keithj

Stone hit it right on the head for me. If I could moderate, I wouldn't be an alcoholic.

"The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker."

"By every form of self- deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic."

I remember disagreeing with those passages for a couple of years before it finally clicked home with me. I never had the delusion that I could drink like normal people. I never consciously tried to prove myself non-alcoholic. But then I looked at my actions instead of my thoughts. My actions were doing exactly what the book says. Hmmm. Maybe my thoughts concerning alcohol couldn't be trusted.

Mark75

Hey Zencat... Yea I get what your saying and it's a good point. I want to offer a counterpoint... (or two)

Most agree that recovery involves total abstinence. Abstinence, especially for early sobriety, is damn difficult. That's why this forum is so helpful, especially the newcomers forum. Moderation management is for people who drink too much, not for alcoholics or people dependent on alcohol.

The last thing I want to see on SR is a bunch of people who can manage their alcohol... I get that in the real world enough... I am getting to be more at peace with it, but it sucks, I have to keep telling myself I am different than them... Hell, I have to do that every night when my wife pours her self a drink... It's nice to be in a place where I am NOT different.

Besides, people who need to quit drinking completely may be lead astray by the promise of moderation....

Second.... Pain meds for people in pain and trying not to become addicted to very addictive substances are different from those who want to drink at a party or over dinner...

FWIW

Mark

smacked

Nothing more than a way for alcoholics to keep drinking and say they're "working a program".. of course every drunk's dream come true.

If your exbf can really follow what they propose (what is it, total sobriety for 30 days, then 2 drinks a day thereafter?) he'll know very quickly if it's something he can "manage", or, like me.. he'll just start hiding it and lying more.. that's always a choice.

Why would you offer an alcoholic a link to a program about how to keep drinking? That's insanity to me, imho. And I'm sure he can figure out how to 'not quit' on his own

Bamboozle

Speaking for myself here when I say this...

At this point, any attempt at moderation would be me standing in a cess pool of denial.

paulg

I learnt to control my drinking three years ago when I quit forever. It was the glimpses of sobriety which I got during dry spells or during desperate attempts to control it that gave me the motivation to quit. Not everyone is going to manage to stop drinking straight away. A taste of sobriety is better than nothing. I have a lot of respect for AA, although I am not a member of the fellowship, but this is one issue on which I really disagree. I have no idea if other people can control their drinking, I just couldn't do and at the end didn't want to do it. I can't speak for other people. With respect.

smacked

Paul, for the record.. those of us who disagree with the concept of moderation aren't automatically in the AA club.. I am most certainly not... but I will wholeheartedly disagree with attempts at moderation being in any way congruent with sobriety OR recovery.

paulg

I appreciate what others are saying, but I just think that something is better than nothing. If people aren't ready to quit then at least 'trying' to moderate may prevent some damage to their bodies. Maybe they will get a full sober day here and there and see. 'hey this isn't too bad'. I think not that telling people to at least try and moderate their drinking is unwise. All or nothing can kill. With respect.

stone

So the "good" thing about moderation was that it taught you that you had to abstain completely?

This has nothing to do with AA.

I wasn't asking you speak for other people I only asked if you knew any alcoholics who had managed to moderate without going back to no control, sooner or later.

paulg

I am not quite sure what you want me to say here?

As I said, there were times when my drinking was less bad than other times and during these times I could see how good life could be without alcohol.

As for knowing alcoholics who managed to moderate. I have met people who claimed to have done this. I couldn't do it, but I'm not ignorant enough to just dismiss them as liars even if it is hard not to be sceptical. All I know is that I couldn't do it.

As for it having nothing to do with AA. Well, there have been more than a few AA quotes on this thread.

Look. I'm new to this forum. I can only talk about my own experience. I don't quote from any book, and I don't pretend to have all the answers. If somebody can moderate their drinking; good luck to them. I wouldn't want it for myself.

