Alcoholism Is Not A Disease
Absolute Evil
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by rockworm 
I am well aware of statistics. Your opinion is that it is not a disease: my opinion is that it is. At this point in time, at least the studies are leaning more toward the illness/disease concept. Until proven otherwise, I will defer to the medical and scientific community. My thinking may still be delusional, but at least my sobriety is intact.
I do not and will never accept the label of disease for this situation.
Absolute Evil
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by Ribeye
Overeating (abusing food) can lead to diabetes.
Abusing alcoholc (over drinking) can lead to alcoholism.
I have no idea of the point behind the distinction you are making.
Once you have alcoholism, be it a disease or merely a 'condition', you are responsible to treat it or live with the consequences.
Abusing alcoholc (over drinking) can lead to alcoholism.
I have no idea of the point behind the distinction you are making.
Once you have alcoholism, be it a disease or merely a 'condition', you are responsible to treat it or live with the consequences.
Absolute Evil
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by Untoxicated
Please do, at the very least it was very touching and motivational and I think you'll enjoy it. At the very best get rid of your diabetes! 
I worked for Big Pharma for nearly a decade and have a lot to say (mostly negative) about pharmaceuticals and their necessity but I don't want to overstep the limits of the site. I started out selling a diabetic medication which involved learning the disease state (a brainwashing term in the medical community if you ask me) of diabetes for three months.
I'm actually excited for you to watch the film, I hope it helps!
I worked for Big Pharma for nearly a decade and have a lot to say (mostly negative) about pharmaceuticals and their necessity but I don't want to overstep the limits of the site. I started out selling a diabetic medication which involved learning the disease state (a brainwashing term in the medical community if you ask me) of diabetes for three months.
I'm actually excited for you to watch the film, I hope it helps!
Someone did tell me that it could clear up if weight was lost. I guess I'll see...
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 112
Actually type II diabetes has alot to do with lifestyle, just like alcoholism does. But not everyone who over eats gets diabetes just like everyone who over drinks doesn't become alcoholic.
If you have the ability to just not drink, you probably don't have the condition known as alcoholism.
And alcoholism can not be cured. It can be arrested by not drinking. If an alcoholic drinks after a period of time he will exhibit the same symptoms he did earlier.
Just like loosing weight and starting an exercise program might bring your sugar levels down. If you stop the exercise and go back to eating the same your sugar levels will jump back up.
Alcoholism has alot in common with things like diabetes which is why some people classify it as a disease. If it is a disease in the true sense or not isn't important. Either way it's a recognized medical condition. You can refuse to see it that way if you like but, again, what's the point in that ?
If you have the ability to just not drink, you probably don't have the condition known as alcoholism.
And alcoholism can not be cured. It can be arrested by not drinking. If an alcoholic drinks after a period of time he will exhibit the same symptoms he did earlier.
Just like loosing weight and starting an exercise program might bring your sugar levels down. If you stop the exercise and go back to eating the same your sugar levels will jump back up.
Alcoholism has alot in common with things like diabetes which is why some people classify it as a disease. If it is a disease in the true sense or not isn't important. Either way it's a recognized medical condition. You can refuse to see it that way if you like but, again, what's the point in that ?
Originally Posted by TheMaster
Sorry, I tried to simplify it as much as possible. Diabetes is a disease that cannot be cured. Alcoholism is a choice. All you need to do is not drink and there is no problem.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 32
There are plenty of diseases you can get by your own fault you can get an STD by not using a condom. That's your fault. You can get lung cancer from smoking. Is lung cancer not a disease because you choose to pick up a ciggerette
Absolute Evil
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by Cornbrosia
There are plenty of diseases you can get by your own fault you can get an STD by not using a condom. That's your fault. You can get lung cancer from smoking. Is lung cancer not a disease because you choose to pick up a ciggerette
Lung cancer is a disease. Addiction to smoking cigarettes is not, but it CAN LEAD TO a disease.
Cirrhosis of the liver is a disease. The addiction to drinking that caused it is not.
I really don't understand why you people don't get the difference. It's plain & simple.
Both of the above diseases came from a choice made by the person that has it (except nonsmokers that get lung cancer anyway).
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 117
Wow, startling title, "Alcoholism is not a disease" so this thread grabbed my eye...
The way it's been explained to me through meetings and literature (AA Comes of Age, A New Pair of Glasses - Chuck C), is that back when AA was taking shape, Doctor Bob defined the experience of alcoholism as an allergic reaction to a toxic chemical like alcohol for which progressive exposure to such creates the eventual disease of alcoholism for those who are susceptible because of an innate allergy or genetic predisposition.
To destigmatize this propensity for voluntary self-inflicted injury and help medical professionals better understand that alcoholism is not a matter of habit but a triggered reaction caused by exposure to an allergic substance, the word "disease" was added to the definition of alcoholism, supported by the study of side effects resulting in withdrawal (DTs) and brain chemical alteration compounding into possible, permanent neurological disorder.
Apart from the criteria for meeting a medical disability, the word "disease" itself means "a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment." (Webster's Dictionary)
The Oxford English Dictionary sources the word "Disease" to come from a compound term of two words-- DIS and EASE. With DIS being the prefix, and that root coming from the mythological land of DIS which is akin to "the underworld" or "Hades" or "H ell" when combined with "ease" it essentially means "conflict with ease" or "conflict with peace."
The American Surgeon General validates the experience of alcoholism as a disease for infants born with Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders (FASD) which also may cause learning disabilities and alcohol-related birth defects (HHS - Office of the Surgeon General, U.S. Surgeon General Releases Advisory on Alcohol Use in Pregnancy Urges women who are pregnant or who may become pregnant to abstain from alcohol )
Given that many adult alcoholics today may have been born into alcoholic families, there are genetic links... As a genealogist, I've extensively researched family lines and have noted in many various records a direct association to alcoholic behavior and alcohol related death (cirrhosis of the liver, fatal mental disorder like schizophrenia).
