alcoholism, illness or not?
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
I don't really care either.. but my OWN experience in my thinking about this has taught me that as long as I was able to blame a disease, I drank. Once I came to the conclusion that a supernatural or uncontrollablw power was NOT lifting a drink to my lips and forcing it down my throat, I was empowered to stop, and I did.
All I know is, it's not an issue for me anymore!
All I know is, it's not an issue for me anymore!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 4
I believe it is as an illness and can make you rationalize that to continue. Recovery can be so difficult because it causes a schism in your brain; the old you who you relied on for reason and rationalization and the new you who must give up this traits (or surrender rather) in regards to drinking. Basically, you cant necessarily trust your old reasoning abilities because they've been neurologically re-arranged because of alcohol. That's why those in recovery talk about it as a cunning and evil beast constantly rationalizing it. They're at war with a part of them that they may have most likely been with longer than their new sober self, and really, I think we all know that we can be our own worst enemy. That's my take at least.
Of course, others choose not to believe it as an illness or a disease because not only are they normal drinkers that can do it in moderation, but also alcoholism and addiction can cause criminal behavior that is very hard to sympathize with (not to mention lying, betrayal, laziness, and violence as by-products). This is understandably frustrating to people that just don't have our condition.
Of course, others choose not to believe it as an illness or a disease because not only are they normal drinkers that can do it in moderation, but also alcoholism and addiction can cause criminal behavior that is very hard to sympathize with (not to mention lying, betrayal, laziness, and violence as by-products). This is understandably frustrating to people that just don't have our condition.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 4
I'm all for research on alcoholism as a medical condition, but unfortunately some of the results can and will be used to rationalize drinking, such as the fact that the condition is 100% relapse-able (like cancer). I remember when I heard that my subconscious first reaction did it's best to assure me that if I relapse, I'm fine, and my own mind would rationalize it in a cyclical way.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,141
I've wrestled with this for years. What I do know for sure is that unrestrained drinking cannot be good for one's health, just like smoking, overeating, etc.
This board is sort of specific to alcoholism and drug addiction for the most part, so I focus on that the most. However, my smoking bothers me more than the drinking. People don't call smoking an illness, so at this point I just shrug and realize I'd better clean all of it up.
This board is sort of specific to alcoholism and drug addiction for the most part, so I focus on that the most. However, my smoking bothers me more than the drinking. People don't call smoking an illness, so at this point I just shrug and realize I'd better clean all of it up.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
THIQ = Tetrahydroisoquinoline
For many years, the medical community has been doing expansive research on the biological complexities of the Alcoholic. But, perhaps, one of the most intriguing discoveries was made quite by accident.
It all started down in Houston, Texas with a medical scientist named Virginia Davis who was busy doing cancer research. For her studies, Virginia needed access to fresh human brains, which, as we know, are not readily available. Virginia would ride along with the Houston police on their early morning rounds as they patrolled skid row, collecting the bodies of the street alcoholics who died overnight. After taking the temperatures of the bodies, Virginia would rush the warm ones back to the hospital where she could remove their brains for her cancer research.
One day, Virginia was in the hospital cafeteria talking to her colleagues. She began telling them about some of the findings of her laboratory studies, and she said: "You know I never realized that all those winos used heroin as well as booze." These were seasoned emergency room doctors; they just laughed at her. "Come on Virginia," they told her. "These guys don't use heroin. They can barely afford a bottle of cheap muscatel."
Virginia knew she was onto something. She had discovered in the brains of those chronic alcoholics a substance that is very closely related to heroin. This substance is called, Tetrahydroisoquinoline or THIQ for short. When a person uses heroin, the heroin breaks down in the system and one of the by-products is THIQ. Virginia's mystery was; how did this THIQ get into the brains of these hardcore alcoholics?
To better understand all of this, we will need a small lesson in biochemistry. When the normal adult drinker takes in alcohol it's processed at about one drink per hour. The body first converts the alcohol into something called acetaldehyde (a very toxic substance that if accumulated would make one very sick or could be fatal). The body is designed, via biological processes, to quickly rid itself of this toxic acetaldehyde. It is changed into acetic acid (vinegar), and then into carbon dioxide and water, which is dispelled through the kidneys and lungs. That's what happens in a "normal" drinker. It also happens with the alcoholic drinker, but there is a "P.S.".
As was discovered by Virginia Davis, in the alcoholic, a very small amount of acetaldehyde is not eliminated. Instead, it goes to the brain where, through a very complex biochemical process, it is transformed into THIQ. Here is a little information about THIQ.
