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I have a serious question, please answer folks!

Old 08-02-2009, 09:23 AM
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hb3
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I have a serious question, please answer folks!

I have just stumbled across this site and it seems to be an interesting one with very resourceful people in membership. Therefore I deem you people worthy of giving advice one can appreciate and trust.

Of course, my question is alcohol related. I don't have the $$$ to seek professional opinion or help, but I figure who better to answer this question but those who have also dealt with it.

I want to know if I'm an alcoholic. Obviously, I am a problem drinker, since I'm here and asking this question, but being a problem drinker is an issue far less dangerous than being an alcoholic.


Here is a summary of what I've gone through:

I come from an Eastern European country, where alcoholism is a big part of culture and "manliness", and where there's a great lack of understanding and knowledge of it. So, there is lots of alcoholics around to give very bad examples from early age and lots of alcohol glorofication. By the age of 14-15 I felt as if drinking was not only just not bad, but in fact a very good thing that the "real" people do. I have had some alcoholism in family and extended family, namely my father, whom died of other causes when I was pretty much too young to know him, so I guess he can't be used as one of the examples. As for rest of alcoholism in extended family, I did not have much contact with them and wasn't around to witness it and have it serve as an example, but I find it important that I mention that yes I have got some of those alcoholic genes. I have drank alcohol when I was very young on a few occasions. I did not however engage into drinking until I was an "adult".

I moved to USA in my mid teens and by late teens, at the age of 19 I would say, I started going out and drinking. At first, for about 1-2 yrs, I had a limit of 4 drinks, some magic figure I had come up with. They were plenty and served the purpose. I would go out on weekends and get that euphoria off of those drinks. I can't exactly remember details of things and times, as I did quite a lot of partying, so it's a bit blurry, but at some point, probably late 20, I started drinking more. Once I got my ID and could do it legally and go out and party anywhere, then it really took off. I started drinking 2-3 times a week (note, always socially), and my tolerance had raised much. However, I was in great shape, I worked, I went to school, I had control. Yes, I drank at levels that are considered alcoholic, but I felt good and I had control over my mind.

I also started smoking marijuana at some point, around the age of 22 I would say. I smoked it some when I was 18-19 and stopped. However, in my 2nd stint smoking it, I was in a different mindset and I felt differently so it took a hold.

I had entered into a 3 yr relationship with a girl, from age 21-24. It was a very emotionally taxing relationship. It was hell, please don't make me go into details, you probably don't want to hear.. but it was just hell with the dragged out breakup and everything else. So I would eyeball to say that I started heavy drinking somewhere in the midst of it.. at the age of 23,5.. which would put my total abusive drinking tally at about 2-2,5 yrs.

Now you see, with my progression in drinking and in tolerance already, and then getting into an emotional mess and then starting to smoke weed, it all converged at the same time. I developed a severe depression from the combination of the breakup and smoking pot. I became more disinterested, distant, irritable, gloomy. And alcohol was that trustworthy friend I ran to every time I needed one. I would even drink while driving sometimes (I mean, having a can between my legs).

Interestingly enough, alcohol made me feel better (heh, now we're getting somewhere, eh!?). So my drinking went from a "controlled abuse" to a full blown abuse. I could drink 5-6 times a week. Things went ok though. I worked, I went to school, you know.. I attributed my problems to the heartbreak. However, with time, I felt better over that and I could analyze myself and see it, and yet I felt more depressed. Ever the scientist and philosopher, I figured what I was going through was not normal. I had messed up in school, I was constantly broke, I didn't care about things I cared about, I was very disinterested in everything, and I felt like sh*t. I never considered suicide, but I would think that people who commit suicide would go through same stages I would go through, and that my condition is serious.

This time I attributed most of my pains to marijuana. I knew of its depressive properties. Mind you, I was some late 24 yrs of age at this point. At this point, I would have drank abusively for about 3,5 yrs. It's a progression surely. I had graduated to drinking shots with beers to get that euphoric feeling, cuz.. who can get drunk off beer, eh? :-P I could literally drink as much as anyone. I also drank beers at home. I wouldn't drink at home to point of intoxication really, but I liked having them. Though, to give a point of perspective, it wasn't rare for me to go on my binge and to drink bah.. who knows.. 12 beers, 7-8 shots? At this point in time, I just couldn't be inside the house, I was always missing out on something, family was "not understanding", boss was an a-hole, etc etc etc. I only felt good when I would "get away from it all".

