AA-Alcoholism-The science
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 2,548
AA has a low success rate compared to what?
for me..here in the uk.........its plainly obvious.
alcoholics that only do meetings.......most go out again.
alcoholics that engage in the suggested program of action AND have a experienced sponsor for a year or 2.....most stay sober.....and recover.
AA members are responsible for the distant between the two....fellowship/program.
the programs been the same......people have changed the fellowship..
for me......only engaging in the steps and talk of that solution in the meetings works.
talking mindless drivvle......mindless catch phrases.....and group therapy in aa does nothing for the suffering drunk......they just get drunk.
when i make bread....and play with the reciepe.......guess what i get...
pancakes....
for me..here in the uk.........its plainly obvious.
alcoholics that only do meetings.......most go out again.
alcoholics that engage in the suggested program of action AND have a experienced sponsor for a year or 2.....most stay sober.....and recover.
AA members are responsible for the distant between the two....fellowship/program.
the programs been the same......people have changed the fellowship..
for me......only engaging in the steps and talk of that solution in the meetings works.
talking mindless drivvle......mindless catch phrases.....and group therapy in aa does nothing for the suffering drunk......they just get drunk.
when i make bread....and play with the reciepe.......guess what i get...
pancakes....
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
Alcoholism, according to AA is not up for debate or progression. AA still continues to practice on the findings of the original founders.
I suppose AA is kind of like the wheel, some use it as a frisbee, some as something to cook on, some as something to sit on, then there are those of us that follow instructions and use it to roll away to freedom.
I tried for a lot of years to re-invent the wheel, turns out it had already been invented and came with instructions, who'da thunk
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
I go to a CBT counselor, great guy, been doing it for 20 years...thinks AA is great if the resource works for that individual.
We were talking about AA last week, he was saying the exact same thing, maybe AA should change a bit...he reckons that it is far too lenient and there should be a strike policy like have a relapse and you aren't allowed back in for 6 months like a good residential program would and also have a vetting process to see how ready the individual is and enforce the working of the 12 steps with ongoing appraisals by sponsors.
That would be moving with the times but, personally, i would rather put up with the serial relapsers quoting their **** counselors with phrases like relapse is part of recovery than totally exclude them from the program of AA...it's not an exact science IMO you have to have the door open for anyone who has a desire to stop drinking no mattter how insane and full of **** they are when they walk through the door:-)
As for debating the program of AA we have a little group of 6 at our meeting who regularly do that, after the meeting at about the same time they order a beer...they do try and come back in the next meeting and tell us their findings but fortunately there are always people their with long term proper sobriety to clarify their statements to the newcomers...or we would all be getting pissed up with them at the end of the meetings hehe
We were talking about AA last week, he was saying the exact same thing, maybe AA should change a bit...he reckons that it is far too lenient and there should be a strike policy like have a relapse and you aren't allowed back in for 6 months like a good residential program would and also have a vetting process to see how ready the individual is and enforce the working of the 12 steps with ongoing appraisals by sponsors.
That would be moving with the times but, personally, i would rather put up with the serial relapsers quoting their **** counselors with phrases like relapse is part of recovery than totally exclude them from the program of AA...it's not an exact science IMO you have to have the door open for anyone who has a desire to stop drinking no mattter how insane and full of **** they are when they walk through the door:-)
As for debating the program of AA we have a little group of 6 at our meeting who regularly do that, after the meeting at about the same time they order a beer...they do try and come back in the next meeting and tell us their findings but fortunately there are always people their with long term proper sobriety to clarify their statements to the newcomers...or we would all be getting pissed up with them at the end of the meetings hehe
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
CoolMama ....
I thought you wanted to discuss your experiences with AA
meetings. Since I have not attended any meetings as
you described....I could not share about what you stated.
Then.....I noticed this on another Forum
Obviously you have no experience of your own
about AA meetings.
I think a discussion is more interesting if a
person knows the subject from personal experience.
I thought you wanted to discuss your experiences with AA
meetings. Since I have not attended any meetings as
you described....I could not share about what you stated.
Then.....I noticed this on another Forum
I have not used AA myself.
__________________
There's no future in the past..
__________________
There's no future in the past..
about AA meetings.
I think a discussion is more interesting if a
person knows the subject from personal experience.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 333
Please do not be patronising. Just because I have not done something myself doesn't mean I am not allowed an opinion on it - or does it here? I can funnily enough talk and have talked to people who have used AA and have read of people who have used it. I have read enough literature to know that I would not wish to be involved muself but still feel I should be alowed to pass comment. Clearly not. I will leave SR now with my nine months of sobriety intact. Good luck to you all.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by yeahgr8 
We were talking about AA last week, he was saying the exact same thing, maybe AA should change a bit...he reckons that it is far too lenient and there should be a strike policy like have a relapse and you aren't allowed back in for 6 months like a good residential program would and also have a vetting process to see how ready the individual is and enforce the working of the 12 steps with ongoing appraisals by sponsors.
