to figure out a way to make will power work. I probably would have died before I found a way for that method to work.

Simple question... how's will power working for you?

DarkestDays

Yes, on some small level it does. Every action in life is governed by the will of the person doing it. Someone playing Russian Roulette willed themselves to do that, no matter how stupid that may be.

I seem to be in a similar situation of stupid choices.

Not well.

That said, I very much appreciate all the advice you and the rest of the members here have given me.

OtherHalf7

Darkest, may I ask if you take anything for anxiety? Alcohol is one of the hardest habits to break, as it is legal and so addictive...if you have been a "hardcore" drinker, the withdrawal can be awful...hallucinations, tremor, etc.

My ex did detox and rehab several times, (quit AA, day treatment, etc., in full-blown relapse) but there are other ways.

I highly recommend speaking to your physician...as a behaviorist, I don't buy the detox then meetings then it's all good thing, or the myth of willpower, or that we're walking meat, either.

Basically, I'd see about getting the underlying psychological and behavioral issues taken care of as well as the drinking, and focus on the days you have been sober, instead of setting yourself up for failure by beating yourself up for whatever you've done in the past.

It CAN be done...I have two sisters in recovery, one sober for 2 years and the other for 9, and it's awesome...I ask them often why they "succeeded", and basically both got to the point of death, and knew it was their time. They changed the environment, kept up with the programs, put themselves first, found the HP, and stayed close to their support system, sober family and friends. The most important thing was taking it one day at a time.

It's not going to be an easy road and all freaking roses and angels singing, but the end will be worth it.

Hang in there...hugs to you!

Pagekeeper

If you're having physical withdrawals, my suggestion is a doctor. Alcohol withdrawal can be dangerous.

There are many options for staying sober. Look around the forum for different approaches. I'm agnostic and in AA. Quite a few others who post here are as well.

basIam

I am anything but stupid.

The problem was, I was prone to self delusion.

Here is the real analogy... given enough time away from playing russian roulette, I was able to convince my self that the bullet would never come up.

So why not spin the chamber if that relieved my anxiety.

Alcoholism is a subtle insanity.

Here I am, a hyper intelligent person. Summa *** laude engineering. Anything I put my mind to, I can accomplish... drinking must be the same, huh???

Yeah, it worked.... for a while..... then out of the blue... the idea would come to mind.... after a good period o sobriety... "you made to much of this thing.... you can have a drink"

So I take a drink.... nothing bad happens at first... but eventually boom... the loaded chamber comes up.

Will power implies sound reasoning.
My reasoning was any thing but sound when it came to alcohol.

DarkestDays

I am not currently taking anything. I've tried anti-depressants multiple times with bad results ... basically I just drank more.

Anxiety is a huge problem for me and I'll definitely bring it up with my physician.

Thanks for the reply. I know I'll remember one phrase that finally made me laugh while I deal with recovery ...

"It's not going to be an easy road and all freaking roses and angels singing"

OtherHalf7

Glad it made you smile! Thinking of you tonight, and know that you CAN do it

Sikkisirus

Welcome to SR - in time you will find what works for you. I know a few in recovery and each uses a different method to stay sober

honeyTrappe

I was just having this conversation with someone last night ... they said they had been along to AA and it was all very "christian/religious" and it had put them off. But AA is specifically non-denominational and for a very good reason. ie: so that anyone/everyone who desires it can get sober!!

One of the most attractive things I've found is the refreshingly open-ended spirituality of it ... I love the freedom I now have to explore my own concepts and beliefs about God and the universe, and to change and develop them as I change and develop as a person.

Also your comments about willpower, or lack thereof ... alcoholism is a disease and nothing to do with weak willpower. The russian roulette/playing in traffic analogy doesn't really wash because YES we do stupid things, we are compelled to do them, and are, in fact, unable to stop ourselves from doing them, or simply just don't care what happens to us anymore. It is a very frightening experience as it picks up speed and intensity.

But understanding it as a disease - can a diabetic or someone with cancer "will" themselves well again? No. They need treatment. They need outside intervention ... powers greater than themselves, if you will. I am very grateful that I can keep my disease in remission simply by not picking up the first drink. Regular meetings and practicing the 12 steps (badly as I do at that!) treat my disease of alcoholism and keep my head in a good space so that I can continue to "not pick up that first drink" on a daily basis.


