tomvlll

I don't believe that's the answer. Just following along blindly is not a good prescription for anything, let alone sobriety.

Think, Question, but keep an open mind.

justanothrdrunk

Word.

It was only by asking questions that I was able get past step 2.

Boleo

1. Tokens and anniverseries are for the newcomer not those who have "recovered". I myself did not take a token until my sponsor told me I should do it to inspire newcomers.

2. I have 2 higher-powers. Alcohol is more powerful than me, God is more powerful than God.

3. Abstinence is NOT DRINKING and feeling bad about it.

Recovery is NOT DRINKING and felling good about it.

"...to be able to control NOT DRINKING" is just managed abstinence.

Boleo

In Buddhism it is called "Wunien" or "Mushin"
In Zen it is called "ZaZen"
In Taoism it is called "Pu"
Deepak Chopra calls it "The Gap"
Eckhart Tolle calls it "The Now"

NoMoBeer

Just realized what you posted...don't "stop thinking," just don't over think things. I know I was way too smart for the program when I started... I had to un-complicate things, keep it simple and work the program.

I wrestled with every idea and concept in AA for a long time ... but then I "ceased fighting anything or anybody," and let recovery happen.

Trust me, that decision is not one of those you make and forget about, it's a conscious decion I have to make on a regular basis... thankfully it's about progress, not perfection...

joedris

AA teaches us that we should accept the fact that we are powerless over alcohol and that our lives have become unmanageable. It also teaches us that there is a power greater than ourselves that can restore us to sanity. And that we should turn our will and our lives over to the care of this higher power.

I for one have never believed that my higher power alone keeps me sober. I believe that he helps keep me sober. The rest of it is up to me. God will help to move mountains, but first I've gotta go buy a shovel. And who ever said that God keeps us from that first drink? For me it's the program of AA that keeps me from that drink. God just led me to the program. The rest is up to me.

I can have what others have- sobriety, happiness, health, all the stuff. And I must not be using the same Big Book, because I never recalled AA saying that we will never have control. I have control over drinking every day. I do not have to drink. I have control over my life, my emotions, my actions. As much as sometimes I'd like to say "hey God, how about you taking this one for me?" He'd probably ram in down my throat saying that I'm quite capable of doing that by myself.

And lastly, "Why can't God make us normal?" Why do bad things happen to good people? Why are there child molesters, arsonists, murderers, and all sorts of nasty people in this world. That my friend, I can't answer. I've often asked God that very question and He won't answer me. So I play the hand I'm dealt living the best I can is an imperfect world. I try to work on my faults. improver my good attributes, and stay sober one day at a time.

bugsworth

Justsomeguy...I spent 10 months in aa asking very similar questions...the answers I got did not reconcile with my life experience or belief system. In fact some answers were so ridiculous it was hard not to laugh. Please do not allow people to frighten you with the line that some people just have to die...no one has to die they simply choose an alcoholic lifestyle rather than sober up. Sobriety is an inside job...one that takes hard work and determination. No one...diety included gets and keeps you sober...you do that. One step...don't drink...disregard the bad theology...ignore the my way or the highway people and blaze a path that works for you.

Bamboozle

OT

For what seems like the umpteenth time, atheism has nothing to do with faith. A-theism is simply lack of theism. Faith is believing in something without proof. Atheism is simply the absence of belief.

Atheism makes no claims...does not assert anything as truth...and has no dogma. Some who identify as atheists, for example, may also identify as "secular humanist" and have actual beliefs based upon certain ideas surrounding secular humanism, but this is something that is separate from atheism.


Anywho, anyone who wants to talk more about this feel free to shoot me a PM.


I'm bouncing out now.

rondfw777

Well if you can't blame G. Bush, Blame God! Blame someone except yourself! Did Adam eat the apple? Who did he blame? Thats the way the world turns now. Blame someone else and don't be responsible for your own free will actions.

This thread is in the wrong place!


Ron

crzylilmndfreak

er...i believe it was Eve who ate the apple, and it was that snake to blame. Im just sayin'...

freya

Sorry, but if your AA friends "know" God, then there's not anything you can say that'll sway them one way or the other......but, don't worry, you can still be an egomaniac, just based on the fact that you seem to believe that, if God existed, you would understand Him and that He would necessarily be compelled to behave in ways that are accessible to and explainable by human reason.

