Anna

Am having a great day, thanks Chy.

Wow, what you said about remaining positive about sobriety and not remorseful about drinking - I think I should put that on a plaque on my wall. That's a great attitude!

Hugs and love, Anna

Jhana

Hi Chy and Don,

Thanks for your posts; I got home and straight away poured the beer out. Amazing how I hate to waste that money when the same amount spent on some frivolity doesn't bother me a bit.

Weibe, where are you? You are my benchmark...

So I can retire on my 13th day, safely, and prepare to start 14. It is a relief to find this place where I can be so truthful,
Gianna

wiebe

Hi everyone. Gianna, congradulations on 2 weeks. This weekend I took some time out to think about stuff. After reading this and other threads, I really wonder if my method of building towards sobriety fits here. From my point of view the stuff I learned here is fantastic and caused drastic changes. The mornings are now mine and I love them, whether I drink later or not. Lots of big and irreversible changes have been made (like eating) simply cause I LIKE them, no willpower required. I plan to continue to build on the positive things you've all helped me to achieve, without setting timeframes or planning drastic goals that may backfire. This sort of progress is stable and almost irreversable (in my opinion), but doing it this way seems to run contrary to everything I've read in the threads. Time will tell I guess.
Thanks for the support and the posts,
Wiebe

Jhana

Hi Wiebe,

Glad to hear from you and thanks for your congrats to me.

As far as I know, there is no one way to get sober-just whatever works for you. I have a very dear friend who has never been to an AA meeting, or done anything other than quit drinking-28 years ago. And I have friends who cling tenaciously to AA.

For my part, these forums have been a lifesaver; I can say things here in this truly anonymous realm that I could never bring myself to share at AA meetings.

The way I see it, the TRULY important thing for you is to never hesitate to seek help from others if you need it. I know that my first instinct when I go back to drinking is to hide it from the very people who can help me. It is perverse to think that just because someone has years of sobriety, they do not empathize with, and understand well, the vice grip this thing can hold us in. What I have found at this site is everything from soup to nuts-a well-balanced meal in other words, and a cross-section of experience that is invaluable to me-including YOUR experience!

Thanks for sharing it,
Gianna

Chy

Good morning all!

Anna, glad your doing so well! Your an inspiration to me, I hope to have as much time as you someday, yet I doubt I'll ever catch up to you

Gianna: Nice post to Weibe!

Weibe: Please don't give up on us. I know the norm here is AA, but it's not the only way. I sense you throwing in the towel, and accepting the fact, it's okay for you to have that afternoon beer. Sometimes the "mood" comes across the posts purely misunderstood, I hope this is the case with you. Maybe you should check out some of the other options for you. I know you don't like where you've been and you've worked so hard to come this far. Perhaps your just not ready and that's okay so long as you continue to make progress. You have to decide Weibe, and whatever you decide, you can always come here, I'll always be here to listen, perhaphs you can teach me a thing or two about staying sober, well you have anyway....

Hope you all have a beautiful sober day!

wiebe

Good morning to both of you. Yesterday was one of those days where everything just seemed black. Gianna, you just had one of those a couple of days ago and you made it through it. Great. And Chy, you warned me about those in the early stages. My moods have been all over the place and my body broke out in pimples and a cyst like a teener. Had a bloody nose twice. And no Chy there is no way I was thinking of throwing in the towel, that just isn't an option. I was just wondering if my posts here could be having a negative effect on some because they run cotrary to the tried and proven AA system. When we started a business here 10 years ago, in the beginning there were times when our debt exceded our assets by ten fold and keeping the sherrifs at bay was the biggest part of our job. Accountants ran away screaming. Logically that place could never have made it. It was impossible. So, rather than concentrate on the black hole it really was we focused on the small nucleus that did work. We could deliver product, and we enjoyed doing that. For the rest we "faked it til we made it". The place is worth millions today and in a few minutes I'm going to lunch with the present owner. Applied to alcohol, this is simply starting somewhere by creating a high point of the day, no matter how small it starts out as, and building on that. In another thread someone mentioned a bubblebath after supper. In my case it's coffee in the morning. I prefer it to starting out with beer and has become the high point of my day. Something I look forward to after I wake up. This one thing is something I could even recommend to sober alcoholics. Just consciously creating a little part of everyday that is just for you, when you do something for yourself that you would prefer even above drinking. It may be a small point but I think many people forget to do this. I did. In my case doing this one thing has brought me to a level of sobriety I haven't had for years, and I even started looking for work yesterday. Like real work, not at places where they keep beer in the fridge for me. Anyway, the boards have been a gift from God for me, and if differing opinions really are okay then of course I'd like to keep posting.
Have a great day
Wiebe

