TakingCharge999

It amazes me how an active alcoholic made me cry with his hurtful words while drunk, then deny him or alcohol had anything to do with my feelings, then move on to another enabler and say I am at fault for everything wrong with this world and call me his enemy.

Back in your active alcoholism days, did you really believe your own lies?

Or deep deep down in a place you showed no one, you knew what you were doing and who you were hurting?

faulkner

Sounds like you're looking for a reason for hope. I say let him go, unless he's family. You can never guess what's going on in another person's mind and, trying to do so, only makes things more frustrating for you. The best thing you can do is concentrate on yourself and your own positive actions.

For the record, when I was drinking heaviest, I think I was incapable of the internal dialogue that you describe. Alcohol pretty much fogged up all my decision-making even though I was functioning at a high level.

Taking5

I have been in AA for 4 years with 3 relapses: one was a 3 month relapse that nearly killed me, the other 2 were much easier at 4 and 1 days respectfully. I do not believe I know all the people I hurt - heck I don't even remember whole weeks - so there has to be more people out there that I have hurt and don't even realize it and can never make amends to.

I don't believe I hurt anyone worse than I hurt myself however. All the things I should have had in my life - wife, kids, a home of my own - these opportunities I drank away.

yeahgr8

Yes definitely you do believe your own lies and become more insane with the years of drinking. In the morning i was always sorry for the things i had done and/or said, but i did not really believe that what i said/did was important to the extent that i did not consider anyone elses feelings other than my own. I declared never ending love to a number of partners, moving from enabler to enabler...it was because i had not met the right woman yet that would be the answer to all my problems...then when they proved not to be the answer to my problems i resented them and blamed them for everything.

I stopped dating a while ago, when drinking, as i could not bear to go through the same pattern as usual wherein the partner thinks she has got lucky with this special, different guy for the first few months then the remainder of the time is watching her looking on with sadness and confusion in her eyes as the merry cycle of self destruction and the all the rest that goes with it returns. Most of the other alchies i know just carry on wreaking destruction and sowing misery from relationship to relationship, buyer beware! If you date an alchie with 3 years plus good sobriety you got chance for an amazing future, you date an active alchie IMO you are as insane as they are whatever your justification for doing so!

I sometimes check out F and F, don't post there though. There seems to be some confusion as to how the partner can move onto a new relationship and seem to be doing well and making their new partner happy whilst in active addiction/alcoholism...think of it as a geograpical move, for a while it is a new thing and everything is ok but sooner than later the realisation will dawn that you have taken all of your **** with you and nothing has changed, then watch out;-)

I am certain that every sober alcoholic i know would agree with what i have said, although they may have some thoughts on the time before dating an alchie, i.e. 3 years sobriety, some say 1, some say 2...you ssay tomato...hehe

keithj

TC,

One thing I've become convinced of by browsing the Family and Friends forum is that our alcoholism affects those around us every bit as much as it affects ourselves. And the other thing I've learned is that you guys need recovery as much as we do. Focus on that recovery instead of him.

To a large extent, I was insane. I could not see the truth of my delusions while I still had an alcoholic mind. The first few times I read the Big Book's 'To Wives' chapter, I thought it was soft-sell, go easy on the poor alkie crap. It read like an excuse for the alcoholic's behavior. Over time, though, I see it's merit as just giving spiritual direction to the spouse. Nothing more. Those directions can free you of the pain the alcoholic causes.

I'll share one more thing. I absolutely did not know what love was until I took the 12 steps, had a spiritual awakening, and recovered. I learned how to love another person by that process. And the rough part is, that I didn't know that I didn't know until I was on the back side of that process. I thought I knew what love was. It wasn't until I experienced something else that I knew how deluded I had been.

MycoolFitz

Well they weren't techynically lies. Alcoholics create their own reality. Booze changes the brain chemistry and is mind as well as mood altering.

Gerald G. May, M.D., in Addiction and Grace, defines addiction as "any compulsive, habitual behavior that limits the freedom of human desire. It is caused by attachments, or nailing, of desires to specific objects. Five essential characteristics mark true addiction: (1) tolerance, (2) withdrawal symptoms, (3) self-deception, (4) loss of will power, and (5) distortion of attention."