Try asking yourself this: "What use would God be to you or anyone else if you really could understand Him?"

That'd be a one h*ll of a puny 'god' methinks!

freya

rondfw777

LOL. Actually eve ate the fruit first and then Adam did because of temptation from a women! lol. But the real story is not even close to this,if you actually read it! Must be the brain fog!

NewMe11109

I was a very unwilling pissed off agnostic, so I hear you.

For the sake of my recovery, I just had to ignore my God complex.

I finally settled on: I can't control my drinking and my life sucks.

Please don't use your feelings about God as any sort of excuse or justification for drinking. You need to recover for you.

Parsifal88

It seems to me that you're stuck in some existential-angst-type spiritual/emotional developmental phase..(wow thats a mouth-full!). It's a 'normal' process and you'll eventually come out of the other end of it with 'real' convictions. The fact that you're questioning things and looking to be 'convinced' and your quickness to 'argue' and your 'curiosity' speak volumes that you're stuck and confused and...not entirely comfortable.

If/when you're on the other side of this phase, and you remain a *true* atheist, you wont feel the need to be "convinced" (your words) by other people...or try to disprove (my words) their beliefs.

In the meantime, stand-up and take *true* and *authentic* and *PERSONAL* responsibility for your sobriety. It's not about spiritual/magical gifts from the 'easterbunny' (your words). Your 'questioning' of life, gods, existence, AA, etc... stinks of 'excuses' for why you still drink.

Sorry if i seem harsh...but It's hard to fool thosewho deal with your very same demons...

penny74

Maybe God (or cosmic power or whatever you want to call it) gave you the ability to be responsible for your own actions.
And maybe you should.

justsomeguy

my instinct is to argue, debate, oppose. those things are killing me, this thing is killing me. I'm not so much an atheist as I am a non believer, there could be a higher power, I just don't believe in one I don't believe there isn't on either, I just know I have to live with me every day.

I think i'm just going to have to struggle to be sober long enough to get a clean bill of health for life insurance. struggle to live longer than 2 years so that I can be covered by them. then hope life insurance takes care of my wife.

this thing is going to kill me. it's only a matter of time. I just have to deal with it and try to take care of the people I'm leaving behind.

drama queen right. I don't think I'm over dramatizing it anymore, I think I'm just being realistic.

I owe people I care about money. that's the only thing driving me now. I have to get them paid back , get my wife taken care of, then the hell with it.

I see lots of guys in my AA group that drank longer than me, I'm sure I can survive a few more years, make enough money to pay people back.

Sugah

How's your wife feel about that plan?

Peace & Love,
Sugah

TheMaster

Damn, I thought I had a gloomy outlook...

So you are going to stay sober long enough to pay some bills? Then kick the bucket?

sugErspun

That's a pretty important realization justsomeguy. And the "I have to live with me everyday" - yea, true as well.

How about an answer to all of it? How about being free of "you" and experiencing the joy that comes with it? I assure you it flows to those you love the most as well.

You will get a lot of opinions about AA on these boards. My suggestion is having an experience with AA - and that means the steps.

If you can hold out a couple more years, like you say - find a recovered alcoholic, tell him that you know you are going to drink yourself to an early grave. You have time to find out if recovery is real or not, right? If thereis any interest in avoiding that and turning your life into something you cherish - I can assure you that this thing works. But...I am just a guy that should have drank himself to death before his 35th birthday and somehow haven't had a drink in awhile. I went in with not much hope, and in that state I got free. I would like to say "if I can do it, you can do it", but thats just lip service. How about "try this and tell me I am wrong"?

You DO NOT have to have an idea of what god is, isn't, exists, doesn't exist...you just have to be willing to put aside YOUR opinion to be open for the experience..clean slate and all that. You also have to be willing to do some work, which really turns out to not be work at all.

You also have to want to overcome alcoholism...it's not a way to manage your drinking, rather a way to have the problem removed.

Be realistic - you don't know if it will work or not. That is as real as the fact that it's killing you before your time.


On another note: I don't see the point of paying money back before you decide to do this. Why would you do that?

pm me if you would.

barb dwyer

a wise man once said -

just substitute 'GOD' with the word 'GOOD' until things begin to make more sense.