Depression/weird depersonalisation in early recovery?
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London UK
Posts: 59
Depression/weird depersonalisation in early recovery?
Hi all,
I've been in and out of AA for about 5 years but just recently have been very much in (finally!) - got a sponsor, doing service, generally very happy with the program and sobriety.
That's been for the last 3 months or so. I've had a couple of brief relapses but I think they've been useful as much as anything - "go out and drink like a gentleman...may be worth a bad case of the jitters" - well it has been for me. It's confirmed my alcoholism more than ever.
My last drink was nearly a week ago, and it was at the end of a bad 3-day very heavy drinking relapse. Normally when I sober up and go to meetings I feel good - physically, mentally, etc. This week has been very strange though. I'm not sleeping (like really badly not sleeping), I'm having semi-paranoid thoughts (nothing major, just my thinking tends that way); I feel like I did on the two occasions in the past when I had moderate depression basically; except there's no trigger. I normally expect to feel GOOD in recovery; this time I really don't. I don't feel myself.
I don't feel it's threatening my recovery (if anything I feel further from a drink because of it) but I was wondering if this could be PAWS. The thing is, I've never really felt like this when sobering up before; like I say I normally feel good, and at my best in the last 3 months I've felt a real cloud-nine glow, starting to get the HP turning-it-over thing. Depression has been a long way from my mind (I've been unhappy about the relapses, sure, but this sort of physical depression just hasn't been an issue).
At its worse I feel anxious, really unhappy and as though recovery simply isn't going to help (although, like I say, I'm not nearer a drink as a result so at least I don't have that to worry about).
Wondering what people's thoughts and experiences are that may be comparable. Thanks in advance!
I've been in and out of AA for about 5 years but just recently have been very much in (finally!) - got a sponsor, doing service, generally very happy with the program and sobriety.
That's been for the last 3 months or so. I've had a couple of brief relapses but I think they've been useful as much as anything - "go out and drink like a gentleman...may be worth a bad case of the jitters" - well it has been for me. It's confirmed my alcoholism more than ever.
My last drink was nearly a week ago, and it was at the end of a bad 3-day very heavy drinking relapse. Normally when I sober up and go to meetings I feel good - physically, mentally, etc. This week has been very strange though. I'm not sleeping (like really badly not sleeping), I'm having semi-paranoid thoughts (nothing major, just my thinking tends that way); I feel like I did on the two occasions in the past when I had moderate depression basically; except there's no trigger. I normally expect to feel GOOD in recovery; this time I really don't. I don't feel myself.
I don't feel it's threatening my recovery (if anything I feel further from a drink because of it) but I was wondering if this could be PAWS. The thing is, I've never really felt like this when sobering up before; like I say I normally feel good, and at my best in the last 3 months I've felt a real cloud-nine glow, starting to get the HP turning-it-over thing. Depression has been a long way from my mind (I've been unhappy about the relapses, sure, but this sort of physical depression just hasn't been an issue).
At its worse I feel anxious, really unhappy and as though recovery simply isn't going to help (although, like I say, I'm not nearer a drink as a result so at least I don't have that to worry about).
Wondering what people's thoughts and experiences are that may be comparable. Thanks in advance!
Normally when I sober up and go to meetings I feel good - physically, mentally, etc. This week has been very strange though. I'm not sleeping (like really badly not sleeping), I'm having semi-paranoid thoughts (nothing major, just my thinking tends that way); I feel like I did on the two occasions in the past when I had moderate depression basically; except there's no trigger. I normally expect to feel GOOD in recovery; this time I really don't. I don't feel myself.
I have had 2 episodes of major depression, the first built steadily over five years until I reached a breaking point [suicide attempt]. The next built over 9 months to the same result.
Each time, there were many points at which I knew I was in trouble, that I wasn't myself, and that I needed help because things weren't going to magically resolve themselves. Help doesn't have to mean taking a pill (though my antidepressant has saved my life). There are a lot of people (everyone?) in recovery who go through these low points; maybe all you need is to meet one so you can help each other out of your emotional ruts. As an avid hiker and runner, I know vigorous exercise is one of the best natural highs there are. I believe it was the job that required me to hike 10-15 miles almost daily for 2 years, paired with a stepped-up nutrition intake, that made me feel the best I had ever felt in my life. I totally understood contentedness for a while there.
My depressive episodes didn't have a singular trigger, either. There were a combination of factors. I refer to them collectively as "disillusionment with life itself." The second time, I was in the midst of my longest period of sobriety yet (5 months), and my most dedicated AA attempt ever. I was all the way up to step five!
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It has been my experience with my own Alcoholism that relapses got progressively shorter, fewer, and farther between but exponentially worse each time. The Chemical Dependency Detox symptoms got much worse and lasted longer (up to four days).