First, THIQ is created in the brain, and it only occurs in the brain of the alcoholic drinker; it does not and cannot happen in the brain of the social drinker. Second, THIQ has been found to be highly addictive. It was used experimentally with animals during WWII when doctors were looking for a pain killer less addictive than morphine. THIQ turned out to be an excellent pain killer but its addictive qualities far exceed that of morphine. The third fascinating item about THIQ also has to do with addiction. An experiment using alcohol averting rats and THIQ was conducted. These rats, when put into a cage with a very weak solution of vodka and water, will refuse to drink it to the point where they will thirst to death. Take the same rat and inject a minute quantity of THIQ into its brain and the animal will immediately develop an intense preference for alcohol over water. So, with one small injection of THIQ, the rat bred to refuse alcohol, had become an alcoholic rat.
Other studies have been done with monkeys, a very- close relative to humans in medical terms. What has been learned is that once THIQ is injected into. a. monkey's brain, it stays there. You can keep a THIQed monkey dry, off alcohol, for as long as seven years and when the monkey is sacrificed and his brain is examined, the THIQ is still there.
For a long time, specialists in the alcoholism field have suspected what these laboratory findings verified. Specialists have noticed, for- years, that through the exploration of an alcoholic's family history, there is inevitably. evidence of alcoholism within said family. In virtually all cases of alcoholism, there -is a family predisposition - an abnormality in the body chemistry - toward the manufacturing of THIQ.
We know alcoholics don't intend to make THIQ when they start. drinking and become addicted to alcohol. They don't mean for their brains to manufacture something stronger than morphine. They've been warned about the evils of narcotics but they've heard a great deal less about the power and potential of alcohol. Most people take a drink now and then and according to a study done by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, 92% of high school seniors have had experiences with alcohol & 67% are current users (1987). Within our society alcohol consumption is not just accepted behavior, it is expected.
Unfortunately, the alcoholics-to-be aren't equipped to process alcohol in the normal way. They are unaware of their predisposition toward the THIQ production their brain's chemistry has inherited. Most people didn't know anything about this condition until fairly recently. So the alcoholics-to-be innocently start drinking moderately in the beginning, maybe a few drinks on the weekends. As their drinking progresses, they might get seriously drunk two or three times a year. No real life problems seem to have developed. During all these drinking episodes, the brain is busy making a little cache of THIQ. At some point, maybe sooner or later, the alcoholic will cross over that shadowy line into a whole new alcoholic way of life.
Medical science still cannot predict with accuracy how much THIQ an individual brain will stockpile before the "big event" happens. Some people cross the line in their teens, others, in their 30's, 40's, 50's or later. But once it happens, the alcoholic will be as hooked on alcohol as he would have been hooked on heroin if he'd been shooting that up instead for very similar chemical reasons.
As dismal as this picture may appear, there is good news. Alcoholism is a disease and is arrestable and highly treatable. Alcoholism is neither the alcoholics fault nor his choice. Today alcoholics can get proper treatment for their disease, and that treatment begins when the alcoholic patient begins to get the facts on their disease.
These facts, when properly presented, can begin to alleviate some of the massive guilt that consumes the alcoholic. Treatment can begin to replace the guilt with a sense of the need for the alcoholic to become responsible for himself and accountable for his/her actions. Through quality treatment with knowledgeable caring professionals, the alcoholic can put himself /herself on the path of recovery. With the help of others and a strong support system he/she can live a healthy fruitful life. That's the good news for all of us. For the alcoholics and their significant others, it's the best news they can ever wish for.
Andrew Eisenhauer -- (This article was based on the writings of Dr. David L. Ohlms from his book: "The Disease Concept of Alcoholism").
For many years, the medical community has been doing expansive research on the biological complexities of the Alcoholic. But, perhaps, one of the most intriguing discoveries was made quite by accident.
It all started down in Houston, Texas with a medical scientist named Virginia Davis who was busy doing cancer research. For her studies, Virginia needed access to fresh human brains, which, as we know, are not readily available. Virginia would ride along with the Houston police on their early morning rounds as they patrolled skid row, collecting the bodies of the street alcoholics who died overnight. After taking the temperatures of the bodies, Virginia would rush the warm ones back to the hospital where she could remove their brains for her cancer research.
One day, Virginia was in the hospital cafeteria talking to her colleagues. She began telling them about some of the findings of her laboratory studies, and she said: "You know I never realized that all those winos used heroin as well as booze." These were seasoned emergency room doctors; they just laughed at her. "Come on Virginia," they told her. "These guys don't use heroin. They can barely afford a bottle of cheap muscatel."
Virginia knew she was onto something. She had discovered in the brains of those chronic alcoholics a substance that is very closely related to heroin. This substance is called, Tetrahydroisoquinoline or THIQ for short. When a person uses heroin, the heroin breaks down in the system and one of the by-products is THIQ. Virginia's mystery was; how did this THIQ get into the brains of these hardcore alcoholics?
