alcoholism, illness or not?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: brighton, England
Posts: 65
alcoholism, illness or not?
I've been wondering lately if alcoholism really is an ilness. My ex girlfriend, family, friends etc think me saying I have an 'illness' is just an excuse to go on a bender. I'm certainly not suggesting alcoholism isn't a type of ilness, but I'm just starting to doubt it's status as something that an individual cannot stop doing. Any thoughts??
Last edited by treefrog; 07-07-2009 at 03:52 AM.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,415
For about five years I used the "alcoholism is an illness, what can I do?" BS. My brain was totally schizoid. There's a part of me that just was going to drink no matter what, and it kinda created this BS monster whose job was to create all sorts of rationales for the drinking - they made me, it's sunny, I'm frightened, it's a disease, I'm helpless. The BS monster created these and then it was my job to believe them. So in that regard, if you're still drinking then quite probably you are just using it as an excuse.
The breakthrough for me was in realising that I had something over which I had no control, and if I wanted to do something about it (which up until the point where I was beaten, I didn't, not really), then I had to find a way to live with my condition. What I did was seek out and keep company with people who had the same condition and who had found a way to live with it. I became willing to learn. But first, unfortunately, I had to get beat. And I couldn't choose to get beat.
So - good luck!
The breakthrough for me was in realising that I had something over which I had no control, and if I wanted to do something about it (which up until the point where I was beaten, I didn't, not really), then I had to find a way to live with my condition. What I did was seek out and keep company with people who had the same condition and who had found a way to live with it. I became willing to learn. But first, unfortunately, I had to get beat. And I couldn't choose to get beat.
So - good luck!
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
I don't know whether it's an illness or not - that has ceased to be important to me. What I *do* about it is.
What it most certainly is not is 'something that an individual cannot stop doing'.
This board is full of people who have successfully proven that wrong.
Anyone who uses the illness model as an excuse for drinking is simply rationalising their addiction and lying to themselves and to the people around them, Treefrog.
D
What it most certainly is not is 'something that an individual cannot stop doing'.
This board is full of people who have successfully proven that wrong.
Anyone who uses the illness model as an excuse for drinking is simply rationalising their addiction and lying to themselves and to the people around them, Treefrog.
D
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: KC MO
Posts: 980
Alcoholism is most certainly an illness. I was hooked after the first 6 pack of beer.
I have really been studying alcoholism and hypoglycemia. (the vast majority of alcoholics have hypoglycemia). Thanks Carol for pointing this out to us!
After studying how hypoglycemia affects us it became quite clear i've got it bad. I can see others in AA also have it.
A while back I ran out of vitiman B and my cravings went up to the point I almost relapsed. I bought a new book (seven weeks to sobriety) that not only explains hypoglycemia but nutrient deficiency( nutrient deficiency from alcoholism).
I am back to taking vitamin B for starters and have added, amino acids ester C and others. I now have no cravings whatsoever. (thanks again Carol).
So to answer your question YES, it's an illness.
Fred
I have really been studying alcoholism and hypoglycemia. (the vast majority of alcoholics have hypoglycemia). Thanks Carol for pointing this out to us!
After studying how hypoglycemia affects us it became quite clear i've got it bad. I can see others in AA also have it.
A while back I ran out of vitiman B and my cravings went up to the point I almost relapsed. I bought a new book (seven weeks to sobriety) that not only explains hypoglycemia but nutrient deficiency( nutrient deficiency from alcoholism).
I am back to taking vitamin B for starters and have added, amino acids ester C and others. I now have no cravings whatsoever. (thanks again Carol).
So to answer your question YES, it's an illness.
Fred
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,942
The seemingly never ending desire to drink... I believe is an illness.
The inability to stop drinking after 1-2 drinks... I believe is an illness.
Using 'I have an illness' as an excuse to drink... I believe is just an excuse.
People can, and do, stop drinking.
The inability to stop drinking after 1-2 drinks... I believe is an illness.
Using 'I have an illness' as an excuse to drink... I believe is just an excuse.
People can, and do, stop drinking.
