Summer

The alcoholic I live with tells me that he has a problem and wants to get help then denies it the next week. About 2 weeks ago he phoned his mom and told her he needs help. He's been drinking all week and then tells her everthings good, everythings o.k., 100 percent. He's told others as well that he's an alcoholic and should not drink. Then he tells his sister that he doesn't think he has a problem (while he's drinking) and everything is good with us which I'm sure he knows is totally not true. He's gone to a few AA meetings this year but no commitment to any kind of help. Should I confront him about this or would I be wasting my time? I go to Alanon and I think I know the answer to that one. Just wondering if that's normal for an A?
Summer

Peter

The behaviour you described sounds pretty similar to my own when I was drinking.

I had the ability to tell people exactly what they wanted to hear.

It is called "lies and manipulation"

I defiantly defended my drinking and behaviour and tried to make every body feel that they were the one with the problem.

It is called "denial".

Keep going to your Alanon meetings, only the alcoholic can save himself.

You can offer support and encouragement to help him if he decides to stop drinking but the alcoholic is responsible for his own recovery.

Alanon may not be able to tell you how to stop your alcoholic from drinking but it may be able to help you to make some healthy decisions for yourself.

MootPoint

When THIS alcoholic was drinking and denying she had a problem, she would get angry if this suggestion was made.

It had to come from within me to realize that I had a problem.

It sounds like he's on his way to admitting he has a problem. I wouldn't push him if I were you.

As Peter says, just keep going to AlAnon and listen to what they have to say. They certainly have more wisdom than me.

Chy

Oh yea! Me to.. I'd get real pissy if it was brought up then go buy another 6 pack. He's in limbo between admission and denial. Hopefully he'll lean more towards the admission side and go back to meetings. Otherwise you keep going to those alanon meetings!

Don W

Hi, He sounds just like myself. I would go back and forth, I am, Iam not. Funny, I was at a meeting this morning and I talked about this. I would think I had a problem--- then decide that alcohol wasn't the problem it was I drank to much. Then I would again procede with trying to learn how to drink. I guess you can try and take solice in the fact that he at least sometimes think he has a problem. This, being in comparison to him outright saying no problem. This is hard for someone without the problem to understand. However, to someone like myself I can understand his position. This struggle went on wether I was drinking or not,
so sadly you may not get any quick results. The key, like the others have mentioned is he is responsibe for himself, and you must take care of yourself. I suggest you go to Al-Anon also. One thing that helped me focus is my wife stopped being an enabler. This is a very complex problem that sometimes has many underlying issues. Just removing the alcohol in many cases is not
enough. He may need to seek help with these along with the alcohol. My own case I had to deal with PTSD issues from Vietnam
and physical/sexual abuse growing up. You may want to check out the PTSD site here FYI. The more you learn will help you and maybe him, once he make a move. I don't want to compare you to my wife but, she had a big issue with self-blame for my problem. Keep posting and I'll say a prayer for you and your family. Don w

Music

Hi Summer,
You said the "alcoholic I live with" so I'm not sure which way to go here.
If you're married, I'd say give it a year or so, only if there's no physical abuse toward you or any kids, if there are any. Then, at the end of a year, assuming you're still in Al-Anon look at the situation and ask yourself how much more do you want to invest in this relationship.
If you're not married, I'd jump right to the last step and decide how much more you're willing to invest. Sounds like it's making your life miserable so that may not be a hard question to answer.