That's utter bullsh#t... wow! It would be like the best surgeons operating with lifesaving techniques only operating on those most likely to live so their statistics would be favorable... so what about the poor guy who needs it, but can't get it because he was vetted out....
I haven't used this one.... it applies
Mark
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Originally Posted by Coolmummy
Please do not be patronising. Just because I have not done something myself doesn't mean I am not allowed an opinion on it - or does it here? I can funnily enough talk and have talked to people who have used AA and have read of people who have used it. I have read enough literature to know that I would not wish to be involved muself but still feel I should be alowed to pass comment. Clearly not. I will leave SR now with my nine months of sobriety intact. Good luck to you all.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Iriss..I think that you will find that many people do question aa ideology. In fact it has been debated since its inception. Fortunately the number of people who find its ideology and religious teachings deplorable are becoming more vocal as the internet is becoming the sole vehicle for communication.
I agree that aa is not science based...it is faith based. The success rates have not changed...they are the same as they have always been. Many of the original founders went back to drinking...hence the changing of the stories in the back of the book.
I agree that aa is not science based...it is faith based. The success rates have not changed...they are the same as they have always been. Many of the original founders went back to drinking...hence the changing of the stories in the back of the book.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Hmm.....
Where did you get this idea?
It's my undersanding ....that the stories were changed to reflect the
changeing of our times. Nothing to do with sobriety time.
AA members were asked to submit their personal stories to the
AASW committee planning to publish Edition 2.
Same is true for the 3rd and 4th Edition.
Each Edition has added more stories.
some outdated ones were dropped.
Just curious as to your source Bugs
Where did you get this idea?
Many of the original founders went back to drinking...hence the changing of the stories in the back of the book.
changeing of our times. Nothing to do with sobriety time.
AA members were asked to submit their personal stories to the
AASW committee planning to publish Edition 2.
Same is true for the 3rd and 4th Edition.
Each Edition has added more stories.
some outdated ones were dropped.
Just curious as to your source Bugs
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Carol...there is a list of the original 40 aa members. (100 was not accurate) This list is available on Dick B's website or it was at one time...it shows which members and subsequent stories needed to be removed due to lack of sobriety. I do know of other sites which provide this info but posting the links is not allowed.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
OK Thanks....
Sorry....I did not understand you were talking about
Edition 1. I was talking about Editions 2-3-4.
Here is a link with the orginal stories-First Edition
AA Big Book -- The Stories
Those were the ones published
The AAWS selection committee information can be
found on the official AA site.
Alcoholics Anonymous : How to Find A.A. Meetings
Sorry....I did not understand you were talking about
Edition 1. I was talking about Editions 2-3-4.
Here is a link with the orginal stories-First Edition
AA Big Book -- The Stories
Those were the ones published
The AAWS selection committee information can be
found on the official AA site.
Alcoholics Anonymous : How to Find A.A. Meetings
Last edited by CarolD; 11-01-2009 at 07:09 AM. Reason: Added Link
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: scotland
Posts: 1,493
these debates seem to turn up every couple of weeks,and its always the same folk AA bashing.i tried AA four years ago and i failed it,,me.i went again at the begining of the year and worked my butt off.my life has changed beyond recogniton.the failings in AA are down to human ego most of the time not the programme.i followed instructions as outlined in the big book.and it worked,no kicking and screaming,no thinking my way was better (where had that got me exaclty??? ) i just got on with it.dont try and fix something that aint broke.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Colorado Prairie
Posts: 1,417
It was deleted so I'll rewrite it a little more PC this time as to not offend anyone. I've offended enough people by simply talking about God in an AA meeting.
Here is AA. The five Ws and the how are described in the book. In a nutshell, "here is how we got sober" if you are interested come in and sit down and we'll explain it to you.
If it doesn't interest you, that's fine and you're more than welcome to go find what you're looking for elsewhere and find your sobriety some other way.
Please do not try to change AA into what you want AA to be and then blame AA for the failure.
Quietly slip away and go find something else that will work.
Here is AA. The five Ws and the how are described in the book. In a nutshell, "here is how we got sober" if you are interested come in and sit down and we'll explain it to you.
If it doesn't interest you, that's fine and you're more than welcome to go find what you're looking for elsewhere and find your sobriety some other way.
Please do not try to change AA into what you want AA to be and then blame AA for the failure.
Quietly slip away and go find something else that will work.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Sobriety is not something you find...it is something you do. I have never been interested in changing aa...it is a religious organization which has its followers so in some way it serves its purpose. The problem with slipping away quietly is that silence does not serve a purpose. The opposite of love is not hate it is indifference...if everyone remained indifferent on the subject the truth that sobriety is up to the individual, not God, would remain cloaked. Freedom of speech remain one of our greatest rights...I encourage everyone to use it. BTW your original post (the one deleted) shows how well the program brings its members serenity.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Colorado Prairie
Posts: 1,417
Bugs, the list of institutions that are of no interest to me is infinite. The list of institutions whose philosophies or principles I disagree withis just as large. I simply choose not to mention them in any part of any conversation I may have. I do not defend, debate or question their motives or actions. Why the obsession with AA on your part if it doesn't interest you??
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