wiebe

Hi Gianna, I guess I counted wrong on the 18 days, so I'll blame it on the time zones. I was thinking about your post about how normal drinking seemed for most people, and they just have a few and that's it. But have you ever walked into a cassino and just won or lost some money and then go home and not think about anymore? Lots of people can't do that (I've known a few). There are all kinds of obsessions and addictions, and some forms hit you and others just don't. Most of the kids here in Holland will do anything for weed. Lots of them never have a cent to spare because of it, and if I had a bunch of it I'd throw it out or give it away. Yet the same people who get behind on their rent to buy weed look at me funny because I'm an alcoholic and they see that as being different (much worse). I don't see much of a difference in whether you are killing yourself with too much beer, drugs or food or . . . The result is the same. One thing I have noticed though is that frustration, anger, depression, and other negative thinking leads to binges in the addiction(s) a person has. A decision to be happy and optomistic seems to have powerful antiaddictive influence. Why drink if you're already happy? I've used so many things I've learned in these threads to beat the physical part of the addiction, and it's worked. I can stop anytime now, without dangerous physical withdrawl symptoms. Now It's the mental part of it, and I think counting your blessings every morning is a big part of that. Tommorow I'll take another run at staying sober using what I've learned in the last attempts. Hang in there Gianna, you're doing great and so will I soon.
Wiebe

Chy

Morning Weibe!

Hope your doing well, each post I see you getting stronger and stronger! How's the house coming along? How is your son-in-law doing? Still enjoying that morning coffee? I still worry about you, but know your doing it your way, I thought Dons post was very informative and hope you can use some of those tools. Have a beautiful day!

Jhana

Hi Weibe,

It's great to see your posts; you are very much a touchstone for me. I am still awed about the nature of this site, that one can find help from all parts of the globe. Thank God for the Internet!

You are certainly right about alcoholism just being one kind of addictive behavior. I have never obsessed much about losses gambling (not many of 'em anyway) just the horse races a few times. And drugs I have never been interested in although I have tried most of them at one time. Weathered the cocaine parties of the 80's-90's in NYC with no problem whatsoever, although I have had more than a few friends who lost everything to that addiction.

Changing one's mindset is so important, and it takes time. There is also, however a physical componenent to alcoholism addiction that is proven, so be mindful of that, and don't blame yourself too much for that being your addiction; you most probably did not have a choice. As for people's opinions, well, my Mother was mortified when I told her I had stopped drinking through AA. She was also a great drinking buddy, but the difference was for every watered down bourbon and water she was drinking, I was having a martini. She never did get comfortable with my being an alcoholic.

Well, I can't help that. And truthfully, as I said in some other post, if being an alcoholic means I get to "meet" people like yourself, and Chy, and Don and several others here whom I now think of as friends, I wouldn't trade it!

Great to log on today and see your post,
Gianna

wiebe

Hi Chy, I was just going to write a post back to you and Don. We went to the new house today and our new neighbours showed us theirs, absolutely beautiful. We were walking in the clouds on the way back. I met the new neighbours sober by the way (after the morning coffee). Chy, what in the world do you mean by making it with AA (THUS FAR)? I've used mostly the things Don has written me to get me as far as I've come, and if you can also use it that's great, I just don't understand "thus far". I could tell you a wonderful story about standing in front of the toilet this morning and wondering which end needed to be serviced first (and that's with a small amount of beer). I can't believe you're even tempted to go back to this wonderful lifestyle after being sober for more than 4 months. I look up to you for having acheived something I want so bad I can taste it, and you're my leader in this. Learn all you can to get stonger Chy, but try not to slip, for your family and your cyber family. We all count on you, especially me. Tommorow is going to be a sober Monday here, and it will be a great one.
Take care,
Wiebe

Don S

Hi, Wiebe,
Um, that toilet image is really going to stay with me today....it does bring back memories....

I know that Chy will respond to your comment, but I read the "thus far" as a kind of reflexive thing that some people do to acknowledge that we are all human and fallible. Kind of an extension of the "one day at a time" concept. Not as a signal that Chy is about to start drinking again, but as an expression of humility.

It reminds me of the born-again Christian (I'm not making any assumptions about you, Chy!) I worked closely with for a couple of years. We got along fine, but at the end of every single day I'd say "see you tomorrow," and he'd say, "yes, God willing." I always found that a little jarring. It seemed like a constant reminder of our own mortality. I mean, I realize that I could be hit by a bus at any moment, but I don't keep that in the forefront of my brain! However, it was part of his belief structure, and we never tried to impose our beliefs on each other.

I guess my feeling about "thus far" is this: I have changed my beliefs about alcohol, and thus far I don't think I'll be changing those beliefs back to thinking that drinking behavior is acceptable. Since I once believed that I could drink moderately (and had some pretty irrational beliefs about what "moderately" meant), it isn't totally outside the realm of possibility that I could gradually come to believe that again.

But I have tools in place to recognize those urges, even if they are slight, and I reinforce my commitment to sobriety daily simply by coming to places like this to talk about it. So I'd say the probability is very, very low that I'll resume drinking, and I do specific things to keep that probability very, very low. Nevertheless, "thus far" isn't a bad reminder that there are few absolutes in life.

