veryregretful

I'm going through a seperation from my AH for over 2 weeks now and he was/is a bad verbal abuser while drinking. He was sober but no help from Jan to Aug. My kids who are 14 don't want him home until he is sober. On Saturday night I kept getting phone calls from him and I took them which I know I shouldn't have and he was accusing me of sleeping with his brother and why am I F-in with his heart, etc.

My question to you is: How many of you guys have lost your families to the drink? Have you tried to get back once sober and getting help? And how many have gotten back with their significant other?

I know these questions really don't have much to do with my situation right now but I was just curious on the answers.

I would love my husband to come back hope if he were to get help and sober and I, myself, am seeing a therapist. When he was sober for those 8 months i didn't trust him so I didn't know how to react to him not drinking. Also, he wasn't going forward with help so he really didn't own up to anything he had done to his family.

There are so many questions I have. Maybe going to an AA meeting myself would help me out in answering some of my questions.

My children are most important and if they didn't speak up then he would still be home verbally abusing all of us.

It's very sad that alcohol takes over ones life so much. My dad was an alcholic who passed away at the age of 47. In my mind, he is at peace and not in pain anymore. He was diabetic plus had many operations during his life due to his drinking. My Mom's sister (we didn't know she drank this much) but we found her in Long Island and she has wet brain. She doesn't even know me. Her neice. We cleaned out her apartment and she had all her wine bottles lined up around the perimeter of the apartment. She must have had an obsession of buying certain item because she would have dozens of eggs on the kitchen floor, rotten things everywhere. Too much to write here. It brings tears to my eyes that alcohol can do these things and take over your life.

I know deep down inside all of you active drinkers are great people but the alcohol just takes over. I am the family member of many alcohlics and see how it affects people differently.

My dad was verbally and physically abusive. sick. diabetic. I would have to give him his insulin shots when I got home from school cuz he didn't take his insulin and drank. He was always trashed and his drink was vodka. I'd find bottles of vodka hidden in the stupidest places. Under the cushion of the chair, etc. I think his pain was he found his dad when he comitted suicide and I don't think he ever got over that. Now he's dead because of booze.

My aunt - She was in concentration camps during WWII before they came to the USA - Never knew she had a drinking problem. At gatherings she would only have a glass or two of wine then I guess when she got home she would drink tons of wine. So sad. She was a funny lady, now she is just a shell of a person taking up space.

My sister is an Alki - She drinks but I do have to say she is responsible. She never drinks and drives. She's not the abusive type but I still don't think that it's good for her kids to see her trashed.

My other sis married an Alki - He drank am to pm. His favorite was the Jim Beam. He was a funny drunk. Not abusive. He lied. She divorced him. He is still actively drinking. She married again to another alki, they weren't married to long so can't say much about him. Now she is engaged to a recovering alki who has been sober for about 20 years. He is a nice guy but he still has alki thoughts and doesn't like crowds or to be around anyone drinking. He is good to her. Her daughter who is 27 is married to an alki and she is in denial about it. Her 19 year old son I think is on his way to being an alcoholic. He's not just out to party like typical teenagers. He always seems to be drunk and he is a very smart kid. He quit school one month before graduation. Don't know why. He has a menial job. Her other son had a four year scholarship and he blew it by getting caught with pot 2 times. Then he got involvied with opiates so he's back home living with his mom working at a gas station and he's 22.

My brother is also married to an alki. We don't see them much but I think pretty much she is a happy drunk. Not viscious. They are still together after over 25 years.

This is just my immediate family and I see the cycle that is going on and I don't want my children to end up in this viscious cycle. If alcohol is genetic then there is an awful good chance they will become alcholics or be in a relationship with one. My son already has smoke pot (I know we all experimented) but when he told he did it because it made him feel good and made him not think about his dad then I think he is reaching for help. So I took the steps to try to help my children.

I know I'm going way off track but my main point of this post was how many families are still intact? And one more question I just thought of - If you did not go back to your family whose choice was it? yours or your SO?

I hope I didn't bore you with this post but after I typed it I decided to go ahead and post it and see what thoughts you may have on what I wrote. I'm not trying to pick your brains about whether to bring my AH back or not. He's not coming back unless sober and getting help and the kids will have a say in it. I know at this point it's best for him not to be home. I want to give my kids the best chance out there.