Jhana

Hi Weibe, Chy and all,

Weibe, it is great to hear from you! Of course you can have differing opinions! That is what makes this place so interesting and helpful. AA comes up a lot because it is overwhelmingly the way most people stay comfortably sober, and I emphasize the "comfortably" here. Goodness knows, I am a verteran of countless AA meetings, and through that program I have met many wonderful people, and had great times socially, as well as benefited from the immense collective knowledge one encounters in meetings. That said, until recently, we must remember, AA was the only game in town where you could get, and share, the kind of information we are all accessing at this site. What a resource SoberRecovery and other places like it are for us.

When I, in great desparation, found this on the internet at 3 AM that awful morning 2 weeks ago, it was like a godsend. I had promised myself I would go to a meeting the next day, but I am betting I wouldn't have made it. I would have had an awful hangover, been terribly angry at myself, and the pile of work waiting on my desk would have driven me out to "lunch" at 11:30. (That is, of course, if I had waited till 11:30).

Instead, I felt like I had friends here at 3 AM, and I was able to tough it out at work (by logging on here) and make it through the day. While I still love AA, and go to a regular meeting, I hasten to add that this is now my major sustenance. Early on when I first got sober, it was the "meeting after the meeting"-which is to say, a group of us repairing to a coffee shop, that kept me sober. I have not found that again since I came back to New York, and I have missed it. Here it is, and I am fortunate to have found it.

So you keep telling us what you are doing, complain if you like, argue, even go away if you have to (I personally will miss you a great deal), but many of us have obviously come to value your presence here.

With warm regards,
Gianna
Day 15 begins...

Chy

Mornin Weibe,

Sorry you had to experiance the "doom of gloom" day. They are definity no fun. It's a bit perplexing how your body responds physically to these mood swings isn't it. I had rashes and terrible itching. I am glad you will keep coming back, I am glad you have found something you enjoy, your mornings. I too spend the morning for myself and quite time. I wake up at 5:30am which is something I'd never do before, I still laugh at myself when getting up that early. I spend an hour at the gym which has become my meditation time, and come home have my diet-coke and cigerette, ( yea, I know after the gym I shouldn't be smoking, just struggling with this still), and I feel I am charged for work. So I understand when you say a simple thing like enjoying your morning coffee is a big accomplishment, it is!

I think it's great your looking for work, it will give you a few less hours in the day to be tempted, providing they don't keep beer in the fridge! I understand this it is a European thing I think, my husband used to tell me about them having a shot and beer in the morning when we lived in Germany.

Better go, kids are a bit restless today in class! *hugs* Glad your gonna keep coming back!

