Boleo

"We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. "

- All Big Book quotes from the 4th Edition -

debs

But HOW???

How do we GET to that point?

Going to meetings?

Damnit I so want to be there.

Neutrality?

Sounds like bliss.

Zencat

I've heard that voice. Addiction hijacked my brain and through that hijacking my addiction had a voice that spoke through my thought process and behavior centers. Without a continuing addiction treatment that voice can grow strong again and look for an opportunity to convince me that drugging is a good option.

matt88

Yes and no. I think they sympathize and understand to a certain degree, but often it appears to us a simple view - but not an incorrect one. Like most will think, just stop drinking, that's it - problem solved, end of story. Which is of course true for the most part, but to us appears simple. We are more concerned with the details as we are involved with it. Other alkies will be able to relate to more of the details and intricacies involved.

Sometimes an outside view is helpful, because it can be more objective, as our experience with alcoholism is clouded by subjectivity. just my 2 coppers.

keithj

Debs,

Those are the 10th Step promises. Which means you get them as the result of taking steps 1-10 of AA's program of recovery. Meetings are almost always a part of that process, but are not the process itself. You get those 10th step promises as a reality in your life by taking the steps.

It's proven true for me and many others. I remember being stunned when that paragraph actually resonated with me for the first time. It's how I knew I had completed step 10. When those words were true in my own life. And today I go anywhere and do anything I want without worry. Alcohol is neutral. It holds no attraction or longing.

Just a note. Boleo misquoted slightly. Last sentence should be 'That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.' There is always an 'if/then' part to any Big Book promises. You do this, you get that sort of thing.

Boleo

The first 100 times that I read the 10th step promise I thought to myself:

"Ya - right! Maybe after 50 years of sobriety and even then about 5 years after I could levitate and about 2 years after I could walk on water!"

After 4 months of living on a rehab farm I was kicked out and living on the streets. For the first time in my adult life I had no Plan B's left. I could not think of a single nook & cranny to look in. My life was completely unmanageable.

My first thought was "may as well get drunk". My second thought was "what good will that do". For the first time since I had discovered the comfort of alcohol, I was comfortable in my own skin without it and had no desire to drink.

I had surrendered my self-reliance and felt released from care, boredom and worry even though I had more real-life problems than ever before.

Philly

Thanks for the post. Another confirmation that I am "whatever". I don't know if I understand the disease/allergy/problem but I understood every word you were saying. It was very well said. My husband has been a drinker his whole life. Just about every sign of alcoholism. In a few short years I surpassed him. Whether it was a body that had yet to abuse alcohol don't know. I know he could not drink like I could. His body would not allow it. This is a man who has blacked out for years. He does not understand it. He still does not see why I cannot have a glass of white wine. Who the hell wants "a" glass of wine. Again thanks, this is why I love this site

McGowdog

Nice post LMM.

Looking back at my drinking, I don't even understand it. I don't understand my utter inability to "drink like a gentleman" or control my intake and just enjoy myself and last through the night with my consciousness intact. My utter disregard to the consequences of the last time to just reach for that next drink with absolutely no fear, no reservation... sometimes even with total excitement that it's going to be different this time.

I'm quite sure than non-alcoholics don't get us in two ways; the ones who would buy in to our bs and have anything to do with us in the first place... aka those who think they can help or rescue us, and those who blatantly sit back and say it's a choice for us. I don't mean to get into semantics here. I believe this. I don't want to steer the thread, but I think we sometimes argue over stupid semantics (not in this thread, but ones from the past).

With the path of recovery that I operate on, A.A., we've "lost the power of choice." I do, however, believe that when most of us drink, we do so willfully. Our troubles are of our own making. They arise out of self, out of us. But within us is also the Solution. So with the proper direction of our will and our life, we can recover and stay that way. That's the only way I know from practical experience.

So from my understanding, the argument is over choice vs will. When our will is set in motion, there's no choice... one way (to drink) or the other (to not drink).

I saw a funny bumper sticker yesterday; Don't believe everything you think. I wish I had the power to do that.

Boleo

Student: What part of human thinking is delusional?