To better understand all of this, we will need a small lesson in biochemistry. When the normal adult drinker takes in alcohol it's processed at about one drink per hour. The body first converts the alcohol into something called acetaldehyde (a very toxic substance that if accumulated would make one very sick or could be fatal). The body is designed, via biological processes, to quickly rid itself of this toxic acetaldehyde. It is changed into acetic acid (vinegar), and then into carbon dioxide and water, which is dispelled through the kidneys and lungs. That's what happens in a "normal" drinker. It also happens with the alcoholic drinker, but there is a "P.S.".
As was discovered by Virginia Davis, in the alcoholic, a very small amount of acetaldehyde is not eliminated. Instead, it goes to the brain where, through a very complex biochemical process, it is transformed into THIQ. Here is a little information about THIQ.
First, THIQ is created in the brain, and it only occurs in the brain of the alcoholic drinker; it does not and cannot happen in the brain of the social drinker. Second, THIQ has been found to be highly addictive. It was used experimentally with animals during WWII when doctors were looking for a pain killer less addictive than morphine. THIQ turned out to be an excellent pain killer but its addictive qualities far exceed that of morphine. The third fascinating item about THIQ also has to do with addiction. An experiment using alcohol averting rats and THIQ was conducted. These rats, when put into a cage with a very weak solution of vodka and water, will refuse to drink it to the point where they will thirst to death. Take the same rat and inject a minute quantity of THIQ into its brain and the animal will immediately develop an intense preference for alcohol over water. So, with one small injection of THIQ, the rat bred to refuse alcohol, had become an alcoholic rat.
Other studies have been done with monkeys, a very- close relative to humans in medical terms. What has been learned is that once THIQ is injected into. a. monkey's brain, it stays there. You can keep a THIQed monkey dry, off alcohol, for as long as seven years and when the monkey is sacrificed and his brain is examined, the THIQ is still there.
For a long time, specialists in the alcoholism field have suspected what these laboratory findings verified. Specialists have noticed, for- years, that through the exploration of an alcoholic's family history, there is inevitably. evidence of alcoholism within said family. In virtually all cases of alcoholism, there -is a family predisposition - an abnormality in the body chemistry - toward the manufacturing of THIQ.
We know alcoholics don't intend to make THIQ when they start. drinking and become addicted to alcohol. They don't mean for their brains to manufacture something stronger than morphine. They've been warned about the evils of narcotics but they've heard a great deal less about the power and potential of alcohol. Most people take a drink now and then and according to a study done by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, 92% of high school seniors have had experiences with alcohol & 67% are current users (1987). Within our society alcohol consumption is not just accepted behavior, it is expected.
Unfortunately, the alcoholics-to-be aren't equipped to process alcohol in the normal way. They are unaware of their predisposition toward the THIQ production their brain's chemistry has inherited. Most people didn't know anything about this condition until fairly recently. So the alcoholics-to-be innocently start drinking moderately in the beginning, maybe a few drinks on the weekends. As their drinking progresses, they might get seriously drunk two or three times a year. No real life problems seem to have developed. During all these drinking episodes, the brain is busy making a little cache of THIQ. At some point, maybe sooner or later, the alcoholic will cross over that shadowy line into a whole new alcoholic way of life.
Medical science still cannot predict with accuracy how much THIQ an individual brain will stockpile before the "big event" happens. Some people cross the line in their teens, others, in their 30's, 40's, 50's or later. But once it happens, the alcoholic will be as hooked on alcohol as he would have been hooked on heroin if he'd been shooting that up instead for very similar chemical reasons.
As dismal as this picture may appear, there is good news. Alcoholism is a disease and is arrestable and highly treatable. Alcoholism is neither the alcoholics fault nor his choice. Today alcoholics can get proper treatment for their disease, and that treatment begins when the alcoholic patient begins to get the facts on their disease.
These facts, when properly presented, can begin to alleviate some of the massive guilt that consumes the alcoholic. Treatment can begin to replace the guilt with a sense of the need for the alcoholic to become responsible for himself and accountable for his/her actions. Through quality treatment with knowledgeable caring professionals, the alcoholic can put himself /herself on the path of recovery. With the help of others and a strong support system he/she can live a healthy fruitful life. That's the good news for all of us. For the alcoholics and their significant others, it's the best news they can ever wish for.
Andrew Eisenhauer -- (This article was based on the writings of Dr. David L. Ohlms from his book: "The Disease Concept of Alcoholism").
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
THIQ = Tetrahydroisoquinoline
For many years, the medical community has been doing expansive research on the biological complexities of the Alcoholic. But, perhaps, one of the most intriguing discoveries was made quite by accident.