EndOfRoadWife

My husband does the same thing..About a month ago, I told him to leave cause I was sick of his binging and staying out all night with friends. The next day, he was very upset, crying and everything. He came home and asked me to go to Barnes and Nobles for him to buy a book on Defeating Alcoholism..Two weeks later, he was back to drinking and doesn't seem to think he has a problem now. He thinks I am the one with the problem...It's so weird how one minute he admits it and then the next minute, there is nothing wrong with him....It's me he says that is the miserable one.......It is very frustrating

EndOfRoadWife

About 15 minutes after I had just posted on here, my husband called here crying saying he woke up at 7:00AM this morning in his car and he don't even know where he was last night..He was crying saying he is sorry and he knows that he is losing his family but he said he doesn't know anything else...He said when he is upset he drinks and when he drinks, he doesn't care.........Now, the past month, he hasn't cared at all I must say......I know even though he is remorseful today, next week when he is at work with his friends, he is going to feel like he don't care again....It is such a hopeless situation......The past 2 summers he had gardened and so was proud of all his gardening and taking care of it...then, he got a job in the mortgage business which is his friends business and the stress from the job mixed with working with friends has made his drinking problem worse...It is a no win situation for him...This summer, the garden that he planted is all filled with weeds and the vegetables have died....That garden symbolizes what our family has become...The things and people that he loved the most at one time, he hasn't nutured (much like his garden)....It is all filled with weeds.....It makes me sad to look at that garden because it's just a reflection.......................

Jhana

Hello EndofRoadWife,

It was so hard to read your posts. I feel your pain, and cringe because I am also that alcoholic. Fortunately, I have not had anyone in my life for the last few years of drinking. I, too, love to garden, and right now mine also looks like a mess. It is a metaphor and a reflection. Slowly but surely I am clearing out the wreckage of drinking, and the garden will come next week. I am back leading a sober life and of course the difference is amazing.

Has your husband tried posting on this site? I did it as a last ditch effort over two weeks ago, in the middle of a 3AM anxiety attack, and it has changed my life. I could not get past the bar after work to see my "friends" (all of whom will not miss me). Drinking people are friends mostly because we give each other an excuese to get blotto. I quit for a long time years ago, and went back to my old bar one night years after I had been sober. There on the barstools were two of my "friends" who said, "Wow! We haven't seen you in weeks!" So much for bar friends. Here at this site I have a daily correspondence with people all over the world who care, and understand. I hope you are getting some relief by being here, and if you can get him to try it, well, amazing things happen!

Gianna

EndOfRoadWife

Thanks Gianna! I discovered this site recently and when I'm feeling down, this site seems to help...I sometimes have been finding really good posts on here about what people are going through and I sometimes will forward those posts to my husbands workplace...I always think that if it could just touch way somewhere down deep in his soul in some way, then maybe he could get help....My husband would be the type to be "too embarrased" or "he's not like them" to get on here and talk to people..I have told him (when he admitted the 1 time last month and bought the book on defeating alcoholish) to please go to Alcoholic Anonymous and talk to people that are going through the same thing as you...I have told him about this website (which I think is GREAT) to get on here and read and get in touch with people going through the same thing...He probably would say he didn't have time....I am going to keep trying though......I think there is a lot of hope and happiness awaiting for you and I commend you for you making that first step on your own...That says a lot about you and the other people on here that have been on your road to recovery...I like to read and try to understand what people go through that have this disease, so I can understand what struggle he would be dealing with also....Good luck!!!! Thanks again Danielle

Music

Hi there EndofRoad,
You wrote:
" He thinks I am the one with the problem...It's so weird how one minute he admits it and then the next minute, there is nothing wrong with him....It's me he says that is the miserable one.......It is very frustrating"

Your husband is right....you are the one with the problem. Unfortunately the problem is your husband. How much do you want to invest and for how long? Only you can answer those questions. In the meantime, I'd suggest Al-Anon if you aren't going already so that whatever happens, you'll have some kind of support group to help you out.

