GOD questions that are going to kill me.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 541
Retired Pro Drunk
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 901
1. If God is responsible for our being sober.. if we did not "do it" if it was "god that kept us sober" why the hell do we congratulate people and celebrate Birthdays??
2. If God is what keeps us from the first drink, is AA implying that Alcohol is more powerful than god? As we all know as alcoholics after the first drink we're F'd. It's downhill from there. If we leave it up to god why can't he stop the second? Why can't God make us drink "normal".
3. How can I want what someone in AA has, when what I want is control of my life. I want to be able to control "NOT DRINKING". AA teaches us we will never have control, we have to leave it up to god? That's not what I want.
2. I have 2 higher-powers. Alcohol is more powerful than me, God is more powerful than God.
3. Abstinence is NOT DRINKING and feeling bad about it.
Recovery is NOT DRINKING and felling good about it.
"...to be able to control NOT DRINKING" is just managed abstinence.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 872
I wrestled with every idea and concept in AA for a long time ... but then I "ceased fighting anything or anybody," and let recovery happen.
Trust me, that decision is not one of those you make and forget about, it's a conscious decion I have to make on a regular basis... thankfully it's about progress, not perfection...
AA teaches us that we should accept the fact that we are powerless over alcohol and that our lives have become unmanageable. It also teaches us that there is a power greater than ourselves that can restore us to sanity. And that we should turn our will and our lives over to the care of this higher power.
I for one have never believed that my higher power alone keeps me sober. I believe that he helps keep me sober. The rest of it is up to me. God will help to move mountains, but first I've gotta go buy a shovel. And who ever said that God keeps us from that first drink? For me it's the program of AA that keeps me from that drink. God just led me to the program. The rest is up to me.
I can have what others have- sobriety, happiness, health, all the stuff. And I must not be using the same Big Book, because I never recalled AA saying that we will never have control. I have control over drinking every day. I do not have to drink. I have control over my life, my emotions, my actions. As much as sometimes I'd like to say "hey God, how about you taking this one for me?" He'd probably ram in down my throat saying that I'm quite capable of doing that by myself.
And lastly, "Why can't God make us normal?" Why do bad things happen to good people? Why are there child molesters, arsonists, murderers, and all sorts of nasty people in this world. That my friend, I can't answer. I've often asked God that very question and He won't answer me. So I play the hand I'm dealt living the best I can is an imperfect world. I try to work on my faults. improver my good attributes, and stay sober one day at a time.
I for one have never believed that my higher power alone keeps me sober. I believe that he helps keep me sober. The rest of it is up to me. God will help to move mountains, but first I've gotta go buy a shovel. And who ever said that God keeps us from that first drink? For me it's the program of AA that keeps me from that drink. God just led me to the program. The rest is up to me.
I can have what others have- sobriety, happiness, health, all the stuff. And I must not be using the same Big Book, because I never recalled AA saying that we will never have control. I have control over drinking every day. I do not have to drink. I have control over my life, my emotions, my actions. As much as sometimes I'd like to say "hey God, how about you taking this one for me?" He'd probably ram in down my throat saying that I'm quite capable of doing that by myself.
And lastly, "Why can't God make us normal?" Why do bad things happen to good people? Why are there child molesters, arsonists, murderers, and all sorts of nasty people in this world. That my friend, I can't answer. I've often asked God that very question and He won't answer me. So I play the hand I'm dealt living the best I can is an imperfect world. I try to work on my faults. improver my good attributes, and stay sober one day at a time.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Justsomeguy...I spent 10 months in aa asking very similar questions...the answers I got did not reconcile with my life experience or belief system. In fact some answers were so ridiculous it was hard not to laugh. Please do not allow people to frighten you with the line that some people just have to die...no one has to die they simply choose an alcoholic lifestyle rather than sober up. Sobriety is an inside job...one that takes hard work and determination. No one...diety included gets and keeps you sober...you do that. One step...don't drink...disregard the bad theology...ignore the my way or the highway people and blaze a path that works for you.