I do feel like a bad guy though having him not live at the house but there is only so much verbal abuse we could take. That's not healthy. I feel sad for him. He is in pain and won't look for treatment. Whether it be depression or bipolar or whatever. I have a heart and would help anyone out but I just can't do it at all anymore.

I want to break the cycle with my children.

I know alot of this is way off track but i'd be interested in your thoughts coming from the alcholic point of view. I hope I'm not offending anyone here by anything I have written. I think it may help my understand more and not feel like I do if I have thoughts from both recovering and active alcholics.

thank you and you guys all hang in there!!!!!! If your here, then your looking for help which is a great thing. And good luck to you who are starting to quit drinking and my thoughts and prayers are with you.

P.S. In case this matters, I'm not a young kid. I'm 44 and at this moment, I feel 100. lololol

yeahgr8

Hi there, great post thanks:-)

I just wanted to highlight this in your post because this is simply untrue, all active alcoholics are selfish people, if any alcoholic disagrees with this then they are still active! Only through a program of recovery can an alcoholic change the fundamental emotions, feelings, principles he/she has lived by whilst drinking.

This is why when we have coffee after AA meetings and someone remarks that x is a nice guy i always say yeah he is a nice guy...NOW!

I like this one...What do you call an alcoholic horse thief who has stopped drinking? A horse thief.

So there is a load of work for him to do for and on himself, but not by himself...AA, SMART...whatever!

There is a family and friends section on SR that you may want to check out too:-)

I come from a long line of alchies and gamblers, i only found out recently lol...i've seen some pretty amazing stuff too, it does suck ass!

laters!

veryregretful

hmmmmm i guess your right there about being selfish. I do look back and it was all about him. and what he needed, not careing about what the rest of the family was doing or even participating with family activities. As I look back now I remember him taking the babies for walks but that was probably selfish cuz the kids were probably cranky and he figured the walk would chill them out. As he stayed home and took care of the kids till they were 6. I had the steady job and insurance. He would never be there emotionally when I needed someone to talk to or something was bothering me. He would blow if off and call me a b word. But on the other hand if he was having a bad day he wanted me to kiss his feet.

Thanks for the reply and that gave me something to think about. I think the responses will help me because some of my thinking may be misquided.

Thank you again.

Mark75

My famiily thank God is still intact. It took an intervention to get me to rehab and into recovery. I'm pretty sure I would have kept drinking and taking pills until I ruined it all, maybe not, but some things you just kinda know.

I have 4 kids. Thankfully I had not gone too far into the insanity before recovering and our relationships are still good, although I am sure at some level it had an impact, perhaps mostly as my serving as a bad example for several years.

I gotta tell you that for me to be the husband and father I want to be, I have to work a program of recovery. Otherwise I'd be without direction. I am 13.5 months sober.

Mark

veryregretful

Great job Mark.

My AH is supposed to be talking my son to dinner tonight. My son doesn't want to go. I really don't think that my AH will call and take him as he was calling me all night Saturday accusing me of sleeping with his brother and why am I messing with his heart, etc. Oh yeah, and hating me.

I don't blame my son for not wanting to go with him to dinner. He has said a lot of hurtful things to my kids while he was drunk. I'm not sure that my son will be able to forgive him right now. Maybe eventually but not now. He is very angry at his dad and he has every right to be. He saw and heard what was going on and he even was the brunt of his abuse when I refused to give him the satisfaction of me getting upset. He just went to his next target. It's all sooo sad.

Thank you for your reply. I'm glad you didn't lose your relationships at home. I'm just hoping he sees the light but I'm not keeping my fingers crossed. I can't help him. He has to do it for himself.

Right now he refuses any kind of treatment. AA, therapist or rehab. He definately needs something.

I'm living pretty much like a did before without a husband. He was always down in the basement. Had all the comforts like a little apartment. Sofa to sleep, TV, heater to stay warm and nothing to interrupt his drinking. Even when he was sober he was down the basement. He didn't get help during that time so he was a dry drunk and of course blames me that i was always up his butt. That has to be the denial in him.

The only thing I wonder now is when my friend decides he can't live there anymore where does he think he is coming. home? probably, but not without being sober and actively getting help.