wiebe

Hi Gianna, I guess we all look forward to posting on the boards everyday. Like you said about the anonymity here, it really helps to blow off some steam with people who understand what you are talking about. I'm sure it helps to keep all of us focused in the right direction. Chy, the trouble with the first days is how absolutely REAL the stuf feels. The first nights sober I really thought that our bed must have been infested with fleas or something, the imagination is just as real as reality. I remmember thinking in the morning that if there actually were bugs, they would still be there in the morning but they weren't. The depressions seem just as real. Urg. Building up a knowledge of how lack of a drug can shift perceptions seems vital to recovery. If you don't know you're walking in a hall of mirrors the natural reaction is to go nuts. By the way, as far as I know drinking at work is regarded about the same all over the world, while attitudes to booze in general may be a bit softer here, but that's because no-one would accept being drunk as an excuse for anything. One time a barmaid took my last beer and dumped it in the sink and said I was to drunk to drink any more. I was furious at being treated like that, so I did the European thing and told her I'd come by the next day to give her a piece of my mind. She said no problem, she'd be there. I did go by the next day and she greeted me with a big smile and a full beer, on the house. Urg, but that's how it goes here, and from what I remmember of the bars in Canada and the States it's a bit different. The police also treat drunks with respect as long as the rules are followed. As for a real difference in attitudes? Asides from a lack of fear of drunk people I can't think of any. The people I worked for hired me cause I make them some money. It's that simple, and I've never been fired, ever. A simple capitalistic concept has kept the beer money flowing for years. It is also what makes quitting so bloody hard. Like you Chy, I can function like this (if you can call it that) and I don't even get hangovers. The Demon keeps me alive enough to feed itself. All I can do at the moment is concentrate on the positive stuff and keep the momentum going. Coffee in the mornings, maybe a bit of work in the afternoons, and keeping the final goal in mind at all times. It's worked so far and I'll keep on keeping on.
Thanks for the posts,
Wiebe

Chy

On a positive note Weibe, for the first time in many years your begining to feel. That's why we experiance depression. We've numbed our feeling with alcohol for so long we've never given ourselves a chance to naturally feel. Oh yea! I thought I had bed bugs too!

S

Don S

I hope not! Remember, Wiebe, I'm not a practitioner of AA. I've used SMART Recovery tools to achieve sobriety, and those are what I've primarily been explaining to you as you've come along. Actually, it's been great to see the ecumenical approach as various folks here have been talking--I've learned a lot, and it's all working. I'll reply to the specifics of your post later, but I just wanted to get in my .02 on this issue.
Thanks for the post, and talk to you later!
Don S

Jhana

Hi Don,

What are SMART Recovery tools?

Gianna

wiebe

Hi Chy, ya being sober for more than 2 days turns into a real rollercoaster ride. After years of being numb it's logical. Don, of course I know you use the SMART program, I use the things you told me every day and they have gotton me past the physical part of the addiction. Now it's time to brace for what Chy has mentioned so often, which is just plain an irrational uneasiness about dealing with life sober. That will come too. I'm still getting used to sober mornings (cold hands and jumpiness etc.) but it feels more natural and pleasant with each passing day. Gianna, if you are starting day18, congradulations, and have a great one.
Wiebe

Jhana

Hi Weibe,

Did I count wrong? No, I think its Day 17. Great to still see you here!! Living life sober? The frightening thing I found when I quit drinking for those 13 years is that most people do it that way. I was appalled to notice how many people didn't drink, for no reason other than they didn't want to. I might as well have been on an alien planet. We seek out our own and get a disproportionate idea of the world. And believe me, the only people who pay attention to whether you drink or not are alcoholics. Whoops, correction. That is to say, if we are sober. If we are drunk we might as well be naked walking down the street for all the amusement and horror we provide to the world.

You feel like a pal, really glad to see your post this morning!

Gianna

bubblze30

Happy 24 hours!!! That is one of the greatest things you could acomplish. I am so very proud of you and you 24 hours. You hold on to that with all your might. Remember we learn from our relapse they are not a requirement but part of recovery. So hold on tight Keep it in the day all we have is 24 hour to worry about each day.

Don S

Hi, Gianna,
Here's a summary of SMART I wrote for another forum board.

When you go on the internet to look for help in dealing with your drinking, as I did in 1999, you bring your own notions about terms like recovery and alcoholism, and the process may seem difficult or even impossible. The emotions about personal relations, the remorse for previous behavior, and the side effects of anxiety or depression--all of these feelings mix and make it harder to
make decisions and take action. You can feel overwhelmed.