Jhana

Hi Danielle,

You will find invaluable help here, and in Al-anon and in AA for your husband if you try those. I am a long time veteran of AA (probably 20 years altogether) and have gotten incredible help over the years. Through that program I stayed sober most of those 20 years, the longest stretch of time being 13 years. This last go-round with drinking came about partly because I was no longer really connecting with AA the way I did early on, and this web-site has filled in the gap I needed. It offers both anonymity and directness that I cherish. In AA, there are a lot of side trips into people's other problems, and sometimes it can be hard to get the things out there that you need to say to get the kind of help you need. I look to the outside world like I have it all together: job, children, boyfriend, athletic activities, etc. but goodness I was in desparate shape 2+weeks ago. As I sit here today sober and happy, I cannot believe I let myself succumb to this disease once more, but it is a physical thing. We alcoholics can keep it at bay, but I truly believe to do that we need each other. Perhaps your husband would consider at some point sending a private message to someone here, if he will not post himself.

I, of course, would be glad to share what I know of this with him; Don (above) would be a good start if he would feel more comfortable corresponding with a man. If he can only make that first step of connecting, he will be astonished at how people will understand in great detail what he is going through. (There's no mystery here; the experience of being an alcoholic is very predictable). In years and years of listening to stories, there is nothing left in my "story" that I have not heard someone else tell.

You sound like a wonderful woman, and although this may be hard to see at this point, you have started the process of change in your life and thus, his, by just being here.

So glad you ARE here,
Gianna

EndOfRoadWife

Thanks again..I will try....He went on another drinking spree on Saturday after being upset about it Saturday morning....I told him not to come home and he came home anyway on Sunday...I asked him what is the problem and he said that he doesn't know what the problem is...I asked him "What do I do to deserve this? and he said "Nothing." I know a church in my area has Al-Anon on Friday evenings...I know I need to go..I do get afraid though that someone would know me as my children are very involved in activities in the area...You know how you get afraid of people knowing....He's just gotten really bad the last 2 years when he took this job with friends. Maybe, I could muster up some courage and go and not worry about someone seeing me..That's why I like this site. Thanks again!

Jhana

Hi Danielle (EndOfRoadWife),

You should by all means consider going to that Al-Anon meeting; yes, you may meet someone you know, but hey, I doubt if he/she will be there because there are no good movies around! My experience has been, after 100's (if not 1000's) of AA meetings, that people rarely break the anonymity of the program. To my knowledge, no one that I have not personally told, knows of my problem.

That said, you may find out at some point that the horse is out of the barn, so to speak, about your husband's drinking. Don't forget you have a loose cannon there, and I doubt that discretion is his first thought. I will tell you a story: My Father, God rest his troubled soul, was a terrible alcoholic and suffered mightelly ...ally? (they need spell check here) from this disease. He never did get help, sadly. Well, my Mother suffered with him until his death, and then was very careful to keep a lid on his alcoholic history (she was appalled when I told her about myself...appalled not about my drinking, but about my going to AA). She never did get comfortable with it.

After her death, while I was clearing out her house, I went to lunch several times with her friend next door. While my Mother had never spoken to her about my Father, turns out his excessive drinking was common knowledge around our smallish town, and the only one who did NOT know that everyone else knew about my Father's alcoholism was, of course, my Mother.

I tell you this story only to say how much I wish my Mother had done what you are thinking of doing-going to Al-Anon. She would have gotten much-needed help, and in so doing, possibly changed the course of my Father's life. Without knowing it, our significant others do for us alcoholics what is referred to as "enabling". Patterns of behavior develop that we count on. When those patterns change, we also must react differently.

i.e. your husband telling you you have done "Nothing" to deserve this. Alcoholics are great at feeling sorry for themselves behaving so badly. What to do since we are such awful people? Have another drink. Al-anon will teach you all the tricks of the trade while emphasizing to you that there is nothing you can do for him until he is ready, but there is plenty you can do for yourself. Alcoholics love to be the center of attention, and straightaway, Al-anon will make you stop being a supporting player and give you back your starring role in your own life. I have seen many miracles happen through Al-Anon.

Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers,
Gianna

EndOfRoadWife

Gianna,

Maybe I will go this Friday night. Maybe I can see if my mom or someone can go with me for my first time. My father, too, was an alcoholic. Unfortunately, his drinking and going out with "friends" caused the divorce between my mom and him when I was still a child. He had diabetes and died at 43. I e-mailed my husband at work yesterday and told him that he has to choose between beer and friends or his family. I told him not to come home if he is not willing to give up the beer and friends. He never responded, but left messages that evening that he has nowhere to go, nowhere to turn and he doesn't know what he's going to do, he said he's stuck....I get confused by his statements because I'm sure he knows that I would be there for him if he chose the "right" decision...I even had driven him to a re-hab last month (without his knowledge initially as to where we were going) and he said to me as we sat there "Don't you think this is going to the extreme?"...I said "NO"...He tried to act like he doesn't have a problem to the counselor there and he never followed up with any appointments to their outpatient program. I even made an appointment for marriage counseling which he didn't show up because he was "too busy" at work...So, I went myself and cancelled my 2nd appointment because I felt too stupid going myself without him when it takes 2 to work things out. Did I do the right thing by giving him an ultimatum? I just don't know what else to do.

Jhana

Hi Danielle,

Your situation is heartbreaking and all too common. To someone who isn't an alcoholic the choice is so obvious. Yet to us who are in the yoke of this disease, while the choice to not drink may be obvious, and maintainable one day at a time, we all, at one time or another, and against all our best intentions, and with years sober, crave that one drink KNOWING all the while deep down that we will never have just one. In fact it is a mystery to us how you non-alcoholics can be satisfied with just one.

Re: counseling. As most alcoholism counselors know, for everyone who actually benefits, there are many many disconnects. Unless the alcoholic chooses to go for himself, that is practically always the case. Your husband must make the decision to seek help for himself, not for you or the family, or anything else. The truth here is unless he accepts the fact that he is destroying his own life, and thus, affecting all whom he loves, his chances of sticking with not drinking are very slim.

When I came back to sobriety this time, it was because I am deeply in love. BUT, drinking, I am not the person my boyfriend fell in love with. (he's 63 by the way and I am 58, but don't know what other term there is but "boyfriend") It became very apparent to me that I had lost myself, and that without myself I had nothing. My decision was to seek help at any cost, even if I had to lose him to do it. (He drinks normally, and when I am with him on weekends, there was some "normal" drinking on my part-then I would wreck myself all week). As far as I was concerned, I was between a rock and a hard place in that I thought social drinking was important to him, and that if I admitted I couldn't do it, he would leave. But Danielle, he would have left anyway if I didn't check my downward spiral. Well, he hasn't left and our relationship is better than ever. He was amazed that I ever thought he would care if I didn't drink. He had noticed wierdness of course-thought it was drugs.

I say all this because...

Re: Ultimatum You are right in telling him he must seek help, that you cannot go on like this. But, you should let him know you love him, and that you are seeking help for yourself through Al-Anon. Your strength and self-respect in taking this step may inspire him in ways that nothing else will, AND you will be doing something very important for your own stability in this. Alcoholics are very manipulative-we are masters at it-and as long as that is the game we will keep trying to work it. An "ultimatum" being issued is something we can deal with, however negative it may seem to our lives. Why, what a great thing to drink over: "Poor me, I don't know which way to turn, I am losing my family, my job...etc. poor me, pour me another drink."

In any case Danielle, you have no control over him. The only thing you can do is change yourself and your way of being in, and if necessary, out, of this situation. Personally, although it will be a rocky road, I am betting on Al-Anon to help you, AND him. You will break the cycle and new stuff can happen.

Have courage,
Gianna

Music

Hi EndofRoad,
Your husband DOES have somewhere to go. You took him there and he didn't have a problem. Now he has a problem. The problem is he either chooses treatment or the family. He just doesn't want to make the choice because he isn't ready to quit drinking yet.
Maybe it will take losing the family, but even then, who knows?