Sorry I'm rambling again.

Take care

TheSunAlsoRises

Hey you might want to check out alanon Welcome to Al-Anon and Alateen if you haven't... sorry to hear about your AH... they gotta want it

LBW

VeryRegretful,

I have some advice for your kids. I have some experience with an alcohlic father as well.

My Dad was a drunk who got sober during my childhood for 13 years. I was raised by the most wonderful motivated recovering alcoholic between the ages of 6 and 18... Then he lost his business and started drinking again - 12 years ago. He is a happy drunk... but you can't have a conversation with him because he makes no sense or he monopolizes the conversation. We just pretty much ignore him. It's very sad. It's like I lost my Dad. He's stopped recently because of a DUI but he is still in denial about alcohol affecting his life in a negative way. He says the 13 years sober were wasted, boring years. He says drinking is the only fun thing he has in life... his life sucks and that's all he has. My mom is still married to him - 35 years! I've told her to leave him but she doesn't. She says he has a good heart and he's in pain. They don't fight... But she lives her life and he lives his... it's pretty much like they are roommates.

My sister and I are both recovering alcoholics. I married a wonderful responsible man who doesn't have a problem with alcohol. My sister is engaged to a non-alcoholic.

I would say the best advice I have is to take your kids to Al-Anon meetings. That would be the best therapy you can give them.

Prepare them for the very likely outcome that their father will never recover from alcoholism. They have to accept this and let go of the anger or else it will continue to affect their lives. Indifference is the best approach.

Your husband is just going to drink and bad mouth you. You should prepare your children for that and how to handle it. Tell them the best thing is to not engage an alcoholic in conversation about something the alcoholic is emotional about, that just feeds their emotions even more. It's not unloyal to not defend their mother to the alcoholic. Nothing your children say can change the alcoholic's mind. Tell them to just try to change the subject. If that doesn't work, just let the alcoholic talk and don't respond.

You shouldn't try to express your emotions to an alcoholic while they are drinking... they won't remember what you said and they won't have any ability to empathize. Talking about your emotions when they are sober is not much better... even when they are not drunk, they still have a selfish alcoholic mindset.

The best way to deal with your emotions toward an alcoholic father are to write a letter... maybe, maybe not give it to him. Maybe the kids could talk about it at Al-Anon or post their letters on the SR Friends and Family site. They have to get out their feelings, but it's not always useful to do so to the alcoholic. Unfortunately, your children are going to have to learn the art of this if they are to continue to have contact with their father.

Most important, they need to know they are not responsible for saving him. He can only save himself. If he is not ready to save himself (which it certainly sounds like), it won't happen. It has nothing to do with how much he loves them!!! He is SICK. He may never ever get well. He may die of it. It is a mistake to think "if he loves me, he would quit this and be a good father to me..." That kind of thinking will only waste your life with resentment.

They also need to know how to recognize their own alcoholism when/if it presents itself --which they will learn all about in Al-Anon. You should tell them about all these family members who distroyed their lives... especially the cousins who are closer in age and therefore easier for them to relate to. If your children have a problem, this information will help them from having denial. Their father's life (and the rest of the family's lives) can be an example to them.

They must know that just because their father or their genetics is alcoholic... it doesn't mean they have to be. They don't have to go down that road. Sure, they may have to take more precautions than other people with regards to alcohol (maybe not drinking)... but it doesn't have to affect their life. Tell them to dream big! What do they want to do with their lives? They should focus on that! Not on their father or their parents divorce.

Continue to take them to Al-Anon... it will be a long grief process and talking to others who have been there is sooooo theraputic!

Good luck!

veryregretful

I've been to alanon and my kids to alateen about 3 years ago. I ask my kids if they want to go again and they say no. Should I just take them? I know it will be good for them but I don't want them to be angry with me because I'm bringing them. Right next door is an alanon meeting so it would be at the same time. There is one tonight. I should probably ask this question over at friends and family.

Thanks for the replies and I was just really curious about how many recovered alcoholics have lost their families and home many kept their families intact after recovering.

veryregretful

Thank you LBW!!