I believe that SMART principles are pretty simple:
You control your own actions, consciously or not. Beliefs lead to actions and behavior, and
irrational beliefs can lead to unhealthy behavior.
SMART is based on REBT:
Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy, the premise of which is that changing beliefs and thoughts
can change emotions and behavior. Drug use is a behavior which can be changed, not a disease.

Well, the plan is also pretty simple. The program is: quit drinking, deal with the physical
and mental consequences of that, develop a healthier attitude that prevents you from
wanting to drink again, and move on with your life!

What's so hard? I believe that most of the difficulty comes from:
1. not acknowledging that the consequences of drinking outweigh the benefits.
2. our perception that it is going to be impossible to quit.
3. not being prepared to deal with the reasons that we drank in the first place.
4. not having a plan in place for dealing with urges.
5. not changing the patterns and routines that encouraged our earlier behavior.

There are SMART tools, with catchy abbreviations that make them easy to remember.
Three of the most important are:
1. CBA = Cost Benefit Analysis. This helps us overcome the resistance to taking that first step.
It's a simple process in which you write down the costs and benefits of substance abuse, in detail.
Helpful with (1) above.

2. USA = Unconditional Self Acceptance. This helps us overcome the self-downing and
discouragement that make us believe we are bad, and that our drug use is a sign of weak
character or bad morals. USA is a principle: You are not your behavior or actions. This can be an
important step in overcoming (2) above.

3. ABC is a tool that helps us deal with emotional distress in a systematic way. A = the
Activating Event that distresses us; C = the Consequences of that event; B = the Belief(s) that led
to the consequences; D = how you Dispute those beliefs and make a plan of action to overcome
them, and E = the new Effects of successfully disputing the beliefs. Many people do this as a
C-A-B-D-E, or just identify the B and skip directly to the D. ABC's can help with day-to-day
upsets involved in (3) above.

Changing your language can be a clever way to change your beliefs. Recognizing and avoiding
absolute terms such as 'must, should, ought, always, never, need, can't' can help you avoid the
beliefs that derive from them: 'I must have that, she shouldn't have done that, I need a drink*¢‚Ǩ|.'
Once you say that you 'prefer' rather than 'need' something, then it's easier to do without it. Try
this one on your teenagers! Mine roll their eyes now, but they say (with that exaggeration unique to teens) "yeah, Dad, I'd PREFER that. Now, can I have the money?"

SMART literature has lots of information to help with planning for urges and making those lifestyle changes. SMART is science-based, so understanding the biochemistry of drug use can be helpful.
Learning tricks about self-control, disputing irrational beliefs, coping with urges, finding
diversions, acquiring motivation--all are tools that help you make your own plan.

A good example is DISARM = Destructive Self-Talk Awareness and Refusal Mode (ok, it doesn't
really spell 'disarm', but it's easier to remember than 'dstaarm'): learn to identify both the rational and irrational beliefs you have that lead to drinking, then vigorously dispute the irrational ones and reinforce the rational ones. Advertisers spend billions of dollars to impring beliefs in our brains, and persuade us to buy their products. "Weekends were made for Michelob," right? Well, you create your own advertising slogans for sobriety, and you repeat them.

A great, simple reminder of how to make progress in the face of adversity is PPP, which stands for Practice, Patience, and Persistence--all characteristics that help us stay the course.

SMART meetings, as with any recovery program, provide peer support, guidance from trained advisers, and help you practice techniques. They can help you find the motivation to quit, get you over hurdles, and build your self-confidence. Meetings of any kind can be a great source of support (although I personally never attended any, and have heard people here and on other boards describe meeting situations which sounded TO ME as though they were actually counterproductive).

There are face-to-face meetings in some areas, and an extensive schedule of online meetings. There is a forum board which many find useful; it was my primary support system for achieving sobriety. But you don't 'have' to attend meetings forever (or at all, for that matter). Remember, the S in SMART stands for Self. You are in control of your own sobriety.