OT
For what seems like the umpteenth time, atheism has nothing to do with faith. A-theism is simply lack of theism. Faith is believing in something without proof. Atheism is simply the absence of belief.
Atheism makes no claims...does not assert anything as truth...and has no dogma. Some who identify as atheists, for example, may also identify as "secular humanist" and have actual beliefs based upon certain ideas surrounding secular humanism, but this is something that is separate from atheism.
Anywho, anyone who wants to talk more about this feel free to shoot me a PM.
I'm bouncing out now.
For what seems like the umpteenth time, atheism has nothing to do with faith. A-theism is simply lack of theism. Faith is believing in something without proof. Atheism is simply the absence of belief.
Atheism makes no claims...does not assert anything as truth...and has no dogma. Some who identify as atheists, for example, may also identify as "secular humanist" and have actual beliefs based upon certain ideas surrounding secular humanism, but this is something that is separate from atheism.
Anywho, anyone who wants to talk more about this feel free to shoot me a PM.
I'm bouncing out now.
Well if you can't blame G. Bush, Blame God! Blame someone except yourself! Did Adam eat the apple? Who did he blame? Thats the way the world turns now. Blame someone else and don't be responsible for your own free will actions.
This thread is in the wrong place!
Ron
This thread is in the wrong place!
Ron
er...i believe it was Eve who ate the apple, and it was that snake to blame. Im just sayin'...
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
Try asking yourself this: "What use would God be to you or anyone else if you really could understand Him?"
That'd be a one h*ll of a puny 'god' methinks!
freya
I was a very unwilling pissed off agnostic, so I hear you.
For the sake of my recovery, I just had to ignore my God complex.
I finally settled on: I can't control my drinking and my life sucks.
Please don't use your feelings about God as any sort of excuse or justification for drinking. You need to recover for you.
For the sake of my recovery, I just had to ignore my God complex.
I finally settled on: I can't control my drinking and my life sucks.
Please don't use your feelings about God as any sort of excuse or justification for drinking. You need to recover for you.
If/when you're on the other side of this phase, and you remain a *true* atheist, you wont feel the need to be "convinced" (your words) by other people...or try to disprove (my words) their beliefs.
In the meantime, stand-up and take *true* and *authentic* and *PERSONAL* responsibility for your sobriety. It's not about spiritual/magical gifts from the 'easterbunny' (your words). Your 'questioning' of life, gods, existence, AA, etc... stinks of 'excuses' for why you still drink.
Sorry if i seem harsh...but It's hard to fool thosewho deal with your very same demons...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA today, TX,KS,IL previously
Posts: 107
my instinct is to argue, debate, oppose. those things are killing me, this thing is killing me. I'm not so much an atheist as I am a non believer, there could be a higher power, I just don't believe in one I don't believe there isn't on either, I just know I have to live with me every day.
I think i'm just going to have to struggle to be sober long enough to get a clean bill of health for life insurance. struggle to live longer than 2 years so that I can be covered by them. then hope life insurance takes care of my wife.
this thing is going to kill me. it's only a matter of time. I just have to deal with it and try to take care of the people I'm leaving behind.
drama queen right. I don't think I'm over dramatizing it anymore, I think I'm just being realistic.
I owe people I care about money. that's the only thing driving me now. I have to get them paid back , get my wife taken care of, then the hell with it.
I see lots of guys in my AA group that drank longer than me, I'm sure I can survive a few more years, make enough money to pay people back.
I think i'm just going to have to struggle to be sober long enough to get a clean bill of health for life insurance. struggle to live longer than 2 years so that I can be covered by them. then hope life insurance takes care of my wife.
this thing is going to kill me. it's only a matter of time. I just have to deal with it and try to take care of the people I'm leaving behind.
drama queen right. I don't think I'm over dramatizing it anymore, I think I'm just being realistic.
I owe people I care about money. that's the only thing driving me now. I have to get them paid back , get my wife taken care of, then the hell with it.
I see lots of guys in my AA group that drank longer than me, I'm sure I can survive a few more years, make enough money to pay people back.