This was the very low point for me. I was absolutely messing up or had messed up in every area of my life. So, as I mentioned, I quit smoking marijuana blaming it for my depression. To be honest, after a couple of months i started feeling better mentally... but what happened was, I didn't stop drinking less, I started drinking even more.

At some point between age 25 and 25,5 I had seriously had it with feeling so bad all the time. I had been so depressed, guilty, insecure, you name it, for such a long time, that I practically gave up. I was tired of alcohol controlling my life. I was tired of hangovers, I finally saw alcohol had taken a hold of me, and I was into it serious. I had finally realized the seriousness of my relationship with alcohol. That's when the healing process started. I literally decided, I will not allow all these thoughts in my head to pain me anymore. Little did I know, that was the exact solution to the problem. I had studied a considerable amount of philosophy in my life, enough to have a favorite - Eastern philosophy. So I figured at this time it would come in handy to get into it more seriously. I have found from such studies that the exact thing and point where I decided I simply will refuse such my mind to pain me anymore, is exactly what the key to happiness is. We're very unhappy in life because our own thoughts constantly play tricks on us. Soon after putting a stop to my madness, I had finally been able to control my alcohol intake. In fact, I didn't like it much anymore. So, my total tally of drinking behavior that could be considered abusive, would be about 5 yrs. I had seen and noticed that I had a problem with it and am smart enough to know what happens but also to value my life, health, success, future.

Here I am, some 9-12 months removed from drinking heavily. I will still go out with people sometimes and drink, but now I experience it differently, I don't like it as much. I truly, honestly don't enjoy it much anymore. I am capable of controlling it, but also capable of getting drunk, which I have done here and there. My tolerance right now is far less than it was while I used to drink. I would say, my tolerance now is at about 40-50% of what it used to be. I am hardly capable of downing a shot of whiskey/tequila and I avoid them. If forced (I know it sounds stupid, I'm sorry) to take one, I opt for something not so liquory. I don't enjoy the old drinking buddies much either. I have nearly completely cut ties with everybody I knew back then. I feel as if I don't need anybody. I feel good too, it's not that lonely - I don't need anybody I want to be alone - no, it's that fulfilled, I am feeling perfectly fine and most people I have called friends in past are losers, I can get no stimulation from them. I would rather stay home, read a book, play a video game, or whatnot, than to spend time out with people whom I used to party it up all the time.


If you followed the entire story closely:

- I grew up in a society where alcohol is glorified and its dangers are nullified... so when I hit young adulthood, and started engaging into problematic drinking behavior, I didn't understand it was problematic at all

- I had felt terrible for 2-3 yrs due to several factors including alcohol

- I engaged into 5 yrs of abusive drinking (going by book of no binging more than 4 at once), which would be comprised of about 1 yr of moderately going over (like most people just turning 21 do), 2 yrs of abusive, and 2 yrs of very abusive.

- As soon as I stopped feeling depressed, I also changed my behavior and got my drinking under control

- I have never experienced a blackout (I have seen it associated with alcoholic drinkers)

- I have messed up in school and gotten a DUI.. although, the school thing can be attributed as much to marijuana as it can to alcohol.. however for the sake of being objective, marijuana use is also another red flag - I have smoked marijuana for about 1-1,5 yrs, seen the negative effects and quit. I quit marijuana 1-1,5 yrs before getting my drinking under control (I think it shows ability to correct bad behavior once I recognize it)

- I first considered myself a problem drinker, possibly 3 yrs into my "career", up until that point I didn't ever think of it as such and figured I was simply doing what everybody is and in a "stage"

So, here I am today, about to restart school in a month, feeling more calm and collected than ever in my life. However, I wonder, because I still do drink sometimes.. and I can't tell you the frequency of it since I don't either keep track of it, nor is it very frequent, let's just say I drink when I'm in situations where people are drinking. I feel as if that part of my life is over. I feel and KNOW deep within my being that I will never repeat such behavior. I truly look forward to the future. Yet, when I drink, I still drink too much. Which to me tells me that there's still that worm dragging through the mud. I am, however, a very spiritual person at this stage, thanks to my deep interest and love for eastern philosophy (buddhism, taoism) and with this new spirituality I have understood my past depressions and seen the transparency of terrible feelings which lead people to drink and eventually to become alcoholics. I feel confident!