It all started down in Houston, Texas with a medical scientist named Virginia Davis who was busy doing cancer research. For her studies, Virginia needed access to fresh human brains, which, as we know, are not readily available. Virginia would ride along with the Houston police on their early morning rounds as they patrolled skid row, collecting the bodies of the street alcoholics who died overnight. After taking the temperatures of the bodies, Virginia would rush the warm ones back to the hospital where she could remove their brains for her cancer research.
One day, Virginia was in the hospital cafeteria talking to her colleagues. She began telling them about some of the findings of her laboratory studies, and she said: "You know I never realized that all those winos used heroin as well as booze." These were seasoned emergency room doctors; they just laughed at her. "Come on Virginia," they told her. "These guys don't use heroin. They can barely afford a bottle of cheap muscatel."
Virginia knew she was onto something. She had discovered in the brains of those chronic alcoholics a substance that is very closely related to heroin. This substance is called, Tetrahydroisoquinoline or THIQ for short. When a person uses heroin, the heroin breaks down in the system and one of the by-products is THIQ. Virginia's mystery was; how did this THIQ get into the brains of these hardcore alcoholics?
To better understand all of this, we will need a small lesson in biochemistry. When the normal adult drinker takes in alcohol it's processed at about one drink per hour. The body first converts the alcohol into something called acetaldehyde (a very toxic substance that if accumulated would make one very sick or could be fatal). The body is designed, via biological processes, to quickly rid itself of this toxic acetaldehyde. It is changed into acetic acid (vinegar), and then into carbon dioxide and water, which is dispelled through the kidneys and lungs. That's what happens in a "normal" drinker. It also happens with the alcoholic drinker, but there is a "P.S.".
As was discovered by Virginia Davis, in the alcoholic, a very small amount of acetaldehyde is not eliminated. Instead, it goes to the brain where, through a very complex biochemical process, it is transformed into THIQ. Here is a little information about THIQ.
First, THIQ is created in the brain, and it only occurs in the brain of the alcoholic drinker; it does not and cannot happen in the brain of the social drinker. Second, THIQ has been found to be highly addictive. It was used experimentally with animals during WWII when doctors were looking for a pain killer less addictive than morphine. THIQ turned out to be an excellent pain killer but its addictive qualities far exceed that of morphine. The third fascinating item about THIQ also has to do with addiction. An experiment using alcohol averting rats and THIQ was conducted. These rats, when put into a cage with a very weak solution of vodka and water, will refuse to drink it to the point where they will thirst to death. Take the same rat and inject a minute quantity of THIQ into its brain and the animal will immediately develop an intense preference for alcohol over water. So, with one small injection of THIQ, the rat bred to refuse alcohol, had become an alcoholic rat.
Other studies have been done with monkeys, a very- close relative to humans in medical terms. What has been learned is that once THIQ is injected into. a. monkey's brain, it stays there. You can keep a THIQed monkey dry, off alcohol, for as long as seven years and when the monkey is sacrificed and his brain is examined, the THIQ is still there.
For a long time, specialists in the alcoholism field have suspected what these laboratory findings verified. Specialists have noticed, for- years, that through the exploration of an alcoholic's family history, there is inevitably. evidence of alcoholism within said family. In virtually all cases of alcoholism, there -is a family predisposition - an abnormality in the body chemistry - toward the manufacturing of THIQ.
We know alcoholics don't intend to make THIQ when they start. drinking and become addicted to alcohol. They don't mean for their brains to manufacture something stronger than morphine. They've been warned about the evils of narcotics but they've heard a great deal less about the power and potential of alcohol. Most people take a drink now and then and according to a study done by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, 92% of high school seniors have had experiences with alcohol & 67% are current users (1987). Within our society alcohol consumption is not just accepted behavior, it is expected.
Unfortunately, the alcoholics-to-be aren't equipped to process alcohol in the normal way. They are unaware of their predisposition toward the THIQ production their brain's chemistry has inherited. Most people didn't know anything about this condition until fairly recently. So the alcoholics-to-be innocently start drinking moderately in the beginning, maybe a few drinks on the weekends. As their drinking progresses, they might get seriously drunk two or three times a year. No real life problems seem to have developed. During all these drinking episodes, the brain is busy making a little cache of THIQ. At some point, maybe sooner or later, the alcoholic will cross over that shadowy line into a whole new alcoholic way of life.
Medical science still cannot predict with accuracy how much THIQ an individual brain will stockpile before the "big event" happens. Some people cross the line in their teens, others, in their 30's, 40's, 50's or later. But once it happens, the alcoholic will be as hooked on alcohol as he would have been hooked on heroin if he'd been shooting that up instead for very similar chemical reasons.
As dismal as this picture may appear, there is good news. Alcoholism is a disease and is arrestable and highly treatable. Alcoholism is neither the alcoholics fault nor his choice. Today alcoholics can get proper treatment for their disease, and that treatment begins when the alcoholic patient begins to get the facts on their disease.