My AH says that he likes to have a cocktail afterwork because he works so hard. But those 'cocktails' end up like two dozen. lol

He says he's almost 50 and why can't he live his life the way he wants. He fell at a bar or was pushed - don't know the real story - and his head the bottom of a bar stool then probably to the floor. He was taken to the emergency room and he had brain bleeds. In the front and the back of his brain. He was in the hospital for 4 or 5 days and because of this injury he thinks he is justified that he can drink because I almost died so why can't I do what I want? Mind you, he was drunk when he fell. I guess this is the mindset of alcoholics.

I just wanted alcoholics to respond to get their prepective of what goes through their mind and such.

I'm glad right now I have good communication with the kids about their dad. I think I might go in more detail about their cousins and tell them about all in the family who are alcoholics and what their outcomes were. They are all different. I know I'm going to annoy them but they need to understand the rest of their lives are in their hands and they need to make the right choices in life. Hard at times but need to know the outcome of their actions ahead of time would be helpful to them.

I pretty much know how my AH is and blames me and how he reacts while he is drinking. So i try to avoid him as much as possible now, since saturday really.

Thanks for your reply and I wish you the best in your recover!

LBW

If the alcoholic is as abusive and in as much of denial as it sounds like your husband is... I would say you shouldn't hold out hope for a reconciliation.

Your children will also be heartbroken if they think their father will recover and he doesn't. I think the reason children of alcoholics marry an alcoholic is because they are trying to save them. They still think it's their fault that their own parent couldn't quit. If they just loved them enough maybe... They are seeking approval.

If they can learn to accept, really accept, it is not their responsibility to save the alcoholic... and they can let go of the resentment and hurt... maybe they can break the cycle and not marry one.

It has been painful for me to accept my father has changed so drastically. I tried to save him at first. I tried every way I could think of. What a waste of energy! And it was very hurtful to me to try. THen I hated him and resented him. Another waste of energy! Then I was indifferent. At least this let me lead my life.

Now I have sympathy for him and I accept him for who he is... but I still pretty much ignore him. I mean I'm kind to him and I love him, but I don't really conversate with him about important things in my life. He doesn't pay attention anyways. I also remember and love the man he used to be. I think of them as two separate people sometimes.

LBW

How old are your kids? I would say you should make them go to Al-Anon... I think it's important to help them deal with the grief and the anger. They don't know how this is affecting them... you don't know how this is affecting them.

Just tell them you want them to go to support you. That you need support in your effort to get out of a relationship with an alcoholic. That they need to know what to expect.

Yeah, I'm sure the people at Friends and Family site will have a lot more advice.

LBW

My Dad went through a period where he hated my mother and all he did was bad mouth her. She was the reason he had to drink. She just ignored him. I think some alcoholics need a villian to hate -- it takes the hatred off themselves.

It's difficult to understand an alcoholic and usually a waste of time to try. Their minds are sick. Every single alcoholic drinks for different reasons and in different ways.

Trying to understand your husband is just another way of trying to save him. Have you accepted you can't save him? Your father was an alcoholic too... maybe your stuck in this place of trying to save alcoholics. You need to get past that! Help your children to get past it.

LBW

I would have different advice if you told me your husband was really trying to quit. In order to quit drinking, you have to have a spiritual awakening of sorts. You have to be honest with yourself and people you hurt about your sickness. You can't force that on anyone. If the alcoholic quits drinking but doesn't have this spiritual change, they are just dry drunks... like my Dad or your husband when he quit for 8 months.

You need to realize an alcoholic is not logical about his drinking, especially an alcoholic in denial!! You can't say this to yourself, "If he loves me or the children enough, then he would quit..." The man is sick. Love has nothing to do with it. He may be sick forever. The only way he can be saved is through his own awakening, which may never happen. You, especially, can't do anything because he has chosen you as his villian.

veryregretful

Thanks LBW.

I called up today about alateen for the kids. They are 14 year twins. A boy and a girl. I found two meetings around me that have alateen and alanon next door. Good idea about telling them to support me. I've been to the one on Monday's and really didn't like it so we are going to try the one on Tuesdays.

I guess your right for me to understand is trying to save him. I didn't think of it like that. I know he is the only one to save himself. I don't want the kids to have hopes of reconciliation because I don't really think that's going to happen. I'm the villian and always will be the villian. I certainly don't deserve that title but you put it into perspective.

