How do I get out of this mess? LONG
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
It all boils down to a difference of reality. You believe in a theory of "powerlessness". This lends itself well to talk of spirituality and Gods grace. I, as you know, do not believe in this ideology which makes the responsibility to get and remain sober mine. So what should I say...you offer a wish granting deity limited by ones imagination....I offer self reliance and free will. It is, after all, the thing that truly makes us human.
A friend of mine used to ask people if they were full...it had a profound affect on me...while we differed in ideology this very simple question defines the success of anyone regardless of program.
A friend of mine used to ask people if they were full...it had a profound affect on me...while we differed in ideology this very simple question defines the success of anyone regardless of program.
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lincoln
Posts: 201
Originally Posted by bugsworth 
A friend of mine used to ask people if they were full...it had a profound affect on me...while we differed in ideology this very simple question defines the success of anyone regardless of program.
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Mark....they are not my words...that is what the bb says.
You say "religion" like it is a dirty word yet that is what you advocate. You can call it "spirituality" if you want to but if you put lipstick on a pig it is still a pig.
God doesn't scare me either. Neither my religion nor my faith has anything to do with my sobriety other than the gratitude that I have a second opportunity at life.
You say "religion" like it is a dirty word yet that is what you advocate. You can call it "spirituality" if you want to but if you put lipstick on a pig it is still a pig.
God doesn't scare me either. Neither my religion nor my faith has anything to do with my sobriety other than the gratitude that I have a second opportunity at life.
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Kurt..there was a group of guys who were like you explained...long time sober members that utilized the fellowship only. They use to hit up the larger meetings in my area...I saw them often and they offered solid sound advise. I was always blown away by how many members avoided them or shared right after them things like..."If I could just think a drink to the end I wouldn't be here."
I do think that you are right...there are many people who don't admit to not working the steps for fear of not being accepted.
I do think that you are right...there are many people who don't admit to not working the steps for fear of not being accepted.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
It has nothing to do with your sobriety, Bugs, nothing at all.... Your belief in God doesn't have to have anything to do with anything in your life... in your happiness, in your sadness, in your health, in your relationships... It doesn't have to have anything to do with anything... And it's a beautiful thing, spirituality, isn't it? It doesn't have to be anything you don't want to be.
Mark
Mark
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by bugsworth
Mark, what do my beliefs in God have to do with sobriety?
Mark
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Not at all Bugs..
You don't do the God thing with the sobriety thing.... I get and respect that. You use self reliance and free will. I get that too... In the church I use, church dogma, if you will, "Free Will" is God given.
Maybe there is not as much difference between us as you might assume?
Mark
You don't do the God thing with the sobriety thing.... I get and respect that. You use self reliance and free will. I get that too... In the church I use, church dogma, if you will, "Free Will" is God given.
Maybe there is not as much difference between us as you might assume?
Mark
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
While we don't know a lot about each other Mark we are both passionate about helping people find a way out of the insanity of addictive addiction. Your free and so am I...we took two totally different paths in different directions yet wound up at the same place...not only is this something to rejoice in it is our responsibility to embrace the differences and share them honestly with those still suffering.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: far left of center
Posts: 237
You are abolutely right that we shouldn't tell the new comer they should do this or that...
The only thing we should tell them is what we have done ourselves and the result (be it good or bad)
Unfortunately, a lot of newcomers hear things they want to hear them. When we say, "you might want to do xyz, it worked for me." They hear, "you better do this, or else you'll drink again"
Now, don't get me wrong, there are some a-holes who say the latter... my advice, ignore them.
On the other hand when some one says they can't do aa, it is important to point out the that its a matter of willingness and not ability. "If you are capable of tying your shoes, you are a 'will not' and not a 'cannot'
Furthermore, when someone says it didn't work, typically they didn't work it due to some prejudice. Or they skimped on one aspect. Yes some will say, "I did the steps, and I didn't recover!" But when I ask them specifics about the actions they took, something was missed.
But here's the point.... I could give a rats a$$ whether someone comes to AA or not...
What gets me ticked is when someone says "AA didn't work for me" or "I can't do AA" when the truth is THEY DIDN'T WORK IT and THEY WON'T WORK IT. And they spout this self deception with NO CONSIDERATION on how it may affect someone else considering AA. Their sole intent it seems is to justify the lies they tell themselves with out any thought towards others.
It is pure selfishness.
And before you fire off a response saying I am baiting or flaming, I urge you to please take a moment and contemplate what I am really saying.
The only thing we should tell them is what we have done ourselves and the result (be it good or bad)
Unfortunately, a lot of newcomers hear things they want to hear them. When we say, "you might want to do xyz, it worked for me." They hear, "you better do this, or else you'll drink again"
Now, don't get me wrong, there are some a-holes who say the latter... my advice, ignore them.
On the other hand when some one says they can't do aa, it is important to point out the that its a matter of willingness and not ability. "If you are capable of tying your shoes, you are a 'will not' and not a 'cannot'
Furthermore, when someone says it didn't work, typically they didn't work it due to some prejudice. Or they skimped on one aspect. Yes some will say, "I did the steps, and I didn't recover!" But when I ask them specifics about the actions they took, something was missed.