These facts, when properly presented, can begin to alleviate some of the massive guilt that consumes the alcoholic. Treatment can begin to replace the guilt with a sense of the need for the alcoholic to become responsible for himself and accountable for his/her actions. Through quality treatment with knowledgeable caring professionals, the alcoholic can put himself /herself on the path of recovery. With the help of others and a strong support system he/she can live a healthy fruitful life. That's the good news for all of us. For the alcoholics and their significant others, it's the best news they can ever wish for.
Andrew Eisenhauer -- (This article was based on the writings of Dr. David L. Ohlms from his book: "The Disease Concept of Alcoholism").
For many years, the medical community has been doing expansive research on the biological complexities of the Alcoholic. But, perhaps, one of the most intriguing discoveries was made quite by accident.
It all started down in Houston, Texas with a medical scientist named Virginia Davis who was busy doing cancer research. For her studies, Virginia needed access to fresh human brains, which, as we know, are not readily available. Virginia would ride along with the Houston police on their early morning rounds as they patrolled skid row, collecting the bodies of the street alcoholics who died overnight. After taking the temperatures of the bodies, Virginia would rush the warm ones back to the hospital where she could remove their brains for her cancer research.
One day, Virginia was in the hospital cafeteria talking to her colleagues. She began telling them about some of the findings of her laboratory studies, and she said: "You know I never realized that all those winos used heroin as well as booze." These were seasoned emergency room doctors; they just laughed at her. "Come on Virginia," they told her. "These guys don't use heroin. They can barely afford a bottle of cheap muscatel."
Virginia knew she was onto something. She had discovered in the brains of those chronic alcoholics a substance that is very closely related to heroin. This substance is called, Tetrahydroisoquinoline or THIQ for short. When a person uses heroin, the heroin breaks down in the system and one of the by-products is THIQ. Virginia's mystery was; how did this THIQ get into the brains of these hardcore alcoholics?
To better understand all of this, we will need a small lesson in biochemistry. When the normal adult drinker takes in alcohol it's processed at about one drink per hour. The body first converts the alcohol into something called acetaldehyde (a very toxic substance that if accumulated would make one very sick or could be fatal). The body is designed, via biological processes, to quickly rid itself of this toxic acetaldehyde. It is changed into acetic acid (vinegar), and then into carbon dioxide and water, which is dispelled through the kidneys and lungs. That's what happens in a "normal" drinker. It also happens with the alcoholic drinker, but there is a "P.S.".
As was discovered by Virginia Davis, in the alcoholic, a very small amount of acetaldehyde is not eliminated. Instead, it goes to the brain where, through a very complex biochemical process, it is transformed into THIQ. Here is a little information about THIQ.
First, THIQ is created in the brain, and it only occurs in the brain of the alcoholic drinker; it does not and cannot happen in the brain of the social drinker. Second, THIQ has been found to be highly addictive. It was used experimentally with animals during WWII when doctors were looking for a pain killer less addictive than morphine. THIQ turned out to be an excellent pain killer but its addictive qualities far exceed that of morphine. The third fascinating item about THIQ also has to do with addiction. An experiment using alcohol averting rats and THIQ was conducted. These rats, when put into a cage with a very weak solution of vodka and water, will refuse to drink it to the point where they will thirst to death. Take the same rat and inject a minute quantity of THIQ into its brain and the animal will immediately develop an intense preference for alcohol over water. So, with one small injection of THIQ, the rat bred to refuse alcohol, had become an alcoholic rat.
Other studies have been done with monkeys, a very- close relative to humans in medical terms. What has been learned is that once THIQ is injected into. a. monkey's brain, it stays there. You can keep a THIQed monkey dry, off alcohol, for as long as seven years and when the monkey is sacrificed and his brain is examined, the THIQ is still there.
For a long time, specialists in the alcoholism field have suspected what these laboratory findings verified. Specialists have noticed, for- years, that through the exploration of an alcoholic's family history, there is inevitably. evidence of alcoholism within said family. In virtually all cases of alcoholism, there -is a family predisposition - an abnormality in the body chemistry - toward the manufacturing of THIQ.
We know alcoholics don't intend to make THIQ when they start. drinking and become addicted to alcohol. They don't mean for their brains to manufacture something stronger than morphine. They've been warned about the evils of narcotics but they've heard a great deal less about the power and potential of alcohol. Most people take a drink now and then and according to a study done by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, 92% of high school seniors have had experiences with alcohol & 67% are current users (1987). Within our society alcohol consumption is not just accepted behavior, it is expected.