It's a shame your xmas this year was a bit stink ... I hope you find that inner guidance within you and they start to get better and better from this point on :-)

~honey~

DarkestDays

Thanks for the excellent advice. I have finally reached that terrifying (enlightening?) point of "speed and intensity".

Thinking only of myself is one of the reasons I think I landed in this situation. As I mentioned prior, I'm an agnostic, and have been struggling with "why am I here?" and "what is this all about?". I'll probably never be able to determine why I am here, at this laptop, and typing this right now ... but clearly it's not about me. I'm hoping to get to the place where it's about what I've done to help others in some way.

I'm only one person but I am sure I can assist many others given the ability to get through this mess.

AADavid

I am in AA. I was drinking steadily for several years. I could easily drink for one year straight without taking a night off of the boos.

I was still drinking when I started AA. The folks in AA helped me quit drinking one day at a time. I am now slowly marching towards nine months sober. It is a great feeling!

Since withdrawals can be really nasty, including life threatening. I would recommend talking to your doctor before you try going cold turkey.

Having said that, try AA. For many years I balked at giving AA a chance. AA is free! AA is already in your neighborhood. AA works for millions of people. You don't have to believe in God either. Or, you can use God (higher power) as much as you like.

Try AA. It is so close and so easy to just try!

AADavid

This was my first holiday season in about five years! It is a great feeling isn't it?

CarolD

AADavid....
Welcome to SR and to our Alcoholism Forum

barb dwyer

Darkest-

I had customers come in while reading your thread,
but I don't think anyone has mentioned that
an addiction to alcohol is not like any other addiction
in that
it is the only substance
that sudden withdrawal
can bvwe fatal.

That, hon....
is not a 'mental' addiction.
It's full-bore physical.

I did not get a doctor when I got sober.
I did the whole thing ... cold turkey
and alone.

ANsd I'm payinmg, three years later
for that decision.
I had convulsions
fainting,
trouble breathing ....

please seek a doctor's supervision.
I can't stress that enough.

At a certain point of alcoholism
there's no 'will' involved at all.
It's a physical addiction
that needs attending to.

Will... will power... free will...
none of that stuff even ENTERS THE PLAYING FIELD
until the physical addiction ...
has been abated.
The psychological or any other mumbo-jumbo definition
is not even a player as yet.

If you understand that you guys seem to be talking about
two completely different animals
I think you'll find the common ground.

I hope you're seeking supervision.

barb dwyer

sorry -

now that I posted that
i see the both
coffeenut
and goat made mention of it.

Sudz No More

I am living proof that there is more than one animal called alcoholism. I am more of the functional alcoholic type, for most of the last ten years I balanced it into my diet and rarely drank enough to be intoxicated. It wasn't until the last year or so that I noticed I had started to go beyond the threshold for what BAC my body could handle.

Many would likely have called me an "Alcohol Abuser" that developed into a full blown Alcoholic by virtue of building up such a large tolerance to Alcohol that it took going past my body's physical ability to function to finally bring me down.

That said, I backed off the Alcohol consumption for two weeks by tapering off and then stopped completely. I only had minor withdrawal symptoms, a little chest pain, some anxiety and the persistent cravings which subside more and more each day.

This is not to say do it alone! I did consult a doctor who gave me xanax and my Wife watched me closely as I began my first days without.

I'm just saying that it does depend on the level and type of Alcoholic you are to determine whether or not you will Detox dangerously or not.

basIam

I believe that it is important to note that physical dependence on alcohol is not alcoholism.

Not all persons are alcoholic, yet, any person who consumes enough alcohol over a long enough period of time will develop a dependence.

I never drank a lot, I never developed a dependence.

What makes me an alcoholic? When I sincerely wanted to stop, I found that I couldn't.

The russian roulette/playing in traffic analogy does fit. Its not about stupidity or lack of knowledge, its about delusion, inability to discern the true from the false.

Again, after a period of time sober, my mind is able to convince me that I can drink without consequences, that I can control it, "I am impervious to bullets/high speed cars"

That is alcoholism.

Now you may not identify with that. You may be a different class of drinker. If that is the case, you may be able to stay sober on will power, once you dry out.

On the other hand, if you identify with the thought process I describe, you will probably find that will power is less than 100% effective.

Thank God I found a way to stay sober that did not depend on my will power to not drink.