'Scientific research has shown that the people who have successfully recovered, regardless of the
method, all have three basic traits:
1. Commitment to sobriety.
2. Change in lifestyle.
3. They rehearse and plan for urges.'

Don S

Don S

Good morning, Wiebe! It's a beautiful almost-fall morning here today at sunrise--we're going to get to about 96F today, but the mornings are in the "nippy" mid-50's. It'll be nice to see some rain--probably 5 - 6 weeks away now-- to clear the harvest-season dust--they've just finished shaking the almonds, and the walnuts are next, so there's a fine layer of dust over everything. The acres and acres of canning tomatoes, pinto beans, sunflowers, and rice are all harvested, and the field corn is drying on the stalk. So it's a dusty but pretty time of year.

Anxiety about dealing with life sober is one of the most common things people mention as an impediment to abstinence. This implies a belief that drinking helps us cope with stress, anxiety, depression, etc. If you think about it, drinking postpones that coping. Yes, your brain feels some relief while the alcohol is there, but your emotions are more raw and volatile when your body is going through the ups and downs of drinking behavior.

But you have the tools to deal with stress and anxiety. In fact, the way you dealt with drinking is a way of dealing with emotional stress factors. Planning, working on things a little at a time, remembering to congratulate yourself on your accomplishments--no matter how small-- can all apply to dealing with upsets.

I like to think about it the way I garden. I have a huge garden area around the house, which always has far more in the way of tasks than I can accomplish at once. So, I can stand around and fret about how long it'll take me to get all the weeds pulled, or I can just start pulling them. Thirty minutes a day of fretting won't get anything done. Thirty minutes a day of weeding will gradually make the garden more beautiful. Reminding myself that there is beauty even amongst the weeds will keep my attitude more positive.

Just as with drinking, there are beliefs which form the basis of the things you are anxious about. We can't control everything around us, but we can control the way we react to events and people. The simplest first step is to recognize when we are making emotional demands (they "shouldn't" do that), or are "awfulizing" situations (things "always" go wrong, that person "never" treats me right). Just rephrasing our belief more accurately and without the use of absolute terms can reduce the volatility of our emotions.

Another step is to deal with repeated emotional upset as if it were an addiction. Look at when you are dwelling on some upset, how often, what you're doing when you are thinking about something. This may be hard to do, but try to acknowledge the benefit you feel you are getting from allowing it to fester. Sometimes we have selfish reasons for continuing to be angry or upset about something. Or see if there's a pattern to when and where the upsets happen or come to mind. Planning and practicing for those initial upsets can keep the mood from spiraling into something more profound--just as with drinking.

"See the spark before the flame" is an expression which is useful. It's easier to face discouragement early than after the mood has deepened. We can divert ourselves, we can state motivating sayings (out loud: "don't think poisonous thoughts" is one of my favorites).

We can get up and go do something which distracts us or which gives us pleasure. Being physically active is sometimes new after years of couch-potato drinking, but moderate exercise does directly elevate our mood.

There are plateaus in sobriety, Wiebe, and you sounded a couple of days ago as though you'd reached one. That's no reason to be discouraged. Where were you 6 months ago? Where do you want to be 6 months from now? Sometimes taking the longer view is helpful.

Talk to you soon, and thanks for posting! You and Gianna, and Anna, and Chy are all part of my daily sunrise!
Don S

Chy

Don Big Thanks!

I have often wondered myself about the SMART program. This is a very logical approach and makes a whole lot of sense to me. I really appreciate the info. Though I have been successful with AA (thus far) I can't see the harm in implementing some of the SMART tools into my recovery! We are all individuals and I am a firm believer that there is more than one way to skin a cat!

A double whamy of recovery so to speak. Thanks so much for the info.

Chy

Weibe hoping your going to have a wonderful day! Keep smiling!

Chy

Gianna!!! Keep up the good work! Your doing awesome!