What do you good folks think? I appreciate all responses, please don't be shy. Why do I care, if I'm so confident, why do I need you answers? I fully understand how dangerous alcoholism is, but there just seems to be no way of gauging if you're alcoholic or not. I look up literature it states vague, broad, warning statements. I spoke to the alcoholic treatment people (mandatory treatment for DUI), they told me that there's a point where one becomes alcoholic and can't go back, but a simply abusive drinker can in fact reverse the trend and go back to being a social drinker. I hope I am that person. They couldn't however tell me anything solid. What do you folks, who have gone through it, and who have probably witnessed others go through it, what do you think of my situation? I am not asking you this in hopes you'll tell me, "ahh you're fine!", so I can go and get wasted. I am asking you because I am interested in learning more about myself and would really like to know at how much danger I am in, as I've hopefully got many more years to live, and alcoholism will stalk you. I have just clicked on someone's link and read about a person who gave up drinking at 30, had a great career and all, retired at 55 and started drinking and completely broke down from drinking. This story perfectly embodies why I am seeking more knowledge and answers. How many years does one usually drink very abusively before they are alcoholics? How deep to they fall? What kind of mental/physical degradation do they go through? Etc? It seems that one can't find any reliable ways of comparing himself to others. I wish literature would focus on this side of it more to hit closer to home. For example: literature will say don't drink more than 20 a week, or you're abusing. An abuser will think,"well, hell, EVERYBODY drinks more than 20, this literature is wrong, I'm just like everybody else!".

Thank you all in advance!

p.s.I am sorry I made it so long, but I personally don't like it when people write a 3 liner and then ask you for a profound opinion, it makes no sense.
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Old 08-02-2009, 09:42 AM
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There are a few "definitions" of alcoholism floating around, generally speaking a good rule of thumb just from my experience is "normal drinkers" don't wonder if they are alcoholics, as in if you are wondering if you have a problem with alcohol you usually do. Frequently in my experience "cross addiction" takes place as well, switching from Pot to Alcohol or vice versa, after a few years it gets bad enough to be quite obvious, but in the early stages of my alcoholism I smoked a lot of pot and drank less, as the years went by the pot disappeared as the liquor took over.

one is "If you are unable to quit for a year OR once you start drinking you can't always control the amount you drink (example if you go to have two drinks, ten times, and two of those times you end up drunk and didn't mean to)

A description I heard is If drinking alcohol makes you thirsty, as in after you have one you want another one, and the more you drink the thirstier you get and the more you want is a pretty good indication.

I would suggest reading this if you are interested

Big Book Online

Here is a pretty good description from it

AA Big Book - Chapter 3

There are also the Twenty questions from John Hopkins
20 Questions

Are You an Alcoholic? To answer this question, ask yourself the following questions and answer them as honestly as you can.

You do not ever have to show this to anyone, nor should you!

1. Do you lose time from work due to your drinking?

2. Is drinking making your home life unhappy?

3. Do you drink because you are shy with other people?

4. Is drinking affecting your reputation?

5. Have you ever felt remorse after drinking?

6. Have you gotten into financial difficulties as a result of your drinking?

7. Do you turn to lower companions and an inferior environment when drinking?

8. Does your drinking make you careless of your family's welfare?

9. Has your ambition decreased since drinking?

10. Do you crave a drink at a definite time daily?

11. Do you want a drink the next morning?

12. Does drinking cause you to have difficulty in sleeping?

13. Has your efficiency decreased since drinking?

14. Is drinking jeopardizing your job or business?

15. Do you drink to escape from worries or troubles?

16. Do you drink alone?

17. Have you ever had a complete loss of memory as a result of your drinking?

18. Has your physician ever treated you for drinking?

19. Do you drink to build up your self-confidence?

20. Have you ever been in a hospital or institution on account of drinking?

If you have answered YES to any one of the questions, there is a definite warning that you may be an alcoholic.