Sikkisirus

Moderation works for me anyway. I used to obssess over booze and now I don't. When Im not such a newbie here I'll give a link to my 20's diaries and you can judge if I wasn't an alcoholic or not. Im betting you will.
And moderation doesn't work for everyone but it does with some. I was hammered last night but today Ive not though of booze at all. Perhaps im just a heavy drinker who can swtch off? All I know is I was a mess years ago but now I drink and handle it and this works for ME.

sunrise1

Well, I can contribute recent experience to this thread... I guess somewhere in the back of my mind I had MM as the "hope" that others have mentioned here. Last week was a special occasion that I had sort of thought would be my "test" as to whether I could indeed drink occasionally as long as the majority of the time I treated myself as an alcoholic. Well- the first night, I drank to the point of throwing up. The second night, I fell asleep with a buzz. The third night, I was hammered again (but didn't get sick this time). For me? I'd say MM was an unmitigated disaster. When I came back to the forums, the first thing I read was a post that contained "while you are in recovery your addiction is in the parking lot doing push-ups"... how true that turned out to be.

Especially telling is the fact that the founder of the program failed miserably at it, and went on record to say that basically it was a way to make drinking ok for an alcoholic.

I would be nonplussed with a MM forum here. I do think there will be TONS of idiots like me who decide to try it... and although after the weekend I am right back to my program and meetings and realize I simply cannot "moderate", I am betting there are plenty who would not return as well.

Sikkisirus, I appreciate that you like these forums, however, I do know that this forum is for those who WANT to stop drinking... It is hard for me to hear that you got hammered last night but are fine today and will continue with this. That's like walking into a room full of people on a liquid diet and eating a steak in front of them. Just my .02...

tyler

Just because the "founder" of a program fails at it does not mean it can not work for others. At the time of the accident, she was not involved with the program, and before that, she was not following the program she set up.

I personally don't think MM is for me, but just like AA, SMART, etc., arent' for everyone, it is an option that works for some.

I have mixed feelings about a Moderation forum here, but I'm sure that the "powers that be" will make a wise decision. We were told a Secular forum could never work here either because of all the fighting between the secularists and the 12-stepers, but we all seem to get along fairly well now!!

Sikkisirus

I apologise Sunrise.

Mark75

Yep... and this is exactly why I am absolutely opposed to a moderation section of this forum. The most important activity at SR is offering a hand up to those people out there who are scared, alone, confused and troubled in their addictions or loved ones with addictions. It is absolutely, positively the antithesis of this forum's mission to show people that they may, in fact, be able to drink. And not only that... HERE'S HOW...

No thanx... if a moderation section were added... I am out of here...

How's that for a strong opinion???

Mark

P.S.... No offense meant sikkisirus... you are welcome here anytime...

Sikkisirus

No offence taken Cubile

Im not trying to preach anything. Sheesh I have my own horror stories from years ago that would put anyone off drinking for life as we all do. Im just saying how it is for me now. There are no answers at the bottom of a glass thats for sure.

mikefreak

It's all or nothing for me. Took a lot of years & misery before that fact set in! Guess SOME fortunate people can do moderation, but I drank TO GET DRUNK.

spittake

Not only that, she had returned to AA! For several months! So if we are going to make judgments about which program failed her at the time of the accident, we are getting into some offensive territory for members of this board. Not to mention that we aren't supposed to be attacking other people's programs of recovery...

Personally, I was able to moderate very, very early on, when my drinking/drug problems couldn't really even be characterized as dependencies. The last few times I attempted to moderate, I was totally incapable of doing so. If anything, it felt like I was doing more binging during those periods than others, though that could simply have been the feeling of failing miserably.

I must note that no such moderation was attempted with the aid of a structured program or group accountability measures, so my experience should not be interpreted as a direct reflection on Moderation Management.

Mark75

Moderation management is about drinking alcohol. It's success or lack of it is based on drinking, moderately, or whatever.

AA is about a spiritual awakening. Only the first step says anything about drinking.

AA didn't fail her, neither did she fail AA, she failed herself, God rest her soul.

Mark

Mark75

Oh... she didn't die, she'll killed people... God SAVE her soul.

Sorry.

Mark

SomeCallMeTim

My opinion? If you think you have a problem, you do. If it's affecting your life, relationships, work, and/or physical/mental health, it's a problem. I fought it for years and was finally beaten into submission by this disease. I didn't quit, i surrendered.