Absolute Evil
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 206
my instinct is to argue, debate, oppose. those things are killing me, this thing is killing me. I'm not so much an atheist as I am a non believer, there could be a higher power, I just don't believe in one I don't believe there isn't on either, I just know I have to live with me every day.
I think i'm just going to have to struggle to be sober long enough to get a clean bill of health for life insurance. struggle to live longer than 2 years so that I can be covered by them. then hope life insurance takes care of my wife.
this thing is going to kill me. it's only a matter of time. I just have to deal with it and try to take care of the people I'm leaving behind.
drama queen right. I don't think I'm over dramatizing it anymore, I think I'm just being realistic.
I owe people I care about money. that's the only thing driving me now. I have to get them paid back , get my wife taken care of, then the hell with it.
I see lots of guys in my AA group that drank longer than me, I'm sure I can survive a few more years, make enough money to pay people back.
I think i'm just going to have to struggle to be sober long enough to get a clean bill of health for life insurance. struggle to live longer than 2 years so that I can be covered by them. then hope life insurance takes care of my wife.
this thing is going to kill me. it's only a matter of time. I just have to deal with it and try to take care of the people I'm leaving behind.
drama queen right. I don't think I'm over dramatizing it anymore, I think I'm just being realistic.
I owe people I care about money. that's the only thing driving me now. I have to get them paid back , get my wife taken care of, then the hell with it.
I see lots of guys in my AA group that drank longer than me, I'm sure I can survive a few more years, make enough money to pay people back.
So you are going to stay sober long enough to pay some bills? Then kick the bucket?
That's a pretty important realization justsomeguy. And the "I have to live with me everyday" - yea, true as well.
How about an answer to all of it? How about being free of "you" and experiencing the joy that comes with it? I assure you it flows to those you love the most as well.
You will get a lot of opinions about AA on these boards. My suggestion is having an experience with AA - and that means the steps.
If you can hold out a couple more years, like you say - find a recovered alcoholic, tell him that you know you are going to drink yourself to an early grave. You have time to find out if recovery is real or not, right? If thereis any interest in avoiding that and turning your life into something you cherish - I can assure you that this thing works. But...I am just a guy that should have drank himself to death before his 35th birthday and somehow haven't had a drink in awhile. I went in with not much hope, and in that state I got free. I would like to say "if I can do it, you can do it", but thats just lip service. How about "try this and tell me I am wrong"?
You DO NOT have to have an idea of what god is, isn't, exists, doesn't exist...you just have to be willing to put aside YOUR opinion to be open for the experience..clean slate and all that. You also have to be willing to do some work, which really turns out to not be work at all.
You also have to want to overcome alcoholism...it's not a way to manage your drinking, rather a way to have the problem removed.
Be realistic - you don't know if it will work or not. That is as real as the fact that it's killing you before your time.
On another note: I don't see the point of paying money back before you decide to do this. Why would you do that?
pm me if you would.
How about an answer to all of it? How about being free of "you" and experiencing the joy that comes with it? I assure you it flows to those you love the most as well.
You will get a lot of opinions about AA on these boards. My suggestion is having an experience with AA - and that means the steps.
If you can hold out a couple more years, like you say - find a recovered alcoholic, tell him that you know you are going to drink yourself to an early grave. You have time to find out if recovery is real or not, right? If thereis any interest in avoiding that and turning your life into something you cherish - I can assure you that this thing works. But...I am just a guy that should have drank himself to death before his 35th birthday and somehow haven't had a drink in awhile. I went in with not much hope, and in that state I got free. I would like to say "if I can do it, you can do it", but thats just lip service. How about "try this and tell me I am wrong"?
You DO NOT have to have an idea of what god is, isn't, exists, doesn't exist...you just have to be willing to put aside YOUR opinion to be open for the experience..clean slate and all that. You also have to be willing to do some work, which really turns out to not be work at all.
You also have to want to overcome alcoholism...it's not a way to manage your drinking, rather a way to have the problem removed.
Be realistic - you don't know if it will work or not. That is as real as the fact that it's killing you before your time.
On another note: I don't see the point of paying money back before you decide to do this. Why would you do that?
pm me if you would.
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