Retired Pro Drunk
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 901
I put my faith in the health care professionals that know most about it. The American Medical Assiciation says it's a disease. The World Health Organization says it's a disease.
Who am I to dispute the professionals?
Who am I to dispute the professionals?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: brighton, England
Posts: 65
Thanks TommyK coz thats what i've been thinking. in other words, ultimately it stops being an illness and becomes your own personal self destrustion. Thanks to everyone else by the way. I love hearing advice and thoughts from everone.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,954
I know when I'm active in my alcoholism I experience ill health. When I actively practice an addiction treatment plan I can do something about my alcoholism. If I do nothing, nothing changes. I say be careful with what one believes because it could be ones destiny.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
The suggestion that maybe the reason I reacted to alcohol the way I did, and the fact that I just could not quit (by choice, by force, by rehab, loss etc), drank when I truly did not want to....
"Maybe there is something fundamentally different about me when it comes to alcohol?"
When faced with the question "Is alcoholism an illness? If so, what are the symptoms common to those who have it (regardless of the level of 'suffering')? Do I have these symptoms?
It was really the beginning of a continuing journey...the foundation being that I do have something about me that is not normal, I am suffering from it and am willing to do what it takes to get better ~ was key.
Illness - a chain of really bad choices (whereas I seem to make really good choices in most other areas of my life) - disease (lack of ease?) - excuse to continue hurting myself and those around me?
I don't care what you label it...it's more about coming to terms with "Do I have it?" IMO - only from that place can you begin to recover.
"Maybe there is something fundamentally different about me when it comes to alcohol?"
When faced with the question "Is alcoholism an illness? If so, what are the symptoms common to those who have it (regardless of the level of 'suffering')? Do I have these symptoms?
It was really the beginning of a continuing journey...the foundation being that I do have something about me that is not normal, I am suffering from it and am willing to do what it takes to get better ~ was key.
Illness - a chain of really bad choices (whereas I seem to make really good choices in most other areas of my life) - disease (lack of ease?) - excuse to continue hurting myself and those around me?
I don't care what you label it...it's more about coming to terms with "Do I have it?" IMO - only from that place can you begin to recover.
Thriving sober since 12/18/08
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 3,115
Originally Posted by paulmh 
For about five years I used the "alcoholism is an illness, what can I do?" BS. My brain was totally schizoid. There's a part of me that just was going to drink no matter what, and it kinda created this BS monster whose job was to create all sorts of rationales for the drinking - they made me, it's sunny, I'm frightened, it's a disease, I'm helpless. The BS monster created these and then it was my job to believe them. So in that regard, if you're still drinking then quite probably you are just using it as an excuse.
...
So - good luck!
...
So - good luck!
Ditto x 100+.. and thank you for saving me typing and thinking..
And for the record, it doesn't even matter. Drinking will kill me, so I choose not to do it.. it's just that simple for me.
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Colorado Prairie
Posts: 1,417
I'm certainly not suggesting alcoholism isn't a type of ilness, but I'm just starting to doubt it's status as something that an individual cannot stop doing.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
I'm in the camp of it doesn't matter in the least. As far as recovery goes, illness or not does not matter. The debate is pointless.
The facts of my very own personal experience tell me two things. I can not control my drinking once I start to drink. Therefore, the solution is to not drink. My experience also tells me that I can not stay away from the first drink. For a while maybe, but I always picked up again. That's the truth of my own experience, and doesn't depend on anyone's opinions or thoughts on the matter.
Now, because a bunch of people have come to the same conclusions that I have, based on their own personal experience, we probably have a similar condition. Some of those poeple have recovered and no longer display any symptoms of that condition. I wanted to recover, so I did the same things they had done. I recovered.
I've done the experiment. There is no need to debate it. For this particular individual, me, I don't need to repeat the experiment for the 100th+1 time. It's over. 100 times was plenty to convince me.
But, if you or anybody else remains unconvinced, then do the experiment for yourself. Do it as many times as it takes. Stop drinking. See if you drink again. If you do, you may be like me. And if you're like me, you may have to do what I've done in order to recover.