If you have answered YES to any two, the chances are that you are an alcoholic.

If you have answered YES to three or more, you are definitely an alcoholic.
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Old 08-02-2009, 09:54 AM
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Thx bud.

As for this one:

"normal drinkers" don't wonder if they are alcoholics, as in if you are wondering if you have a problem with alcohol you usually do
I also saw it that way, and was sure I was an alcoholic just hibernating, until I spoke to the treatment people for DUI treatment, and was told by them that abusive behavior for a period of time does not necessarily mean alcoholism and can be brought under control. Which I was very happy about. One disease less to worry about taking my life, you know?
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:06 AM
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I know people who will have a couple of drinks, and then stop when they have had "enough". Sometimes they'll even leave half a drink behind unfinished.

I am not like that. My default is to drink more. I can sometimes stop myself if I really want to or need to, but then I try to arrange things so that I don't want to or need to stop.

I also drink when I don't want to. If I have an important work occasion early the next morning, that does not prevent me from drinking.

The two pertinent facts are:

1. When I drink alcohol, I develop a craving for more alcohol
2. I can't prevent myself from taking the first drink when I want to or need to not drink

For many people it takes a series of unfortunate consequences (DUI, jail, mental institution) before they become willing to ask themselves these simple questions. But the questions can be answered honestly without such consequences.
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:14 AM
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What's the difference if you label yourself a 'problem drinker' or an 'alcoholic'??
The old saying, "a rose by any other name..." comes to mind

In your post you have stated that you in fact have had problems with alcohol in the past, and even now with what you feel is a new sense of perspective towards drinking, you still can't guarantee that you can control your drinking when you decide to socialize. Why flirt with danger? Realistically, you can't trust yourself 100% when it comes to drinking in moderation, can you??
Think about this for a minute: what is so important about drinking that you feel that you want to keep it as a part of your life? You have seen how it has robbed you of many things up to this point, and how much better you are without it... take your history & learn from it...NOW. Don't wait for the years to add up & then look back to see the damage your drinking did to your life.
You seem like a very analytical sort of person... the writing is on the wall my friend... read it... and heed its warning.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but from what I have read of your story you are already questioning the role alcohol plays in your life... I think you already know what you need to do... look deep inside, that's where you will find your answer... not in some book.
All my best to you
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:21 AM
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Welcome to SR and our Alcoholism Forum....

Why is it so important to you to continue to drink
despite your misgivings? Alcohol is a toxic liquid
that damages everyone who drinks....not only alcoholics.

Check out this link please.....

How We Get Addicted - TIME

And....

Alcohol and Brain

Good to see you looking for answers...
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by hb3 View Post
Thx bud.

As for this one:



I also saw it that way, and was sure I was an alcoholic just hibernating, until I spoke to the treatment people for DUI treatment, and was told by them that abusive behavior for a period of time does not necessarily mean alcoholism and can be brought under control. Which I was very happy about. One disease less to worry about taking my life, you know?
How'd you do on the twenty questions?

Drinking alcoholically does not mean one is an alcoholic, but I have to say I got the sense from your initial post you have already made up your mind about whether you are an alcoholic or not, and write although you have had "troubling indications" about your drinking you have come to the conclusion you are not an alcoholic.

The best way to find out is to keep drinking. Try some controlled drinking, Try it more then once. Try to drink and stop abruptly. If you are honest with yourself it will not take you long to get a good knowledge of your condition.

The best test I know is to drink two drinks every day for thirty days. If you are unable to stop a few times, as in you end up drunk a few times that equals "loss of control" which is the benchmark of an alcoholic.
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by FightingIrish View Post
I know people who will have a couple of drinks, and then stop when they have had "enough". Sometimes they'll even leave half a drink behind unfinished.

