rhnorment

who wants to attempt recovery for the first time. This person has come to me for help and, of course, I want to help. But my experience with recovery has been so demoralizing and frustrating, I'm tempted to deliver him what I deem a controversial response. Would love to get the thoughts of others on this board who may have had a similar experience to what I write below....

BACKGROUND:

From January 1993 up until 32 days ago, I drank myself to blackout every night. Of course, it took more and more to "accomplish the task," eventually requiring in over 1.5 liters of vokda each night.

I've been to 4 recovery centers in 2.5 years. I relapsed the day I left each one of them. Many of us have done the same, and the demoralization, shame, frustration, and guilt becomes overbearing, which leads to more relapse. It's taken me 2.5 years to get 32 days sober. That's insane.

Those 2.5 years trying to get sober were far worse for me than when I was drinking like I wanted to. I've let countless people down, mainly my wife and children, who begged me to recover, but to no avail. DEMORALIZATION!

My friend drinks the same amount as I did when I quit for (hopefully) the last time -- except he has about 5 more years of drinking on his resume than I do.

MY PROPOSAL

Of course, I will help this gentleman. At a minimum, I will recommend a in-patient detox. If he wants a 30 day in-patient post-detox, that's even better.

But I feel it's my responsibility to make him aware of the enormous challenge he will face the rest of his life. Too many recovery centers make patients feel like they are cured after 30 days. I want him going in eyes wide open. I want him to be aware that the odds are stacked heavily against him fully recovering (15% / 85% is the ratio I'm aware of).

After whatever detox or inpatient program he chooses, I will gladly take him to AA meetings with me and introduce him to some of the many AA friends I have made.

THE DILEMMA

Before trying to get sober 2.5 years ago, everyone told me I had an alcohol problem. I replied that alcohol is my solution, not my problem. Alcohol was my coping mechanism for the stresses of every day life. Without alcohol, I could very well be in an asylum somewhere.

Here is the real issue: like I wrote earlier, I felt much better about myself before I tried to quit. The last 2.5 years have been hell for me. You have so many people betting on your success that you fell like scum when you fail them.

I honestly feel like I should not have tried to quit until I reached the low I reached 31 days ago. I know that sounds crazy, but I can't be the only recovering addict that feels this way!?!?!!!???

How can I relay (or should I relay) that message to my friend: you have to be absolutely willing to do whatever it takes to maintain sobriety. And IF you fail, you are going to feel miserable, worse than you did before.

I know this is a complex (hopefully not rhetorical) question, but I am curious of others have felt the same and how they have conveyed that message to friends asking for help.

Thanks in advance!

/rhn

sugErspun

I don't see anything complex about it at all.

You have been trying to do something impossible - keep yourself sober. If you are like me, it isn't possible to do. Fighting isn't the solution, a firm resolve gets me nowhere. There is more in letting go (there are some fancy phrases around this thought...but I don't want to offend anyone). Not to mention that the tough times and pain we go through are exactly what get someone to that point of surrender. Is the alternative advice - "Keep drinking till I think you are serious." ??? That ain't gonna help either.

It is not your responsibility to get anyone else sober either, look what "hell" it has been just trying to stay sober yourself...can you imagine trying to brunt the weight of another's sobriety as well??? C'mon.

Point him in the right direction, it's all any of us can really do.

justanothrdrunk

All you can do is share your experience. And if that has been your experience, do not hesitate.

The important thing (for anyone) is that it is made clear it's YOUR experience and not necessarily everyone's.

rhnorment

Thanks for the responses thus far.

In my last inpatient rehab, 28 of 30 relapsed within 2 weeks, including me. That's no good. That's why I want to share my experience, as my fellow poster wrote above.

This thread is probably not relevant, so CarolD, please delete if you want.

I'm more interested in hearing from people that felt they were better off before they attempted recovery for the first time, and what they went through to feel better recommending recovery to other newcomers. Because it can be hell to newcomers. And I know I am not alone feeling this (I hope!). :-)

/rhn

tiburon88

Just to let you know I relate to your post almost 100%. It seemed like I was almost better off drinking every day slow and steady then go on the once in a while horrible binge. I relapsed weeks after leaving my first treatment program also. I try not to focus on the dismal odds of recovery though. Best of luck.


tib

rhnorment

It's not about my recovery, per se, because I'm educated about recovery and know the odds. This thread is about how to be honest with a friend who wants to try recovery for the first time.

I guess I'm being picky by looking for people who wished they had not tried recovery until a later date (or really, a lower bottom). Maybe it's me biding more time (I am not drinking now, but perhaps looking for an excuse).

Recovery sucks. I am dry, but not sober. I guess I am reaching out to others in the same boat, but my reaching out has become rhetorical.