He says he is an alcoholic but doesn't do anything about it so he, himself, if probably in denial. He says he can have one or two beer and be fine but that has not happened since august.

I also think I married him to save him as I look back 20 years. I wish I knew better then but now is the future and have to deal with it now.

As the days go on I realize if he really did want to save himself and have a roof over his head we would have already tried to quit and got help. I know there is nothing I can do but take care of my kids and just go on.

Thanks for the insight. I'll have to reread as it's time for me to leave work.

Thanks so much!!

LBW

Alcoholics are smart. They will say and admit to things just to get you off their backs for awhile. I bet when he admits he's an alcoholic, you feel relief and cut him some slack... or at least you did the first dozen times he said it. You probably thought if he admits it, that must mean he will do something about it.

I've heard that a million times from my sister and my dad... "I know I have a problem. But I don't WANT to quit." I would always say to my husband the other variant, "I know i have a problem. I need to quit one day."

Saying this doesn't make someone less in denial. The alcoholic has so many really, really unlogical thought patterns that they have developed in order to protect their drinking. If they abstain from drinking but don't address these thought patterns or the mess they've made with their previous drinking, they are a dry drunk. They aren't recovering, they are abstaining.

Until they have that spiritual awakening for themselves, they are helpless. By spiritual awakening, I don't mean religious... it can be religious, but not necessarily. It's like when this little light goes off in your head and you finally get it.... "I have a problem. THis is ruining my life. I'm going to quit". Most importantly, you actually work through issues, you start recognizing all your alcoholic thinking patterns that got you where you are. The whole process is a transformation of spirit and personality. Other people can talk more about it. I'm still in the process myself... but I've seen people do this.

It's amazing how much alcohol has affected my life... my Dad and sister's alcoholism has caused me great pain. My own secret high functioning alcoholism caused me silent suffering.

I know it helps me so much to talk to other people I can relate to. You and your kids might benefit from it as well. I hope you find a meeting with people you relate to.

veryregretful

I contacted the kids guidance councilors at school and gave them a heads up on the situation in case their grades drop or their behavior changes. Also, if needed, they will be able to talk with them when the want. Tomorrow night there is an alateen and alanon meeting at the same time so I spoke with the kids about going and the said okay. I said they would be supporting me in coping. I'm glad they agreed.

As for them going to dinner. I knew he would cancel out. He called my son and asked about tomorrow night and my son said i don't know. He doesn't know if he wants to hang with his dad. Which is okay. He's very angry still at his dad. If he decides to go then I will talk with him first about trying not to talk anything about alcoholism. I tell himm the change the subject. Your right that if the kids talk to him about his drinking it will just feed into him.

I still don't think he wants help. He is still actively drinking and the more I read here on SR the easier it is having him not here.

LBW I had to reread your posts a few times to fully grasp what you were saying and you were very helpful. Sometimes it is good to hear from an alcoholics point of view. You've been there and are in recovery now so to pick your brain helped me immensely in changing how I feel that I can change him. I know deep down inside I can't but I am a saver. I try to save people. I tried to save my AH. I try and help when siblings fight or anthing of that nature.

I'll also explain to my children about the alcoholics in my life and the different ways it affects people. From being kind of responsible with drinking to the extreme of wet brain and/or death.

Thanks again LBW - I like reading your posts and wish you well in your recovery. I know it's a lot of hard work and still a lot of hard work for the families themselves to get better.

I'm going to thank you again and give you hugs. (I don't have the patience at this moment on this laptop to look for the hug smiley) but hugs to you!!!!!!!

LBW

It sounds like your a great mother and you are doing what is right for your children. I'm glad you got out of the marriage because it would be more harmful to your kids to be living with him in this abusive alcoholic state than anything else.

You might have your kids suggest to meet their dad for breakfast instead of dinner. Maybe less pressure and less likely their dad will be drunk.

Maybe there are others in Al-Anon with advice on how to keep your kids from becoming alcoholics. I have to say this is my greatest fear with my babies... what can I do to help them not make the mistakes that me or my sister did?

Good luck!