Nisargadatta Maharaj: 100%

sfgirl

While I totally get non-addicts not understanding, I think me and the OP might have the same sister , I don't think it is true that a non-addict can't not understand. I have been taking some classes on addiction. My first teacher was not an alcoholic but a therapist whose brother had died of severe alcoholism. He had worked in chemical dependency for 30 years. He probably knew it better than me. I only really know my own experience and ultimately alcoholism and addiction rears its head in so many ways other than my own personal experience. Everyone has their own unique experience. I think if someone has a willingness to really listen and the addict has an equal willingness to share that a certain understanding can come about. Empathy can be very powerful. Unfortunately not everyone chooses to use it.

I have been watching that show Obsessed on A&E and while I have never had OCD my experiences with addiction and panic make me pretty able to imagine what it would be like. Certainly someone with the same issues would be able to create a more instant bond but I think that if you discount everyone who doesn't share your disease you limit yourself. But there has to be a willingness.

rhnorment

Not only can non-alcoholics not understand alcoholics (or addicts in general), I have trouble understanding non-alcoholics.

I went on a cruise with my family a few weeks ago and my wife (who is a normal drinker) ordered a glass of wine. I am confident in my sobriety, and do not care of people drink around me. In fact, I prefer people not change their behavior because I am present.

But I could not for the life of me understand how she could order just one glass of wine and not even finish it over the course of an hour. What's the point?

If I have just one beer, my craving for alcohol becomes so overwhelming that I will lie, cheat, and steal from family just to get that next drink. Then the next, the next, and so on.

We are truly unique minds. Or maybe they are. :-)

debs

It never ceases to amaze me how we (alcoholics) all think precisely, identically alike.

I so know what you mean here. It's baffling to watch someone order 'A' drink... and not even finish it- totally mind boggling.

howard

good question-course not

and y should they

cool question tho

kurtrambis

The only thing I have in common with other alcoholics is a problem with alcohol and even then I don't understand other alcoholics that say they
get depressed when they drink (drink had the opposite effect on me)
they don't get hangovers or withdrawals
they get violent
that being very happy making them vulnerable to relapse
they hated drinking (I hated the fact that I loved drinking but I loved drinking that was the whole problem)

I also see many similarities between me and people who don't class themselves as alcoholics. For example I know a lot of people who when going out at weekend have difficulty in controlling how much they drink, infact weekend binging in the UK is a common problem these days but that's another topic.

I think looking for similarities helps strengthen the bond, the community spirit in self help groups like AA. But I think its often overdone, I often hear in meetings alkies this, alkies that, but normal people do have the same experiences, feelings etc. to.

I think in general the them and us attitude is unhealthy it helps support the idea of alcoholism that we are all suffering from the same problem therefore there is a common solution. I remember phoning I friend in AA explaining that I felt depressed (proper depression lasting more than a few days and getting progressively worse) and wanted to drink, she implied, as a result of her own experience when drinking, that I was lying and using it as an excuse.

So I disagree it doesn't necessarily take one alcoholic to help another.

Rad44

No they don't understand and never will and will always pizz me off! My Wife and Daughter were recently out of town for an entire week leaving me home alone. I am a Home Alone Drunk. My last 5 relapses have been preceeded by this very same set of circumstances. I pulled out all of the stops to make it work this time and get through this Crucible. Thearapy both Group and Individual, AA, Naltrexone, SR, everything.

Well I finally made it. It was a HUGE accomplishment in my entire life. Do you know what my Wife of 25 years said? "Did you drink while I was gone" me "No, not a drop", "Ok good" (yawn)......That's it?? That's all I get? When I tell other Alcoholics this I get a Standing Ovation. "Thats Fantastic", "Great work, that must have been so difficult", "We're so proud of you".

The difference is knowing just how difficult it is to persevere over your worst, most vulnerable trigger like Alcoholics do. My normal drinker Wife is just like "yeah, what's the big deal?". Arrrrrgggghhhh!

debs

I'm an at-home-alone-drunk as well....

And I'll join in on the standing ovation for your success...

What an awesome accomplishment. Never, ever underestimate how awesome that is.

But don't be too hard on your wife.