The facts of my very own personal experience tell me two things. I can not control my drinking once I start to drink. Therefore, the solution is to not drink. My experience also tells me that I can not stay away from the first drink. For a while maybe, but I always picked up again. That's the truth of my own experience, and doesn't depend on anyone's opinions or thoughts on the matter.
Now, because a bunch of people have come to the same conclusions that I have, based on their own personal experience, we probably have a similar condition. Some of those poeple have recovered and no longer display any symptoms of that condition. I wanted to recover, so I did the same things they had done. I recovered.
Originally Posted by treefrog
but I'm just starting to doubt it's status as something that an individual cannot stop doing. Any thoughts??
But, if you or anybody else remains unconvinced, then do the experiment for yourself. Do it as many times as it takes. Stop drinking. See if you drink again. If you do, you may be like me. And if you're like me, you may have to do what I've done in order to recover.
where the light is
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,763
Looking back at my drinking history, I really can't deny that the obsession to drink despite the obvious consequences was anything but a mental illness. Who keeps putting their hand on a hot stove after being repeatedly burned? Certainly some form of insanity. I don't do that anymore! 
Today, I don't view my alcoholism as an active illness or disease. It just is (not unlike an allergy). I can't handle alcohol - simple.
Today, I don't view my alcoholism as an active illness or disease. It just is (not unlike an allergy). I can't handle alcohol - simple.
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,780
Originally Posted by gravity
Looking back at my drinking history, I really can't deny that the obsession to drink despite the obvious consequences was anything but a mental illness. Who keeps putting their hand on a hot stove after being repeatedly burned? Certainly some form of insanity. I don't do that anymore!
Today, I don't view my alcoholism as an active illness or disease. It just is (not unlike an allergy). I can't handle alcohol - simple.
Today, I don't view my alcoholism as an active illness or disease. It just is (not unlike an allergy). I can't handle alcohol - simple.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Here, Now
Posts: 4,268
Kevin T. McCauley, M.D.
1. Is addiction a disease? What are the arguments for and against this notion?
People often disagree with the idea of calling addiction a disease in the same way
we call conditions like diabetes a disease. The behavior of addicts is frustrating, ugly -
even criminal. How can driving drunk be a symptom of a disease?
The best argument against calling addiction a disease states that addicts make the
choice to use drugs and that their inability to stop is simply immature and irresponsible
behavior. Diabetics, for instance, do not have a choice about whether or not to have a
high blood sugar. These arguments make sense, and are often embraced for their intuitive
appeal alone.
When doctors use the Disease Model of Illness to think about a disease, they think
of a specific physical defect in some organ or physiologic system of the body. That
defect, once discovered, provides a causal explanation for the patient’s symptoms and
points the way to treatment. With diseases like diabetes, the defect is easy to understand.
With brain disorders however, it is not that simple.
Our understanding of brain disorders has not kept pace with our understanding of
other diseases - like diabetes. A big part of our difficulty in calling addiction a “disease”
stems from the fact that no one could ever find the defect in the brain that caused
addiction. Without a physical brain defect to point to, addiction never earned the status of
“disease” like diabetes did. The addict’s symptoms were assumed to be due to their
intrinsic badness – their immaturity, their irresponsibility, or worse.
But guess what? In the last ten years we have learned a lot more about the brain.
We know what the physical defect of addiction is and where in the brain it is. Addiction
is a defect in the hedonic system, or the system that perceives pleasure, which is deep in
the part of the brain that handles basic survival. Because of this defect, the addict
unconsciously thinks of the drug as life itself. A beer is not just a beer anymore – the
addict needs the beer to get through life and when the beer is unavailable they crave it.
While it is true that the addict may have a choice in whether or not to use drugs,
they do not have the choice over whether or not to crave. If craving gets bad enough,
even the strongest-willed, most mature and most responsible person will return to using
drugs. No brain can ignore that survival imperative. One of the big reasons we have
difficulty calling addiction a disease is our inability to grasp the true nature of craving.