Certainly, there are others...

chip

I agree with sugErspun: point your friend in the right direction. When you first started recovery, how would you have responded if someone painted a bleak picture for you?

You are doing very well to have 32 days...any day without a drink is a success for someone with this disease.

Perhaps you can introduce your friend to someone who can encourage him and give him some hope. We don't always have it in us, and that is when we pass the baton on to one of our fellow recovering addicts.

I hope you can find some hope and encouragement as well.

It isn't easy. It can be hell. Reality can really suck. I think we all need people to be positive about recovery AND a shoulder to cry upon when it sucks.

Once, someone approached me. I didn't think I could be of much help because I was too deep in my own problems. I introduced this individual to someone else in recovery who had the energy to help. I think this was the right thing to do, and I urge you to consider doing something similar if you don't have it in you.
chip

laurie6781

Here's my bottom and you can't get any lower than this:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-my-story.html

As to what to tell your friend? Tell him you are STRUGGLING with sobriety. Tell him that early recovery is a STRUGGLE.

Any recovery program, Rehab, AA, SMART, etc is for those that 'want' it more than they 'want' to drink. Any recovery requires EXTREMELY HARD WORK. All any of the programs can do if give you 'tools' for sobriety. It is what one does with those 'tools' that means sobriety or more drinking.

If your friend 'thinks' he is ready, then tell him to "go for it." His experience DOES NOT have to be your experience.

J M H O

May you both find and enjoy the life I have found!!!!!!! It will be beyond your WILDEST DREAMS!!!!!!!

Love and hugs,

Mark75

How can you really say recovery sucks with only 32 days. Of course it does. How about finding someone at your meeting to talk with him. Just let him know your too early to speak objectively about it... Or that you are too close to him, or something. Someone at your group that has what he (you) want should do the 12 step????

Maybe this doesn't really answer the question straight on, but I'm glad I didn't get such a dismal message my first days....

Mark

joedris

In order to get sober, you have to want to quit more than you want to drink. We usually choose to try and quit when we reach a "bottom", but that level is different for everyone. Some of us have high bottoms, some reach the bottom and start digging. All we can do is to share our experiences with one another in hopes that it will help achieve sobriety.

And there is nothing to feel ashamed about if you relapse. Most of us do, a lot do so many times. Sobriety is tough to achieve. Just keep going back to AA meetings. Bring the body and the mind will follow. It took me 3 years to get one year of sobriety, but I kept going to meetings because in them I saw hope. And if I stopped the meetings then I knew that I would never quit drinking. So give it time. One good thing is that it does get easier as time goes by.

flutter

The beauty of our diversity is this.. we all have a different path.

I could never say "do this and you'll feel better" "do that and you'll relapse" "try this and it will work".. I can only offer my experience, what worked for me, and hope that something as small as even that.. hope.. lights a fire in someone to find THIER way.

Yeah, 'recovery' sucked.. at first, until I started recovering. I have never felt better, or been happier in my entire life, and this sure as heck doesn't suck!

I think it's great for you to share experience.. but not advice.. ya know? We all have our own way, and for whatever reason we're lucky because there are a lot of different things that have worked for different people. Sure someone can get sober and be miserable for life.. heck someone can never touch alcohol in their life and still be miserable for life. I know I'm not, and I'm always happy to share what has worked for me, maybe it will keep one person thinking about THIER way, for THEIR sobriety, and keep the drink off their lips tonight. I dunno

Freedom1990

Honestly, that isn't a message I would share with anyone, but that's me.

Was early recovery difficult for me? You bet, and often it sucked.

However, the people in AA did tell me there was a solution, and I could recover.

That was the most important message that I ever truly heard.

I haven't found it necessary to take a drink since August 5th of 1990, and for that I am incredibly grateful.

Ago

All we can do is share our own experience.

My experience is different then yours.

Early sobriety was easy for me, once I "gave up" and began attending meetings

I've had difficulty with "long term" sobriety, I've "gone out" or drank twice in 17 years, I've also had difficulty with codependency/family issues in Sobriety.

I have no difficulty in dealing with disaster, or relationship issues as far as they impact "my sobriety" because I'm good at those, they are comfortable, what I personally have difficulty with is when my life is good, I am more "comfortable" with disaster and relationship drama, so if I am not careful, I will go create those.

For me, what I have learned, is find someone who "has what I want", then I "go where they go and do what they do" and I ask a LOT of questions. I look specifically for people who have direct experience with what I want.

How did you get through this? What did you do? What didn't work? What did?

If I want to get sober, I look for someone with long term sobriety who "attracts" me, who appears comfortable in their own skin.

Family of Origin Issues...same thing, ditto with relationships.