In a 1992 JAMA article, the Joint Committee of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence and the American Society of Addiction Medicine published this definition for alcoholism: "Alcoholism is a primary chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, mostly denial. Each of these symptoms may be continuous or periodic"

"Primary" refers to the nature of alcoholism as a disease entity in addition to and separate from other pathophysiologic states may be associated with it. It suggests that alcoholism, as an addiction, is not a symptom of an underlying disease state.
"Disease" means an involuntary disability. It represents the sum of the abnormal phenomena displayed by a group of individuals. These phenomena are associated with a specified common set of characteristics by which these individuals differ from the norm, and which places them at a disadvantage.
"Often Progressive and Fatal" means that the disease persists over time and that physical, emotional, and social changes are often cumulative and may progress as drinking continues. Alcoholism cause premature death through overdose, organic complications involving the brain, liver, heart and many other organs, and by contributing to suicide, homicide, motor vehicle crashes, and other traumatic events.
"Impaired Control" means the inability to limit alcohol use or to consistently limit on any drinking occasion the duration of the episode, the quantity consumed, and/or the behavioral consequences of drinking.
"Preoccupation" in association with alcohol use indicates excessive, focused attention given to the drug alcohol, its effects, and/or its use. The relative value thus assigned to alcohol by the individual often leads to a diversion of energies away from important life concerns.
"Adverse Consequences" are alcohol-related problems or impairments in such areas as: physical health (e.g., alcohol withdrawal syndromes, liver disease, gastritis, anemia, neurological disorders); psychological functioning (e.g., impairments in cognition, changes in mood and behavior); interpersonal functioning (e.g., marital problems and child abuse, impaired social relationships); occupational functioning (e.g., scholastic or job problems); and legal, financial, or spiritual problems.
"Denial" is used here not only in the psychoanalytic sense of a single psychological defense mechanism disavowing the significance of events, but more broadly to include a range of psychological maneuvers designed to reduce awareness of the fact that alcohol use is the cause of an individual's problems rather than a solution to those problems. Denial becomes an integral part of the disease and a major obstacle to recovery.
"Tolerance" is the phenomenon of always wanting or needing more of the addictive behavior or the object of attachment to feel satisfied.
"Withdrawal Symptoms" refer to two types of symptoms; the first is stress reaction, when the body is deprived of something it has become accustomed to, it responds with danger signals, as if something is wrong. The second type of withdrawal symptom is a rebound or backlash reaction. The individual experiences symptoms that are the exact opposite of those caused by the addictive behavior itself.
"Self-Deception" One of the most significant hallmarks of addiction is the exquisite inventiveness that the mind can demonstrate in order to perpetuate addictive behaviors. These tricks of mind include denial, rationalization, displacement, and every other defense mechanism that psychoanalysis has identified, and then some.
"Loss of Willpower" One part of the will sincerely wants to be free while another part wants to continue the addiction. The second part generally proves stronger and so resolutions involving "will power" fail, time and again.
"Distortion of Attention" Addiction and its associated mind tricks inevitably kidnap and distort our attention, profoundly hindering our capacity for love.
__________________________________________________ ____________

TakingCharge999

Thank you all for your helpful responses, I hope I have not offended anyone.

I have let go of this person... almost a year ago. (At least in physical reality, not yet in my mind/heart). I am not going back, but I thought I'd be able to find more compassion if I knew deep down he knows what happened.

I guess its ridiculous to expect him to "own his side" or "feel bad" when he did not while we were together.

The above observation is right in that F&F often believe the other person moved on and erased his memory altogether. I work with him and he has put on a great show, even bringing the partner to the office... coworkers told me they found it of very poor taste.

Difficult to move on when I am constantly reminded of how he has lived this whole year while I have spent it mourning.

Anyway its probably best to mourn and heal than to live in his fantasy world.

Thank you and I hope you win over your own struggles, I know its not easy, its a daily effort...

Zencat

The truth reviled to me wile I was in active addiction was a mess of distortions. I could rationalize anything that took away fault doing on my part and turn it around on others so as to blame them. Active addiction is like that. It will take control of a person and alter ones perceptions beyond reality into delusion.