I am not like that. My default is to drink more. I can sometimes stop myself if I really want to or need to, but then I try to arrange things so that I don't want to or need to stop.

I also drink when I don't want to. If I have an important work occasion early the next morning, that does not prevent me from drinking.

The two pertinent facts are:

1. When I drink alcohol, I develop a craving for more alcohol
2. I can't prevent myself from taking the first drink when I want to or need to not drink

For many people it takes a series of unfortunate consequences (DUI, jail, mental institution) before they become willing to ask themselves these simple questions. But the questions can be answered honestly without such consequences.
Tell me, would there be anything in this:

At home I've been known to drink a 2 beers for 10 hours (literally). Whilst out and about I would drink 2 beers in 30-40 mins depending on situation. Would situation have any effect on an alcoholic's habit in drinking? Or will his craving be the same across the board?
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by hb3 View Post
Tell me, would there be anything in this:

At home I've been known to drink a 2 beers for 10 hours (literally). Whilst out and about I would drink 2 beers in 30-40 mins depending on situation. Would situation have any effect on an alcoholic's habit in drinking? Or will his craving be the same across the board?
For me the craving was a variable

If I drank ten times, eight of those times I would have my two beers, two of those times I would drink more then I planned which = loss of control.
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Angel1 View Post
What's the difference if you label yourself a 'problem drinker' or an 'alcoholic'??
The old saying, "a rose by any other name..." comes to mind

In your post you have stated that you in fact have had problems with alcohol in the past, and even now with what you feel is a new sense of perspective towards drinking, you still can't guarantee that you can control your drinking when you decide to socialize. Why flirt with danger? Realistically, you can't trust yourself 100% when it comes to drinking in moderation, can you??
Think about this for a minute: what is so important about drinking that you feel that you want to keep it as a part of your life? You have seen how it has robbed you of many things up to this point, and how much better you are without it... take your history & learn from it...NOW. Don't wait for the years to add up & then look back to see the damage your drinking did to your life.
You seem like a very analytical sort of person... the writing is on the wall my friend... read it... and heed its warning.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but from what I have read of your story you are already questioning the role alcohol plays in your life... I think you already know what you need to do... look deep inside, that's where you will find your answer... not in some book.
All my best to you
Welcome to SR and our Alcoholism Forum....

Why is it so important to you to continue to drink
despite your misgivings? Alcohol is a toxic liquid
that damages everyone who drinks....not only alcoholics.
The answer to your question would be:

Some people are obesely overweight, cholesterol off the charts, and yet they'll eat junk food all the time. It's undeniable that it's dangerous, but as humans we inherently don't like feeling robbed of things. One feels much more freedom in life not feeling like he's less of a person by being limited in ways others aren't.

I agree with you indeed, but wouldn't life be much easier if I wouldn't have to spend next 50 yrs explaining to people why I'm not having that glass of wine? Surely feeling like others is the motivating factor behind my trying to ascertain how dangerous my situation is and if I may be past the point of no return?
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by hb3 View Post
I agree with you indeed, but wouldn't life be much easier if I wouldn't have to spend next 50 yrs explaining to people why I'm not having that glass of wine?
I would hate to think that my life was spent explaining MY LIFE to others.

I'll tell you one thing, and I don't think I'm alone in this...
people question less why I'm not having a drink, than they did questioning my behavior when I did drink.
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:54 AM
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How'd you do on the twenty questions?
Well, the 20 questions.. I would be alcoholic, but it doesn't make sense due to the "have you evers"? Surely, I have drank to build up self-confidence, surely I have hung out with shady characters when drinking/partying in past, but what about now? As of now, on the 20 questions I score 2.