Craving is a very real mental suffering the addict endures when they come to the point in
their addiction when they are using drugs even when they do not want to.
If you are in medical school and you write, “addiction is not a disease” on one of
your exams – you will flunk. In medicine, we now know that the addict’s brain really is
different than normal brains, and from a physiologic standpoint we now know how it is
different. This explains a lot of the symptoms we see in full-blown addiction and helps us
develop better, more effective treatments to help the addict recover. It also means that
addiction fits the Disease Model of illness as well - if not better - than many other
diseases.
Like say, diabetes.
For more info go to www.addictiondoctor.com
1. Is addiction a disease? What are the arguments for and against this notion?
People often disagree with the idea of calling addiction a disease in the same way
we call conditions like diabetes a disease. The behavior of addicts is frustrating, ugly -
even criminal. How can driving drunk be a symptom of a disease?
The best argument against calling addiction a disease states that addicts make the
choice to use drugs and that their inability to stop is simply immature and irresponsible
behavior. Diabetics, for instance, do not have a choice about whether or not to have a
high blood sugar. These arguments make sense, and are often embraced for their intuitive
appeal alone.
When doctors use the Disease Model of Illness to think about a disease, they think
of a specific physical defect in some organ or physiologic system of the body. That
defect, once discovered, provides a causal explanation for the patient’s symptoms and
points the way to treatment. With diseases like diabetes, the defect is easy to understand.
With brain disorders however, it is not that simple.
Our understanding of brain disorders has not kept pace with our understanding of
other diseases - like diabetes. A big part of our difficulty in calling addiction a “disease”
stems from the fact that no one could ever find the defect in the brain that caused
addiction. Without a physical brain defect to point to, addiction never earned the status of
“disease” like diabetes did. The addict’s symptoms were assumed to be due to their
intrinsic badness – their immaturity, their irresponsibility, or worse.
But guess what? In the last ten years we have learned a lot more about the brain.
We know what the physical defect of addiction is and where in the brain it is. Addiction
is a defect in the hedonic system, or the system that perceives pleasure, which is deep in
the part of the brain that handles basic survival. Because of this defect, the addict
unconsciously thinks of the drug as life itself. A beer is not just a beer anymore – the
addict needs the beer to get through life and when the beer is unavailable they crave it.
While it is true that the addict may have a choice in whether or not to use drugs,
they do not have the choice over whether or not to crave. If craving gets bad enough,
even the strongest-willed, most mature and most responsible person will return to using
drugs. No brain can ignore that survival imperative. One of the big reasons we have
difficulty calling addiction a disease is our inability to grasp the true nature of craving.
Craving is a very real mental suffering the addict endures when they come to the point in
their addiction when they are using drugs even when they do not want to.
If you are in medical school and you write, “addiction is not a disease” on one of
your exams – you will flunk. In medicine, we now know that the addict’s brain really is
different than normal brains, and from a physiologic standpoint we now know how it is
different. This explains a lot of the symptoms we see in full-blown addiction and helps us
develop better, more effective treatments to help the addict recover. It also means that
addiction fits the Disease Model of illness as well - if not better - than many other
diseases.
Like say, diabetes.
For more info go to www.addictiondoctor.com
Alcoholic
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Calais Maine
Posts: 37
All great posts! Is it a disease or not? I certainly understand that question. I fought with it for years. Today, it really doesn't matter. I'VE GOT 'IT'!!! There is no doubt about it, in my mind body or soul... I'm just glad I found a way out of the insanity of alcoholism, whatever 'IT' is.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,504
Alcoholism is a disease, it is not a character defect.
There are many diseases that can be 'cured' by taking care of ourselves. In fact, many of our illnesses would get better on their own, whether or not we went to a dr or a hospital. The fact that we can 'cure' alcoholism by stopping drinking doesn't mean it's not a disease.
There are many diseases that can be 'cured' by taking care of ourselves. In fact, many of our illnesses would get better on their own, whether or not we went to a dr or a hospital. The fact that we can 'cure' alcoholism by stopping drinking doesn't mean it's not a disease.
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