While Alcohol and Depression/Anxiety are firmly linked, they can also be caused by non-Alcohol related sources (Bi-polar, Lost Job, ect.). You may want to see a Doctor to treat the Depression as a separate entity from the Alcohol. One thing for sure though, a drinking relapse will make the Depression and Anxiety worse. Drinking to relieve Depression is like Smoking Cigarettes to cure Lung Cancer.
While Alcohol and Depression/Anxiety are firmly linked, they can also be caused by non-Alcohol related sources (Bi-polar, Lost Job, ect.). You may want to see a Doctor to treat the Depression as a separate entity from the Alcohol. One thing for sure though, a drinking relapse will make the Depression and Anxiety worse. Drinking to relieve Depression is like Smoking Cigarettes to cure Lung Cancer.
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"I normally expect to feel GOOD in recovery; this time I really don't. I don't feel myself."
"My last drink was nearly a week ago, and it was at the end of a bad 3-day very heavy drinking relapse."
You're in recovery?
No offense, lol, but one week sober after an admittedly wicked 3 day bender is not recovery.
Just my opinion... it will continue getting worse and worse with each 'choose to drink episode'... a relapse is nothing more than a conscious choice to drink... a choice only YOU can make.
Get into AA fully and stay there a while.
"My last drink was nearly a week ago, and it was at the end of a bad 3-day very heavy drinking relapse."
You're in recovery?
No offense, lol, but one week sober after an admittedly wicked 3 day bender is not recovery.
Just my opinion... it will continue getting worse and worse with each 'choose to drink episode'... a relapse is nothing more than a conscious choice to drink... a choice only YOU can make.
Get into AA fully and stay there a while.
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 146
I'm nearly a month sober, and had bad anxiety up to about a week. I didn't really start to clear up on the whole till about 2 weeks. Now approaching 4 weeks, I'm still noticing improvements. I've heard of people saying they noticed improvements even up to a year or so.
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London UK
Posts: 59
Thanks for all your thoughts. It's actually cleared up a bit today but I've thought a lot about what you said in particular thirtybubba. I've been a bit shaken by this.
Tommyk: no offense to you either but I've heard many, many AAers mention "relapses in early recovery". After how many weeks/months do I qualify as "in recovery" according to you? I'm just trying to keep it in the day like everyone else, and the idea my relapses were choices to drink is like saying I chose to be an alcoholic, and ignores the big book's comment that we have "no mental defence against the first drink" IMO. I realise you're just trying to help but believe me, I don't need to be told how much I need AA right now.
Tommyk: no offense to you either but I've heard many, many AAers mention "relapses in early recovery". After how many weeks/months do I qualify as "in recovery" according to you? I'm just trying to keep it in the day like everyone else, and the idea my relapses were choices to drink is like saying I chose to be an alcoholic, and ignores the big book's comment that we have "no mental defence against the first drink" IMO. I realise you're just trying to help but believe me, I don't need to be told how much I need AA right now.
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No problem tommy79... but do me a favor:
If I ever make a post like your first one, PLEASE tell me that relapse is a choice, and PLEASE tell me how much I need AA... okay?
I won't want to hear either one, but the more I'm told, the more I will realize it is true.
Keep coming back. Keep doing whatever it takes.
If I ever make a post like your first one, PLEASE tell me that relapse is a choice, and PLEASE tell me how much I need AA... okay?
I won't want to hear either one, but the more I'm told, the more I will realize it is true.
Keep coming back. Keep doing whatever it takes.
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Posts: 59
I hear you tommyk. Like I say, I realise you're trying to help and I'm not really in any position to be getting annoyed with anyone around here so I apologise.
I'm still feeling a bit weird but spoke to my sponsor yesterday and I'm feeling good about the program. Thanks again to everyone.
I'm still feeling a bit weird but spoke to my sponsor yesterday and I'm feeling good about the program. Thanks again to everyone.
Remember : Your disease is patient. It will wait. It's only purpose is to destroy you.
There are many different ways our alcoholism traps us into giving up and perhaps what you're experiencing is precisely that - the cunning baffling nature of alcoholism.
Suffice to say exercise and a good anti depressant saved me in the early days.
Your friend
Cathy31
x
the idea my relapses were choices to drink is like saying I chose to be an alcoholic, and ignores the big book's comment that we have "no mental defence against the first drink" IMO. I realise you're just trying to help but believe me, I don't need to be told how much I need AA right now.
Yes, relapse is most definitely a choice
Yes, we get to a point where we have NO adequate defence against the first drink IF we are slack in our program of recovery (rarely have we seen a person fail...) And that for me is the essential choice - work the program you won't relapse. Don't work the program you will.