Good luck!

veryregretful

Hi LBW,

Actually my son and daughter are going out to dinner with him tonight. I'm not concerned with him drinking because I am sure he won't be. My daughter definately wants to go and tell him how she feels. She has a lot to tell him. She wants to tell him that she would love for him to come home but he cannot drink. And if he chooses to drink later then he still can't come home. She doesn't want to go through the hurt again. I did tell her he may wish to continue to drink and not come home because I don't want her to be disappointed again. I wish I had her strength. I took me 44 years to get it. My son is very angry still and doesn't want to go but his twin sister told him that he is going and he needs to tell thier dad why he is feeling angry. Maybe after he'll feel better. I'll be here for both of them when they come home. If they need to talk or we could save the talking till tomorrow as it will probably be very emotional for all of them.

I myself have my evening planned out by reading Codependent No More. I'm up to chapter 7 and can't believe that most of what I've read so far is me. This book I'll definately have to reread it to get things I missed the first time. I didn't realize just how sick I was also. I'm up to the controlling chapter and I read the first chapter and it's me again. Lightbulbs are going off in my head as I'm reading it.

I love reading your posts LBW. Today my day was good. It is easier day by day but the hard part is coming to this house and being reminded of both good and bad times. I also realized that the pain I've been having in my hips and legs have gone away. I'll always have spine pain but the hip and thigh pain is virtually gone. I guess stress does odd things to your body.

How was your day today? I hope you had a good one!

Thank you so much
denise

LBW

VeryRegretful,

Everyday since I decided I would never drink again has been a great day! I spent 5 or 6 years binge drinking on weekends followed by 5 solild years drinking pretty much every other night after work. Every other because on the off days I had a hang over.

Over the last 3 years I have been going through a process whereby I abstained from alcohol during several months or I regulated it to only 1 day a week. I succeeded in this respect only by being pregnant or by keeping myself very, very busy training for half-marathons. Even though I wasn't drinking that often, when I did drink I had absolutely no control of myself and I did horribly embarrassing things. I was living in shame but also fear of what I might do if I ever stop putting forth the energy to keep myself so busy.

Last month I decided once in for all that I would never drink again. It's the first time I have come to the conclusion that not drinking is the only way I can outsmart alcoholism. I hear the alcoholic voice in my head panic about this... but I truely feel like I've been liberated and just an immense amount of relief. Only after saying I will never drink again have I begun to truely finally "get it" about how sick my mind was. I have alot to learn about myself and alcoholism in this respect.

Good luck to you and your children! I can really relate to what they are going through.

veryregretful

Good Morning LBW,

I'm glad to hear your story about your drinking. And I'm glad to hear you have your husband to support you. Sometimes I feel that I should have given him one more chance but how many chances am I supposed to give him.

The kids went to dinner with him and the said how they felt. He turned to them and said that he deserved to drink after working so hard so the kids got their answer. I feel very bad for them but I think they needed to hear it from him and not from me.

How can I have him come back if he is still drinking. He thinks he can have a drink watching football and stay away from us to he won't be verbal but I know and I think he knows that's not going to happen.

He is in denial and even him losing his family is not his bottom. Don't know what his bottom is. Maybe when he is on his deathbed. I don't know if I wrote this before but he has severe emphysema and he smokes pot and two packs of cigarettes a day. Last night he was having pain in his chest when I saw him and he said it was the flu. I even think he is in denial with his health. I read online that with severe emphysema untreated you probably only have about 1 to 3 years to live. In his family there is addiction and cancer. For all he know he could have lung cancer going on along with the emphysema. He's had problems with lungs since he was 30. They collapsed on him like three times before he at the surgery to stick them to the chest wall.

I know I can't change him and the only thing I can do is go on with my life the best i can and take care of the kids best i can.

I'm so glad you saw the light and I like to hear good stories. I'm so proud of you! I know it's a hard thing to quit but your kids need you to be there for them.

I'm reading Codependant No More and everything in that book is me. So hard to believe but it's true. How I reacted, I didn't react, etc. I think this book will help me raise my children without being codependant with them and I know I can't control them. They are their unique own person. Just hope they make the right choices. Alateen is in our future for next Tuesday. I'm looking forward to that for them. I can't afford the copayments for therapy for them so we'll start with alateen.

I like talking with you and take care of yourself!

denise