Unfortunately, the alcoholics-to-be aren't equipped to process alcohol in the normal way. They are unaware of their predisposition toward the THIQ production their brain's chemistry has inherited. Most people didn't know anything about this condition until fairly recently. So the alcoholics-to-be innocently start drinking moderately in the beginning, maybe a few drinks on the weekends. As their drinking progresses, they might get seriously drunk two or three times a year. No real life problems seem to have developed. During all these drinking episodes, the brain is busy making a little cache of THIQ. At some point, maybe sooner or later, the alcoholic will cross over that shadowy line into a whole new alcoholic way of life.
Medical science still cannot predict with accuracy how much THIQ an individual brain will stockpile before the "big event" happens. Some people cross the line in their teens, others, in their 30's, 40's, 50's or later. But once it happens, the alcoholic will be as hooked on alcohol as he would have been hooked on heroin if he'd been shooting that up instead for very similar chemical reasons.
As dismal as this picture may appear, there is good news. Alcoholism is a disease and is arrestable and highly treatable. Alcoholism is neither the alcoholics fault nor his choice. Today alcoholics can get proper treatment for their disease, and that treatment begins when the alcoholic patient begins to get the facts on their disease.
These facts, when properly presented, can begin to alleviate some of the massive guilt that consumes the alcoholic. Treatment can begin to replace the guilt with a sense of the need for the alcoholic to become responsible for himself and accountable for his/her actions. Through quality treatment with knowledgeable caring professionals, the alcoholic can put himself /herself on the path of recovery. With the help of others and a strong support system he/she can live a healthy fruitful life. That's the good news for all of us. For the alcoholics and their significant others, it's the best news they can ever wish for.
Andrew Eisenhauer -- (This article was based on the writings of Dr. David L. Ohlms from his book: "The Disease Concept of Alcoholism").
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 2,548
This debate has been around as long as my mother.....and i guess will continue.
When i first come across the notion that alcoholism is a disease....affliction..i clung onto to it for dear life.
Perfect solution for someone running out of things to blame and hang my hat on.
i too have done the endless round of www research to find out why..if and who...
i believe i have an illness that centres in my mind............and that is it.
i dont chase my own tail trying to find out whether it is.......it just what i believe....and i have good reason for that.
what would i gain if it was proved to be an illness ....infliction...or weakness of character......nothing.
i still have to find a solution .
so now i have more books about the solution rather than the problem.
i understand why this comes up alot i just question its usefulness...
When i first come across the notion that alcoholism is a disease....affliction..i clung onto to it for dear life.
Perfect solution for someone running out of things to blame and hang my hat on.
i too have done the endless round of www research to find out why..if and who...
i believe i have an illness that centres in my mind............and that is it.
i dont chase my own tail trying to find out whether it is.......it just what i believe....and i have good reason for that.
what would i gain if it was proved to be an illness ....infliction...or weakness of character......nothing.
i still have to find a solution .
so now i have more books about the solution rather than the problem.
i understand why this comes up alot i just question its usefulness...
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,954
The disease model as I have learned comes from E.M. Jellinek who presented a comprehensive disease model of alcoholism in 1960. And this follows from a general understanding of what constitutes a non-infectious disease.
Given the disease model can accommodate more common understandings of what a disease is. Being infectious or genetic or whatever. What Jellinek attempted to do was include alcoholism with a medical understanding of a disease. I'm sure he never thought that his disease concept would be a point of confusion or contempt within the medical community and it hasn't. Its the laymen that has problems with it.
This is sticky stuff really...LOL
- Its primary. There is a singular cause: alcohol.
- Its chronic. That is, its persistent and develops over time.
- Its progressive. That is without treatment it gets worse.
- Its fatal. Left untreated alcoholism...well you know the drill: jails institutions and death. The disease model of alcoholism is particular concerned with the death part.
Given the disease model can accommodate more common understandings of what a disease is. Being infectious or genetic or whatever. What Jellinek attempted to do was include alcoholism with a medical understanding of a disease. I'm sure he never thought that his disease concept would be a point of confusion or contempt within the medical community and it hasn't. Its the laymen that has problems with it.
This is sticky stuff really...LOL
where the light is
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,763
Many interesting posts.
I never used "alcoholism as a disease" as an excuse to keep drinking. Right to the bitter end, I clung to that faint hope that I wasn't an alcoholic and that I could learn to drink like a normal person. Even at my first AA meeting, I refused to describe myself as an alcoholic (I said I was a drunk!
)
The day that I finally accepted that I am an alcoholic was the day my true recovery began.
I know a few active alcoholics and their actions are clearly delusional - e.g. they truly believe that their drinking is under control & that nobody is really getting hurt.
This is just like I used to be. In absolutely no way does it excuse my actions but it does help me understand what was going on in my mind. Also, I think the 12 steps support this perspective, the whole process of making amends.