Drinking alcoholically does not mean one is an alcoholic, but I have to say I got the sense from your initial post you have already made up your mind about whether you are an alcoholic or not, and write although you have had "troubling indications" about your drinking you have come to the conclusion you are not an alcoholic.
Yes it does seem that way, I feel pretty strong. However, so have many failed "quitters" felt the same, so I am not excluding possibility of myself being wrong, hence I'm asking for outside opinion on the matter. What would you say? It is my understanding that loss of control over oneself is driven through a false perception of self. Even the 12 step program talks of that spiritual cleansing and drawing from a higher power. I think it is so that people eliminate the very root that made them want to get away, their current psychological picture of themselves caused them so much despair, hence the need to get away that addicts always report, and which I've felt as well. But once you resolve those troubling emotional issues that were the undercarriage of your abusive behavior, does your abusive behavior still survive even though you are an entirely new person with an entirely new outlook and experience of life?
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by hb3 View Post
One feels much more freedom in life not feeling like he's less of a person by being limited in ways others aren't.
When I first quit drinking, I felt like I was giving something up... "limiting" myself, as you said. I had no idea how wrong my thinking was.
I have not had a drink for 2 years, and let me tell you... life has opened itself up to me in so many wonderful ways that I could never have imagined before.

I realize that now I am experiencing what true freedom is...
and I see how blind I was to how my drinking was actually holding my life hostage... and although I was the one that bound myself in those chains, I was also the one that held the key to free myself.
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:55 AM
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The Twenty Questions are good, but based on MY experience I'd add three more

21: Do you always have "a plan" that involves other people to do certain things in order for it to be successful

(If I borrow 50 bucks from Laurie I can pay Jim the twenty I borrowed from him twenty for more cell phone minutes and STILL have ten bucks to ....., and then get mom's fender repaired on credit and then ...and so on)

22: If you are the final owner of more then two cars

(If they get towed or totaled and you don't get them back)

23 Do you go around and ask people if you are an alcoholic and then argue with them when they say yes

( A good example of this would be asking people at DUI school if you are an alcoholic without taking a good look at why you are at DUI school in the first place)

It's a pretty fun game actually, one I spent years playing
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Angel1 View Post
I would hate to think that my life was spent explaining MY LIFE to others.

I'll tell you one thing, and I don't think I'm alone in this...
people question less why I'm not having a drink, than they did questioning my behavior when I did drink.
You are right!

I was weak in my argument.

But, what I really want to say is - having a disease, any disease, is definitely a drawback. I would be very happy to find I don't have the disease, hence I am posing questions. How was your behavior, could you find parallels with yours and mine?
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Old 08-02-2009, 11:00 AM
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There were countless times I was able to moderate my drinking, even during the final years. The Big Book says, "at certain times..."

As I said, you may have little incentive to discover the truth for yourself. You might get another couple of decades of "controlled" drinking.

One thing is that alcoholism is progressive.

I tried A.A. when I found I wanted to moderate consistently and/or stop altogether and couldn't do either of those things.
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Old 08-02-2009, 11:00 AM
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23 Do you go around and ask people if you are an alcoholic and then argue with them when they say yes

( A good example of this would be asking people at DUI school if you are an alcoholic without taking a good look at why you are at DUI school in the first place)
Lol, that was funny :P

That is very true indeed, in other areas too. But I seek information, it doesn't hurt to get as much of it as I can before I radically change my opinion of self and life.
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Old 08-02-2009, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by FightingIrish View Post
There were countless times I was able to moderate my drinking, even during the final years.
Did you feel like you were missing out when you were moderating?

And more importantly, did you still experience same anguish that led you to drink in the first place? OR, would you be feeling all good while on moderate behavior (as I'm feeling now).
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Old 08-02-2009, 11:03 AM
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How'd you do on the twenty questions?







would you be feeling all good while on moderate behavior
while we were able to moderate we felt GREAT, of course we did, that's why we kept drinking
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Old 08-02-2009, 11:11 AM
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I am an 'alcoholic' and I am 23. However I don't really think of it as having a disease, in the same way as having HIV, for example. More that I choose not to drink alcohol anymore as it 'doesn't suit me'. Disease? Call it what you will but it sure does make me very ill, both mentally and physically, when I drink it so I choose not to.

I think 'accepting' that you are an alcoholic is anything but a drawback but continuing drinking and living in denial is definately a huge drawback in life.
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