But here's the point.... I could give a rats a$$ whether someone comes to AA or not...
What gets me ticked is when someone says "AA didn't work for me" or "I can't do AA" when the truth is THEY DIDN'T WORK IT and THEY WON'T WORK IT. And they spout this self deception with NO CONSIDERATION on how it may affect someone else considering AA. Their sole intent it seems is to justify the lies they tell themselves with out any thought towards others.
It is pure selfishness.
And before you fire off a response saying I am baiting or flaming, I urge you to please take a moment and contemplate what I am really saying.
Originally Posted by tyler
100% agree with you on that Keith. I was only responding to the folks who were saying that she was not welcome if she didn't want to "work the program".
I'm a perfect example. I've been to hundered of AA and NA meetings. But I only "went" to them. Didn't work the steps, didn't get a sponsor, didn't "work the program" in general. It didn't work for me, who's fault is that? Certainly not AA or NA's!!
The cool thing is that even though I did not choose to prusue the 12-step route, I did gain knowledge and support from those meetings. I tried not to be disrespectful of anyone at the meetings I attended and found most people to be very accepting of me, in spite of my stuborness of not working the program.
I think it's important not to "scare off" newcommers with demands that they do this and that before they even set foot into a meeting. Everyone is entitled to change their mind. I'm sure there are hundereds here at SR who went to a meeting, totally not intending to "buy into the program", but ended up finding their sobriety there anyway. It's true it's not a program for everyone, but I think sometimes people here come off so strong that it discourages newcommers, as well as the many more who read here and don't post, to even give it a try. Just my opinion.
I'm a perfect example. I've been to hundered of AA and NA meetings. But I only "went" to them. Didn't work the steps, didn't get a sponsor, didn't "work the program" in general. It didn't work for me, who's fault is that? Certainly not AA or NA's!!
The cool thing is that even though I did not choose to prusue the 12-step route, I did gain knowledge and support from those meetings. I tried not to be disrespectful of anyone at the meetings I attended and found most people to be very accepting of me, in spite of my stuborness of not working the program.
I think it's important not to "scare off" newcommers with demands that they do this and that before they even set foot into a meeting. Everyone is entitled to change their mind. I'm sure there are hundereds here at SR who went to a meeting, totally not intending to "buy into the program", but ended up finding their sobriety there anyway. It's true it's not a program for everyone, but I think sometimes people here come off so strong that it discourages newcommers, as well as the many more who read here and don't post, to even give it a try. Just my opinion.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by bugsworth
but if you put lipstick on a pig it is still a pig.
This work that we do to recover. This journey, whether it be spiritual, religious or cognitive... It's a wonderful and meaningful journey. Each and everyone of us who have found recovery owe it to those coming after us, honesty... the road is bumpy and at times counterintuitive, even paradoxical... But it's still a wonderful journey, and it never ends... isn't that great? If you want it, you can have it... Where's the paradox?
I have a great college radio station nearby, they just played some Government Mule... Warren Haynes wrote... (something to the effect...)
To become one with our greatest weakness is our greatest strength.
I thought that was cool, perhaps even paradoxical.
Mark
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 20
The really funny thing to me is that everytime someone comes on here and posts something to the effect of "Please help! I can't stop drinking! I don't want to do AA, it doesn't work for me....No, I've never worked the steps...But it doesn't work!" they are basically proving all the AA'ers right. And of course all of us AAers latch on to this and love to argue with them, because they make it so easy for us to prove our point, and we love to be right.(Ego, anyone?)
I'm not saying AA is the only path. But when you come here and say that it doesn't work, even though you've never tried it, and you really want to stop but you can't, you're just affirming all the people you disagree with. Keep it up though, I just started some new popcorn.
I'm not saying AA is the only path. But when you come here and say that it doesn't work, even though you've never tried it, and you really want to stop but you can't, you're just affirming all the people you disagree with. Keep it up though, I just started some new popcorn.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,064
Recovered one posted in Alcoholism not the 12 step AA forum. This person said AA wasn't an option so why are some of you people forcing the AA way? I can see if she posted in the other forum but let's say she posted that she tried hypnosis and having her chakras aligned and said that did not work. Would the crowd then bash her because she did not have success?
And then call her selfish. I see she has not been back to this forum and I personally probably would not come back here either if I told everyone that solution 994 or solution A was not viable. I see lots of intolerance again and it seems to be more with AA than with any other group of program. And that is interesting.
And then call her selfish. I see she has not been back to this forum and I personally probably would not come back here either if I told everyone that solution 994 or solution A was not viable. I see lots of intolerance again and it seems to be more with AA than with any other group of program. And that is interesting.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 58
I believe recovered said she is considering returning to AA, but was not interested in the 12 Step program. Discussions followed on this premise. She also said she was considering SMART. She does attend Women in Sobriety, but the meeting and fellow members are not close by, so it is difficult for her.
I do not know that any one is forcing AA on her, but a lot of the discussion centres around the underlying principles of AA, the taking of the 12 steps.
I do not know that any one is forcing AA on her, but a lot of the discussion centres around the underlying principles of AA, the taking of the 12 steps.
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