I never used "alcoholism as a disease" as an excuse to keep drinking. Right to the bitter end, I clung to that faint hope that I wasn't an alcoholic and that I could learn to drink like a normal person. Even at my first AA meeting, I refused to describe myself as an alcoholic (I said I was a drunk!
)The day that I finally accepted that I am an alcoholic was the day my true recovery began.
I know a few active alcoholics and their actions are clearly delusional - e.g. they truly believe that their drinking is under control & that nobody is really getting hurt.
This is just like I used to be. In absolutely no way does it excuse my actions but it does help me understand what was going on in my mind. Also, I think the 12 steps support this perspective, the whole process of making amends.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 818
Discussing the subject of alcoholism as a disease is an intellectual exercise of some merit. If we want to really delve into the mysteries of the disorder we can always throw in the subject of genetics and family history. But in the long run it really doesn't matter. I can have a total and absolute knowledge of alcoholism, but this has no bearing on what I should do about being an alcoholic.
Why I'm an alcoholic isn't important. It's like chasing through the jungle looking for the particular mesquito that gave you malaria. It's an exercise in futility. What I need to do is focus on recovery, not cause. I'm an alcoholic and I need to do something about it or I'll die from it. It's that simple. I need to stop drinking. In my case I was successful in quitting through AA. That program saved my life and countless lives before me. I'll let the medical researchers look for the root causes of alcoholism. I'll be working on helping others get sober.
Why I'm an alcoholic isn't important. It's like chasing through the jungle looking for the particular mesquito that gave you malaria. It's an exercise in futility. What I need to do is focus on recovery, not cause. I'm an alcoholic and I need to do something about it or I'll die from it. It's that simple. I need to stop drinking. In my case I was successful in quitting through AA. That program saved my life and countless lives before me. I'll let the medical researchers look for the root causes of alcoholism. I'll be working on helping others get sober.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 185
My drinking was definately a symptom.... Not sure if its a disease who knows, but it took me a long time to discover that for me to recover was to stop focusing on the symp
toms and work on the cause, and for me its recognising and managing my emotions.... Good luck x
toms and work on the cause, and for me its recognising and managing my emotions.... Good luck x
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 50
I struggled with this question for a lot of years, actually. This is what I finally decided.
My dad was an alcoholic and I think it truly is genetic. I honestly believe my brain responds to alcohol very different then "normal" people. I think it is a disease. The first time I got drunk I was 10 years old, and I remember thinking "this is how I'm SUPPOSED to feel!" I just don't believe that is a normal reaction to alcohol for a 10 year old. And from that moment on, I drank as often as I could, and as much as I could.
I'm not saying that everyone who has a drinking problem has a disease, but I have no doubt that I do. And I think it would be extremely dangerous for me to start thinking it isn't a disease, because my brain would try to tell me I could drink like everyone else, even though I have tried to do that my whole life and have never been able to.
My brain forgets how bad it was. And quite frankly, that in itself seems like a disease to me. The fact that I can so easily convince myself that I don't have a problem even though I've proven over and over again that I do, seems to indicate that my brain isn't doing something right. And after all, the brain is part of the body. If it isn't working right it is just as much a disease as if your heart doesn't work right.
As far as, using it as an excuse. For me it is the opposite. Once I accepted that it was a disease. I quit trying to control my drinking, and knew I had to completely stop. I'm going on 7 months sober, and that is the longest I've ever made it! And for the first time I feel good about quitting. Because I know if I start again, it will keep getting worse and I just can't live like that anymore.
So there's my two cents
My dad was an alcoholic and I think it truly is genetic. I honestly believe my brain responds to alcohol very different then "normal" people. I think it is a disease. The first time I got drunk I was 10 years old, and I remember thinking "this is how I'm SUPPOSED to feel!" I just don't believe that is a normal reaction to alcohol for a 10 year old. And from that moment on, I drank as often as I could, and as much as I could.
I'm not saying that everyone who has a drinking problem has a disease, but I have no doubt that I do. And I think it would be extremely dangerous for me to start thinking it isn't a disease, because my brain would try to tell me I could drink like everyone else, even though I have tried to do that my whole life and have never been able to.
My brain forgets how bad it was. And quite frankly, that in itself seems like a disease to me. The fact that I can so easily convince myself that I don't have a problem even though I've proven over and over again that I do, seems to indicate that my brain isn't doing something right. And after all, the brain is part of the body. If it isn't working right it is just as much a disease as if your heart doesn't work right.
As far as, using it as an excuse. For me it is the opposite. Once I accepted that it was a disease. I quit trying to control my drinking, and knew I had to completely stop. I'm going on 7 months sober, and that is the longest I've ever made it! And for the first time I feel good about quitting. Because I know if I start again, it will keep getting worse and I just can't live like that anymore.