EndOfRoadWife

Gianna: Thanks. It really helps hearing from you and it helps me to try to understand like when you said "To someone who isn't an alcoholic, the choice is so obvious". I told my husband that if he needs someone to talk to, that you even offered and there are even plenty of other people...(I don't know if he would or not, cause he would be shy when it came to something like this)

Music: You are right. He DOES have somewhere to go. I just don't know if he can get the courage to actually go to AA or a treatment center...I HATE when he tries to quit on his own..It has never worked yet......

I came home from soccer tonight at 7:30 and his car was there...Meanwhile, I have been giving him specific instructions on NOT coming home unless he is willing to give up the friends & beer...I asked him what are you doing home? He said he guesses he is getting clothes..I told him I have given him chance after chance at getting himself help and I can't help someone who doesn't know what the problem is...He broke down and said that he doesn't know why he drinks and he never used to be like this and he can't understand why he is now..I told him he has ALWAYS had a problem WHEN he drank...He never could quit WHEN he drank....It's just now with the mixture of the stress of the job and friends, it has brought the disease out more and he is doing it more....I told him we will stand by him if he chooses to get help, but if he doesn't, we will NOT be there for him..I said everybody is here for you..your mom, dad, brothers and sisters and your family....I told him that I'm not going to enable him by being with him if he chooses to continue... I said "Do you want to quit drinking?"....He said "Yes".....I said "Will you go to AA?" he said "NO"...I said "Will you go to an outpatient treatment center? and he said "No, he doesn't have time with his work..".....just great I thought....I told him he can't quit on his own...I said there are some great people on this website and they really help each other....He said that he sometimes does read posts on here....I don't know...I just don't trust him "trying" by himself when he is in that environment working with friends...That is just too much temptation.....How did you both quit? Did you need AA or a treatment center?

Don W

Hi Danielle, I am glad you are still working on this problem. Many give up and continue to settle for less. I know my wife Debby did. I am not proud of it but, I think sometimes, no many times I took advantage of her fear of others finding out. Your husband sounds like he is being tormented withmixed
emotions. I would be willing to either corispond with him or post for you to forward to him, if you think it may help.
I wouldn't want to make matters worse
for you. However, maybe if some of us were to send him some posts, he may
read something that will help him identify. Sort of brings the message to him. Let me know if I can help. I am not an expert but, I can feel and identify with both your's and his pain. The bottom line is to protect yourself and the kids from harm. When we drink
it is next to impossible to think of others and the pain we are causeing. Alcohol,
giave me a false sense that things were OK. Even when my world was falling around me. God Bless. Don W

Jhana

Hi Danielle,

When I finally couldn't stand it anymore I went to AA, thinking, "Well, now I have really hit rock bottom." Instead I found, not so strangely, the same society and companionship I found in bars drinking, except they were sober. Just as much fun, but now we all made sense, and people remembered what happened the next day. When you think about it, we are the same people: drunk alcoholics and sober alcoholics. My first meeting was over 20 years ago, and I wish I could say I stayed continuously sober all those years. I have probably racked up 17 out of the 20 sober, but every time I drifted from the program, I lost it and went back to drinking. (you will find as many experiences as there are people) By the way, one of these threads is just drinking stories-check in the AA forum. It may be helpful.

My personal feeling is that I am a lousy failure at doing it alone. Besides it is miserable! Why would I want to not drink and be miserable as well, when I can not drink and have friends and fun and laughs and support through sites like this and through AA? By your own telling, your husband has tried it alone and it didn't work. What's going to be different this time? Besides, this is a disease with a proven physical component, and it is progressive. Your husband is not wrong in thinking things have gotten worse. They have, and they will not get better. "Once a pickle, never again a cucumber" is a saying in AA.

Back to Al-Anon. I REALLY urge you to go Friday. I urge you to go for yourself, and secondly to go as an example for him. And give it a few meetings. Meetings all have personalities, and you need a sampling to understand how great these programs are.

I will leave you tonight with this thought: Finding AA was without a doubt, the best thing that ever happened in my life. It is a fellowship of great compassion, humanity and shared knowledge that has allowed me to make of my life much more than I ever dreamed possible.

Gianna