ugh. meetings
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Originally Posted by McGowdog 
Hey crzy! It's deja vu for me this thread. But now that you say you still have cravings after 13 months? That is weird.
But fret not! You sound like you may identify with Dr Bob more than Bill W.
Could you please do me one favor, and read or reread Dr Bob's story which is the 1st of the stories in the back section of the Big Book? It's called Dr Bob's Nightmare and is here if you don't have it handy.
This dude has a great story and talks about what you describe. It's very rare, I think, but he claims he had a "craving" for about 2 and a half years;
"Unlike most of our crowd, I did not get over my craving for liquor much during the first two and one half years of abstinence."
Now, I'm not gonna argue you or Bob what craving means vs what mental obsession means because I'm not even like you or Bob in that respect anyway.
But you do seem like him and this may be rare.
Hope that helps.
But fret not! You sound like you may identify with Dr Bob more than Bill W.
Could you please do me one favor, and read or reread Dr Bob's story which is the 1st of the stories in the back section of the Big Book? It's called Dr Bob's Nightmare and is here if you don't have it handy.
This dude has a great story and talks about what you describe. It's very rare, I think, but he claims he had a "craving" for about 2 and a half years;
"Unlike most of our crowd, I did not get over my craving for liquor much during the first two and one half years of abstinence."
Now, I'm not gonna argue you or Bob what craving means vs what mental obsession means because I'm not even like you or Bob in that respect anyway.
But you do seem like him and this may be rare.
Hope that helps.
will post again tomorrow...
mergirl
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Paradise
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Your dog is ADORABLE by the way! We have a pretty big group of bully lovers in the dog lovers thread. I saw a therapist twice after I quit drinking. She pointed me in the direction of codependency, and working through books from the library and the daily thread here I began to realize that I had a fairly distorted image of myself and how life "should" be. I am making real progress on being more stable and content.
I guess my advice to you is, keep looking for something that works. Try therapy, codie books, talk to your doctor, anything, til something clicks. It can and does get better when you find out how to fix your inner dialog.
I guess my advice to you is, keep looking for something that works. Try therapy, codie books, talk to your doctor, anything, til something clicks. It can and does get better when you find out how to fix your inner dialog.
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well i read the "Bobs nightmare" chapter last night, and it was very insightful...thank you Mcgowdog,
i have gotton several books from the library, on anxiety, and alcohol, i have talked to my dr. and she has adjusted my meds, so we'll see how that goes...
IMO, and i may get some staggering poor responses, but to me, meetings seem somewhat "cult" like, and it seems that people there, in AA, feel that they are "better than" someone who is sober on their own...like there is no other way of remaining sober, UNLESS you are in AA.. this is just my opinion, but i do still appreciate advice and experiences from others, AA or anyone else
i have gotton several books from the library, on anxiety, and alcohol, i have talked to my dr. and she has adjusted my meds, so we'll see how that goes...
IMO, and i may get some staggering poor responses, but to me, meetings seem somewhat "cult" like, and it seems that people there, in AA, feel that they are "better than" someone who is sober on their own...like there is no other way of remaining sober, UNLESS you are in AA.. this is just my opinion, but i do still appreciate advice and experiences from others, AA or anyone else
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I think 'sailorjohn' made a cogent point that may have gotten overlooked later in the thread.
He wrote: "Acceptance is the key."
I struggle with acceptance way more than admission. I know I am an alcoholic, but I have a very hard time accepting that I am an alcoholic.
To cite an example similar to one you shared above. I have a very difficult time accepting the fact that I can no longer enjoy one of the greatest pleasures in life: having a cookout in my backyard with friends and friends of my children and just having a few beers to lighten up. It really makes me angry.
So, I know exactly how you feel and why it makes you angry.
I still struggle with acceptance, and probably will until I can finally experience the joy of sobriety that the old-timers rave about. I'm still looking for it.
/rhn
He wrote: "Acceptance is the key."
I struggle with acceptance way more than admission. I know I am an alcoholic, but I have a very hard time accepting that I am an alcoholic.
To cite an example similar to one you shared above. I have a very difficult time accepting the fact that I can no longer enjoy one of the greatest pleasures in life: having a cookout in my backyard with friends and friends of my children and just having a few beers to lighten up. It really makes me angry.
So, I know exactly how you feel and why it makes you angry.
I still struggle with acceptance, and probably will until I can finally experience the joy of sobriety that the old-timers rave about. I'm still looking for it.
/rhn
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Colorado
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Thanks, crzy.