She can't understand how we are.

She can't understand it anymore than we can understand or fathom how life would be without the addiction.

Be proud of her for sticking with you through the hard times.

I know I'm beyond grateful that my loved ones haven't yet given up on me.

Thanks for your post. I understand... completely.

debs

I'll speak for myself here....

But ...

even if it doesn't 'necessarily' take one alcoholic to help another....

I'm so thankful to have other people who truly understand me.

It profoundly comforts me... however bad that is... to know I'm not alone.

FightingIrish

Wah?

(See? We don't always understand each other ;-) )

LosingmyMisery

I agree. I couldn't understand it myself. Each morning waking up and thinking, why, why did I do it again? It was like freaking ground hog day, every day. My actions were so incredibly stupid, but seemed impossible to stop.

The understanding part, I was married to an alcoholic. My drinking had not progressed yet. I could not understand how he could go straight from work to the bar and close it down. He had a wife and children waiting at home and it felt as if the drunk stranger sitting at the bar stool, next to him, was more important than his family. I could never get that and I grew major resentments over it. We divorced after many years and as funny as life is, I got to suffer the same as he and now understand how family and responsibilities easily take a back seat. It saddens me to think back, but I have to move forward and not dwell on what used to be.

I'm well educated on the many aspects of alcoholism because I have experienced it from different perspectives. I know the frustrations from both ends and a few more. I also have family members who are alcoholic. I consider the duel points of view a blessing in disguise because knowledge is the key to life even though the lesson may be painful. I guess it is only fair that I understand the hurt I caused others. I was hurt, then switched roles hurting others. Karma.

My friends were very supportive of me. In fact, I feel very blessed to have any friends left. They stood by me in my darkest days and cared and supported me unconditionally. My family did as well, but like I mentioned, my sister was very angry and did not understand why I just didn't quit. She was fed up so it was time for me to quit. I agreed, but getting there was the hard part.

I finally moved toward help and a program. The program got me sober and has changed my life. It taught me everything I needed to know to find sobriety and peace of mind. However, my family has no concept the work and depth it takes to get to where I am today. The do not understand the cleaning out of the cobwebs, letting go of old fears and resentments. I would say that they are grateful I am sober, they are proud of me, but are clueless of the process and honestly, take it for granted.

I let it go. It isn't worth trying to explain. Again, it just is and the fact that I have made it is a good thing. Every family event we have alcohol is involved. In fact, I had less than 30 days of sobriety when I went on a family event out of town where the booze was bountiful. I was sleeping in the living room a few short feet away from the kitchen which was filled with beer and wine. That is a disaster waiting to happen for an alcoholic. They just didn't know. The thing that saved me was, I didn't want to drink. I wanted to stay sober so I silenced the voice. It was very strange to know the temptation was there and I was capable of overcoming it early on in sobriety. I was just ready to stop the madness and was scared to death of the consequences of sneaking a drink.

If non alcoholics can’t understand us, I guess that is to be expected. I can deal with that, however, it can be very frustrating. I believe we are still expected to act and behave logical, when we all know, that isn’t going to happen, not when drinking. I have found my logical thinking again now sober. Thank goodness. Smart people do stupid things. I know that I seldom regret my actions these days. It helps to have a sound mind.

Another aspect is that people view alcoholic as very weak, no will power. We all know that this is not about self-will. An alcoholic who has overcome alcoholism is a very strong person. It is a huge endeavor of getting to the point of leaving our illness behind and choosing to get well. It is a shame that many don’t recognize that. I’m okay with that, though, I know in my heart. When I feel the feeling of pride, gratitude and humility, I know that all of my suffering was worth it and I cherish the incredible strength gained through my journey. I once thought I was hopeless. Today, I know I can face anything and overcome any obstacle sober.

I asked the question because a recent thread got me to thinking. The truth of the matter is, no one has to understand me. When sober, I know in my heart when I am doing the right thing, when I am in balance and at peace. As long as I strive to move forward and continue to grow, it just feels right. In time, people will judge me for the person I am today, not the person I used to be. That is all I can hope for when it comes to the past.

Thanks for the thoughts and responses.

debs

Indeed.