BTW, I know you've been trying extra hard AND you've got some good results, but it's amazing how alike we all really are when it comes to alcoholism...and its solution...
Good luck!!!
cathy31
x
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London UK
Posts: 59
Yes, relapse is most definitely a choice
Yes, we get to a point where we have NO adequate defence against the first drink IF we are slack in our program of recovery (rarely have we seen a person fail...) And that for me is the essential choice - work the program you won't relapse. Don't work the program you will.
Yes, we get to a point where we have NO adequate defence against the first drink IF we are slack in our program of recovery (rarely have we seen a person fail...) And that for me is the essential choice - work the program you won't relapse. Don't work the program you will.
Yes relapse may be a choice once you're properly working the program. But I haven't even done step 1 yet! I'm having this debate with my sponsor at the moment. If I haven't done step 1 I don't think I've even really begun (which I guess goes with tommyk's point above); that's WHY I relapse IMO. But my sponsor says I need more continuous sobriety. Bit of a catch-22, non?
When I say "no mental defence" I'm thinking of this part of the Big Book:
"we shall describe some of the mental states that precede a relapse into drinking, for obviously this is the crux of the problem".
"The crux of the problem" - that means "no mental defence" is, according to the Big Book, the most important factor an alcoholic cannot overcome (as opposed to "normal men"). It goes on to describe the guy who puts whisky in his milk, and the guy who thinks he can just have a couple of cocktails; both of them are compared to the jaywalker running back into the road. Bill W himself has the same problem - "self-knowledge" isn't the answer.
That's me - I'm at that stage. I really, really, really don't want to drink, most of the time I don't, but somehow I seem to end up doing so sometimes (and if that wasn't the case, I wouldn't have a problem and wouldn't need AA). How can that be a "choice" when I have "no mental defence"?
AFTER I've started stepwork, AFTER I've done step 1 and started, then I could agree with you (in relation to me). But until I do, I think I'm just like the whisky-in-the-milk guy. Which brings me back to my sponsor...I'm ready to admit powerlessness, I'm ready to admit unmanageability...but supposedly I need more continuous sobriety? Why?!
From your friend Tom!
Every time you relapse you dig the hole that you are in a little deeper and thus it gets a little harder to climb out of it.
Tommy
What's holding you back from moving on from Step 1.
What are you holding back, what denial is there that you're still at the point where you go out and drink because (am I right?) You think that THIS time it will be different!
Admit you would never drink if you knew with UTTER certainty that you were POWERLESS over alcohol and it WAS going to be a disaster.
I carried on drinking because I would not ACCEPT that I was powerless over alcohol. Every time I drank it had the POTENTIAL to turn into something nasty - and near the end it was 80% of the time.
Once you have accepted (and some say we only accept once we've been HURT enough but Bill W clearly says we can be high bottom drunks, it's just rare) that you are an alcoholic and you are powerless over alcohol you will be able to move on from step 1.
Then you get to the rest of the steps and somewhere along the line the desire to drink is removed entirely and then we're no longer like the whiskey and milk guy.
So....I don't get what your sponsor says about 'time' but I do get that you have not yet fully surrendered to your powerlessness over alcohol - that's why you keep trying to tame it yes? I did that for years.
Correct me if I'm wrong?
Much love
cathy31
x
accepting tha
What's holding you back from moving on from Step 1.
What are you holding back, what denial is there that you're still at the point where you go out and drink because (am I right?) You think that THIS time it will be different!
Admit you would never drink if you knew with UTTER certainty that you were POWERLESS over alcohol and it WAS going to be a disaster.
I carried on drinking because I would not ACCEPT that I was powerless over alcohol. Every time I drank it had the POTENTIAL to turn into something nasty - and near the end it was 80% of the time.
Once you have accepted (and some say we only accept once we've been HURT enough but Bill W clearly says we can be high bottom drunks, it's just rare) that you are an alcoholic and you are powerless over alcohol you will be able to move on from step 1.
Then you get to the rest of the steps and somewhere along the line the desire to drink is removed entirely and then we're no longer like the whiskey and milk guy.
So....I don't get what your sponsor says about 'time' but I do get that you have not yet fully surrendered to your powerlessness over alcohol - that's why you keep trying to tame it yes? I did that for years.
Correct me if I'm wrong?
Much love
cathy31
x
accepting tha
this is the first time and hopefully the last time i had really tried
i found it easy at first
then major despair and depression set in
i read every ones post and it seemed the norm
now 70/80 days down the road i feel great just stay with it and you will feel better i promise
i found it easy at first
then major despair and depression set in
i read every ones post and it seemed the norm
now 70/80 days down the road i feel great just stay with it and you will feel better i promise
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