The Mayo Clinic states that Alcoholism is "a chronic disease that makes your body dependent on alcohol." (source: Alcoholism - MayoClinic.com ) And that Alcoholism is a "treatable disease. Medications, counseling and self-help groups are among the therapies that can provide ongoing support to help you recover from alcoholism."
Should your insurance or disability claim reject the definition of Alcoholism being a malady that is not a disease, perhaps attach the definitions from the Surgeon General and Mayo Clinic to your application form.
Best to you,
Weeza
The way it's been explained to me through meetings and literature (AA Comes of Age, A New Pair of Glasses - Chuck C), is that back when AA was taking shape, Doctor Bob defined the experience of alcoholism as an allergic reaction to a toxic chemical like alcohol for which progressive exposure to such creates the eventual disease of alcoholism for those who are susceptible because of an innate allergy or genetic predisposition.
To destigmatize this propensity for voluntary self-inflicted injury and help medical professionals better understand that alcoholism is not a matter of habit but a triggered reaction caused by exposure to an allergic substance, the word "disease" was added to the definition of alcoholism, supported by the study of side effects resulting in withdrawal (DTs) and brain chemical alteration compounding into possible, permanent neurological disorder.
Apart from the criteria for meeting a medical disability, the word "disease" itself means "a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment." (Webster's Dictionary)
The Oxford English Dictionary sources the word "Disease" to come from a compound term of two words-- DIS and EASE. With DIS being the prefix, and that root coming from the mythological land of DIS which is akin to "the underworld" or "Hades" or "H ell" when combined with "ease" it essentially means "conflict with ease" or "conflict with peace."
The American Surgeon General validates the experience of alcoholism as a disease for infants born with Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders (FASD) which also may cause learning disabilities and alcohol-related birth defects (HHS - Office of the Surgeon General, U.S. Surgeon General Releases Advisory on Alcohol Use in Pregnancy Urges women who are pregnant or who may become pregnant to abstain from alcohol )
Given that many adult alcoholics today may have been born into alcoholic families, there are genetic links... As a genealogist, I've extensively researched family lines and have noted in many various records a direct association to alcoholic behavior and alcohol related death (cirrhosis of the liver, fatal mental disorder like schizophrenia).
The Mayo Clinic states that Alcoholism is "a chronic disease that makes your body dependent on alcohol." (source: Alcoholism - MayoClinic.com ) And that Alcoholism is a "treatable disease. Medications, counseling and self-help groups are among the therapies that can provide ongoing support to help you recover from alcoholism."
Should your insurance or disability claim reject the definition of Alcoholism being a malady that is not a disease, perhaps attach the definitions from the Surgeon General and Mayo Clinic to your application form.
Best to you,
Weeza
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Meanings of certain words change by usage in society. Words are a living thing. Words mean different things to different people. If I do not use the word "disease" to describe my alcoholism, I am not at all upset if you use it to describe yours, or mine even.
Comparing Alcoholism to Diabetes to Pregnancy to Schizophrenia is bound to bring up the different biases we all have... and that's all fine. But when a physician treats a patient, or when an insurance company pays a claim or a disability suit is decided... each group of people have their own, very tangible reasons for calling it what they will... Society has a large part to play in it.
Tib is rightly or wrongly experiencing society's bias when it comes to disability. Society is not to interested in paying somebody not to work if he can't simply because he's a drunkard. But if that person is a drunkard with a disease that makes it so he cannot work, society apparently wouldn't withhold disability simply because he happened to be a drunk. Society is willing, to a limited extent, and happily so, to pay for treatment... so then it becomes a disease, but he's still the same drunk.
Tib, do you have a disease?
Mark
Comparing Alcoholism to Diabetes to Pregnancy to Schizophrenia is bound to bring up the different biases we all have... and that's all fine. But when a physician treats a patient, or when an insurance company pays a claim or a disability suit is decided... each group of people have their own, very tangible reasons for calling it what they will... Society has a large part to play in it.
Tib is rightly or wrongly experiencing society's bias when it comes to disability. Society is not to interested in paying somebody not to work if he can't simply because he's a drunkard. But if that person is a drunkard with a disease that makes it so he cannot work, society apparently wouldn't withhold disability simply because he happened to be a drunk. Society is willing, to a limited extent, and happily so, to pay for treatment... so then it becomes a disease, but he's still the same drunk.
Tib, do you have a disease?
Mark
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
I love threads like this because it shows me how far i have come, i used to get a bit annoyed when people didn't share my point of view...i can also now sit with dedicated relapsers whilst they share with me how to get sober, for their usual few months before the next imminent relapse, on a regime of eating well and/or exercising and/or watching only 1 hour of television a day whilst pointing out that yoga is essential for recovery...they actually believe what they say though...such a gift to see the insanity now and not to be caught up in it:-)
Hope debating whether alcoholism is a disease gets someone sober...i don't gamble anymore but i've never been so pissed as to take those odds hehe
Hope debating whether alcoholism is a disease gets someone sober...i don't gamble anymore but i've never been so pissed as to take those odds hehe
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Hi Everyone.....
Some post have been removed that were in violation of our guidelines.
Others were removed that quoted them.
Lot's of opinions and facts have been discussed.
Let's get busy finding a way to quit drinking.
..
This topic is closed.
Some post have been removed that were in violation of our guidelines.
Others were removed that quoted them.
Lot's of opinions and facts have been discussed.
Let's get busy finding a way to quit drinking.
..
This topic is closed.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