So there's my two cents
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 146
I used to disagree that alcholism was a disease. When I was in a detox center, I even told the doctor that I disagreed with the idea of alcoholism being a disease. I thought that it wasn't a disease, but it could lead to disease like cirrhosis, liver failure, stomach cancer, esophagus cancer, mouth cancer, intestinal cancer, etc.
But now I do tend to agree, but it's sort of a matter of semantics for me. Strictly the word disease, appears to mean "dis" - "ease". Dis = not. Therefore, disease = not at ease. Not at ease. And in that strict etymology of the word, I do think alcoholism is a disease, because it can certainly make you uneasy while in a hangover or detox.
But now I do tend to agree, but it's sort of a matter of semantics for me. Strictly the word disease, appears to mean "dis" - "ease". Dis = not. Therefore, disease = not at ease. Not at ease. And in that strict etymology of the word, I do think alcoholism is a disease, because it can certainly make you uneasy while in a hangover or detox.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 22
I think that debating whether or not alcoholism and addiction is a disease is like asking the enternal "why"...... and for me, ruminating on the "whys" gets me drunk. It's important for me to remember that even the concept of identifying conditions as "diseases" is a human construct, not divine. The fact of the matter: I suffer from a physical allergy and a mental obsession. Allergy in that I react differently to alcohol than normal drinkers, and when I pick up it triggers the mental obsession and I literally cannot put it down. Whether or not that is considered a disease is a moot point to me.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 541
Behavioral Health Recovery Management - Fayette Companies and Chestnut Health Systems
lots of info on this topic.
lots of info on this topic.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by starfieldroad 
I think that debating whether or not alcoholism and addiction is a disease is like asking the enternal "why"......
chasing after a poisonous snake that has bitten you instead of going to the hospital to get the antidote.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Lots of good comments...all, IMHO, valid.
It's a bit of a paradox... for me anyway. Assuming that only the alcoholic can diagnose his/her own disease, which is technically a subjective process... doesn't it then become difficult to apply a description (ie... a disease), which by scientific standards is, necessarily, an objective observation?
Does saying I have a disease ease the shame of my alcoholism and dependency? Well, yes, as long as I recover.... But if you apply the line of thinking that I always have the disease...ie it's "in the parking lot doing push ups", don't I risk some shame in that I am, then, "diseased"... Is the trade off worth it? For me it's not.
I have a nervous system that likes me to take mood and mind altering chemicals.... This nervous system, as I take more and more of them, likes me to take more and more of them.... In all other ways my nervous system is normal... And it's not diseased. I inherited it from my father, who was 24 years sober in AA when he died. My brother inherited that nervous system also, he's sober 23 years. I also inherited my father's hair and eye color as well as his overall appearance and personality characteristics....
My nervous system is relatively at peace now that I have been sober only 10 months... but old habits die hard and I have found that AA, the program and the fellowship, particularly the spiritual aspects, is very helpful to keep me from obsessing about alcohol...
FWIW
Mark
It's a bit of a paradox... for me anyway. Assuming that only the alcoholic can diagnose his/her own disease, which is technically a subjective process... doesn't it then become difficult to apply a description (ie... a disease), which by scientific standards is, necessarily, an objective observation?
Does saying I have a disease ease the shame of my alcoholism and dependency? Well, yes, as long as I recover.... But if you apply the line of thinking that I always have the disease...ie it's "in the parking lot doing push ups", don't I risk some shame in that I am, then, "diseased"... Is the trade off worth it? For me it's not.
I have a nervous system that likes me to take mood and mind altering chemicals.... This nervous system, as I take more and more of them, likes me to take more and more of them.... In all other ways my nervous system is normal... And it's not diseased. I inherited it from my father, who was 24 years sober in AA when he died. My brother inherited that nervous system also, he's sober 23 years. I also inherited my father's hair and eye color as well as his overall appearance and personality characteristics....
My nervous system is relatively at peace now that I have been sober only 10 months... but old habits die hard and I have found that AA, the program and the fellowship, particularly the spiritual aspects, is very helpful to keep me from obsessing about alcohol...
FWIW
Mark
Keep coming back!
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Calais, Maine
Posts: 25
Does it matter?
I struggled with this for awhile. Is alcoholism a disease, illness, addiction, ect... I finally figured out I only had to ask, "Do I have it?". The facts spoke for themselves:
1) I could not stay stopped when I desperately wanted to stay stopped.
2) I could not control the amount I drank once I started to drink.
Therefore:
My name is Larry and I AM an alcoholic!
Step 1 (check)
1) I could not stay stopped when I desperately wanted to stay stopped.
2) I could not control the amount I drank once I started to drink.
Therefore:
My name is Larry and I AM an alcoholic!
Step 1 (check)
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