Honesty is one of the most important things we share in recovery, as long as we say, "this was my experience", as in "this is what happened for me" not "this is my opinion" or "this is what I think you should do"

His experience may be different then yours.

Your experience will be your greatest asset later on, when dealing with a newcomer that is going through what you are going through now. You will be able to reach him when no one else can.

shaun00

Give the guy the local AA help line number and get them to visit him on a twelve step call.

And if your going to tell him how hard not drinking is or was........why dont you tell him what is likely to happen if he continues to drink.....

alcoholic death ain't pretty.......or pain free..as far as I'm aware.

ask yourself this............will he benefit from your experience?

If not i personally wouldn't give it.....my purpose is to help others recovery from alcoholism NOT to give them an experience that at worst will keep them drinking and at best..........well there ain't a best...

OR.......you could encourage him to come to Sr for support.

this post is NOT meant to be harsh.........but i do think that you need to think carefully how you approach this.

i never approach newcomers and tell them how hard it was to get sober

I always start with how hard my drinking was.........

good luck id be interested to hear how you got on.......

god be with him and you................trucker

sfgirl

I agree with everyone else. I really believe that sharing your true experience with someone else is your gift. Even if you think for some reason your experience isn't the "right" one, you still should share it all the same because it is just as valid. However, you don't need to convey it as a universal experience.

I do think though that people like to sugar coat recovery. I think it is a mistake and an impediment to people in early recovery. I drank a lot less that you and at day 32 I was pretty unhappy. I was still pretty unhappy at month three. I didn't really get any sort of really joyous feeling until about month six and that still waxes and wanes. For me, it is the addict in us that wants sobriety to be the quick ticket to happiness and it is not quick. It is a journey that takes time. We drank for a long time. We have a lot to learn— new coping mechanisms, feeling feelings, living through discomfort, managing cravings, etc. And those things do not come instantly. Personally, I also had to wade through a lot of bad feelings early on that alcohol had been masking. In a way I think that it is good to hear that it is not all balloons and smiles in sobriety because then you are less likely to relapse when happiness does not immediately appear. I just think that it is important to balance hearing those experiences with the experiences of old timers and others, even some new comers, that walk into serenity and peace with sobriety something that using never could have brought them.

Pagekeeper

Of course early sobriety is hell. What did you expect? You've been numbing and escaping for the past X amount of years via a poison that causes depression, anxiety, severe withdrawls (that can be deadly), and what I can only describe as psychotic behavior. Not too sound ugly, but get real. You can't just do that to your body and mind and have no consequences. You're experiencing the consequences of your alcoholic behavior.

The good news is, it will gradually get better if you are patient. For myself, putting down the bottle wasn't enough. In fact, once I put down the bottle my real problem surfaced--how the hell do I live in this world without a drink?

You say you are going to AA. In AA, we have a program of recovery, one that helps to teach us how to live in this world without a drink. Find someone in your group who can walk you through our program. There are other programs of recovery, but AA has worked for me. It's impossible for me to believe it at times, but today I enjoy having a sober mind.

I wish you the best.

Oh, and as far as your friend goes--sounds to me like you need to keep the focus on getting better yourself.

TryingisDying

YOUR RIGHT...alcohol is the solution....to the mind that is the problem......I think you should just put it out there the way it is....It is not easy...or noone would have a problem really.

keithj

AA's Big Book has a whole chapter devoted to working with others. It's got some general guidance that, as long as I follow it, has worked for me and many others.

Philly

Like others have said I think you should share your experience. This is my first time trying to quit and it is experiences like yours that deters me from relapsing. I am imagining it is the guilt that kills you and makes it worse. Do I wish I would have drank some more before getting sober absolutely but that is what our alcohlic brain tells us. My bottom was falling down drunk on several occasions along with black outs/morning drinking/went to work 2 times after drinkin. I could have went so much lower. The problem with alcohol is someones bottom might be jail/death/killing someone else. So to avoid that the sooner the better. Good luck with you and your friend. You gained alot of knowledge in the 2 and 1/2 years you have tried.

Puddy

Give him this message -

If he does the Steps out of the Big Book with a sponsor, he will have probably have a 75% chance of recovery. Statistically speaking.

If he does not work the steps, and he is a real alcoholic, he will have maybe, at best, a 1% chance at any meaningful sobriety. Again, statistically speaking.

If he is not a real alcoholic, he will be able to stop or moderate given sufficient reason (ill health, falling in love, judges orders, etc).

The only way to know if you are a real alcoholic is to go through the Big Book with someone who has been through it.

Meanwhile, he can spin dry for the next 28 days in rehab and get his head clear.

And you my friend - time to get working on the steps!