One absolute for me is that sober Mondays ALWAYS beat hungover Mondays. Heck, we ought to make that a bumper sticker.

Here's hoping you resolved your toilet indecision....Talk to you tomorrow, Wiebe!
Don S

Chy

Thank you for answering for me Don! Your exactly right, and I'm mentally exhausted right now. Just spent the last 6 hours completing a small novel on my 4th step.

No worries Weibe, I'm not gonna go back to "that lifestyle" .... ohhhh yea.... thanks for the laugh, that mental image in front of the toilet was more than I could imagine... *LMAO*

You all be good!

wiebe

Good morning to both of you. I misinterpreted and overeacted to "thus far" because it has been begining to dawn on me fully that the problem will never be cured. It will definitely take solid planning and hard work to deal with it, and until recently I hadn't given it much serious thought. Time to start though.
Thanks for the posts
Wiebe

MootPoint

to ask "hows wiebe and gianna" and to say HI to Chy and Don. That toilet image will stick in my mind too

Chy

Big hugs you! Hope your doing well and the house is coming along! Hope those 'carpenter fairies" got there! Guess what? Finally finished step 4! Can ya believe it? *hugs*

bubblze30

OOOhhh Chy good for you I am slowing working into it . Was it as hard and painful as I fear?

Chy

Well not to bad bubblz, I cried a lot and was mentally exhausted when done, it took me 6 hours to finish! I had previously worked on it and prepared a rough draft so to speak. Good luck on yours, such a relief when done, hope my sponser approves

MootPoint

congrats Chy!

That's a big one!

Jhana

congratulations Chy-the 4th step is really important, and it changes over time in my experience. Time for me to do another one. Thank goodness it changes, because if it didn't we wouldn't be growing much.

Day 20 for me, and Monday, which usually sent me right to the bar. I had a strong urge that way about 2:30, as it has been a stressful day at work, but I got past it. Thanks for your comments about Mondays, Don.

And Moot, thanks for asking about me; so far so good. Don't think I will be wrapping myself around the toilet tonight...

Gianna

Chy

Gi Big hurray on day 20! *hugs* keep up the good work! Your right hopefully it will be a while before I have to re=visit that 4th step.

wiebe

Hi Chy, congradulations on the 4th step. It's always great to log in and see good things happening. You to Gianna. 20 days! And you made it through another rough spot, great. Things have settled back into the normal pattern here, with coffee in the mornings. I learned a lot from those 2 little sober streches and will be much more prepared next time. Reading about massive mood swings sure isn't the same as going through it. Also finding things to fill all those newly empty hours with will be a big progect. Lots to work on.
Take care,
Wiebe

Jhana

Hi Wiebe,

You will find plenty to fill that free time so enjoy it while you have it. I am overwhelmed with great things in life as an accumulation of all those sober years. It all needs dusting off and polishing, and right now the biggest danger in my daily life is getting really overwhelmed. I now have to make back all the money I spent in the last few months (which I could not afford). Fortunately I have freelance sources and I guess I will have to work overtime. Surprising how appalling that thought is when I could easily find 3-4 hours a day to drink.

As usual, it makes my day to see you here in the morning. How many hours difference is there from New York? 9-10?

Hugs,
Gianna

Chy

Good morning all!

Good to see you two, and where has Don been? I hope you enjoy that extra time now Weibe, as once your stable being sober your not going to have much time. I have found I am so busy that I hardly have time to sleep. I can't imagine anymore I had accomplished anything when drinking.

Gianna, I sure understand that catching up on the finances. I wish I had a nickel for every beer tab I cracked! I'd be well to do *S*. Oh.... the wasted money down the toilet, literally!

bubblze30

You just hang on tight and rememberr if you fall you have all of us to fall back on. Just knowing you are wanting it is great so just hang on tight

wiebe

Hi Gianna, I'm glad you still have stuff to dust off and polish up. Here it's going to have to be all new, there wasn't much left over. Financialy it's okay due to non work related things. Big point you made about begrudging time spent on useful things after throwing away 1000's of hours behind a drink. I think I'll print that out and hang it somewhere when we get the new place. At the worst times about 18 hrs. a day went into the "cause". By the way, I think the time difference is 6 hrs. At 6 AM on your clock it's noon here, I think. Sounds like you're making big solid gains putting your life back together. Chy, about all that money down the toilet, I've been arguing with my tiolet about that and I want my money back. If you watch CNN and see a story about a Dutch man being jailed for violence to his toilet you'll know who it is. I hate that thing. For the rest it's always good to hear how well you're doing and how life is keeping you busy. The next big step for me will be a program of good stuff to fill the time with. The new house will help with that, and my g f growls at the few beers I still buy. Bubblze, thanks for the post and I hope we all keep hanging on and going in the right direction.
All the best
Wiebe

Jhana

Wiebe,

Goodness you make me laugh!! Chy, let's us beat up those toilets too, whadya say?

Not much time to post at the moment-still catching up with the job, and then on to freelance.

Good luck with the house Weibe!

Gianna (day 22) yea