No, I think you may be right. Not that AA is a cult, but that some in the rooms have that attitude. I don't speak for them. It's not like that at all in my home group because those guys who I work to emulate just are so open and let us know up front, there's the door. You're not obligated to us and vice versa... They say, "We're not the only show in town. We're the BEST show in town, but not the only show in town." Now that may sound arrogant, but for me, an alcoholic maddog, it's true.
At those other meetings where they "talk" about doing steps, they hold their chins up and say this stuff to everybody like it applies to everybody. They don't differentiate between one person and the next. We look at how hard you drank, yes, and to what extent you may need Divine Intervention to recover. But those others I see who don't have a current experience in the steps just seem to need you to be like them. If you're not like them, it's a threat to their own identification and they don't exist anymore. They go into fear and they defend it with anger.
All that to say this, they have a mere 1st Step issue. I did for something like 19 years! Now I have a 1st Step and people who know me in AA would vouch for me I think... I'm recovered. And I want to help others.
Now the cult thing, McSnopesDog says, FALSE.
And you can google and research that on your own. There are some places out on the WWW that HATE AA. No joke. Orange Papers comes to mind. But the problem with labelling AA a cult is this; it makes people's lives better, not worse. The people who don't get sober in AA and suffer and/or eventually die, you can't really blame all of that on AA. But if it was a cult, who's the one at the top running the show and stealing something from everybody else? It's just not structured like that. It's an upside-down pyramid with the power to the people! It's progressive
Check out the 12 Traditions a little more closely.
No, I think you may be right. Not that AA is a cult, but that some in the rooms have that attitude. I don't speak for them. It's not like that at all in my home group because those guys who I work to emulate just are so open and let us know up front, there's the door. You're not obligated to us and vice versa... They say, "We're not the only show in town. We're the BEST show in town, but not the only show in town." Now that may sound arrogant, but for me, an alcoholic maddog, it's true.
At those other meetings where they "talk" about doing steps, they hold their chins up and say this stuff to everybody like it applies to everybody. They don't differentiate between one person and the next. We look at how hard you drank, yes, and to what extent you may need Divine Intervention to recover. But those others I see who don't have a current experience in the steps just seem to need you to be like them. If you're not like them, it's a threat to their own identification and they don't exist anymore. They go into fear and they defend it with anger.
All that to say this, they have a mere 1st Step issue. I did for something like 19 years! Now I have a 1st Step and people who know me in AA would vouch for me I think... I'm recovered. And I want to help others.
Now the cult thing, McSnopesDog says, FALSE.
And you can google and research that on your own. There are some places out on the WWW that HATE AA. No joke. Orange Papers comes to mind. But the problem with labelling AA a cult is this; it makes people's lives better, not worse. The people who don't get sober in AA and suffer and/or eventually die, you can't really blame all of that on AA. But if it was a cult, who's the one at the top running the show and stealing something from everybody else? It's just not structured like that. It's an upside-down pyramid with the power to the people! It's progressive
Check out the 12 Traditions a little more closely.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Originally Posted by crzylilmndfreak
i appreciate your words more than you knwo, so true, and i can so relate, and
well my wanting to use lately IS after uncomfortable feelings, but feelings that wont leave me, its my social anxiety problem, and as i said looking out at my neighbors, for one, knowing that i cant drink, but for two, i can barely go outside my house, much less talk to anyone, when i was drinking i could talk in front of a whole auditorium of people, i felt FUN, and so much more interesting, now sober, i guess i just feel kind of dull, and just feel like i wouldnt have anything to say to anyone anyway.
well my wanting to use lately IS after uncomfortable feelings, but feelings that wont leave me, its my social anxiety problem, and as i said looking out at my neighbors, for one, knowing that i cant drink, but for two, i can barely go outside my house, much less talk to anyone, when i was drinking i could talk in front of a whole auditorium of people, i felt FUN, and so much more interesting, now sober, i guess i just feel kind of dull, and just feel like i wouldnt have anything to say to anyone anyway.
It didn't happen overnight, but I can tell you that my social anxiety gradually started to ease up as I worked through the steps in AA, met regularly with my sponsors, and started doing little things like setting up chairs for meetings, etc.
AA was also a good opportunity to experience some bigger 'social events' with other AA folks outside of meetings. We have an annual campfire meeting at a nearby lake here every June, and we get AA folks from all over attending. It's so much fun, and I'm very relaxed around my AA fellows.
I'm still not a real social person, but I no longer panic when I have to drive to Wichita, or have a conversation with someone I run into at the grocery store who is a normie.
Just some of my personal experience because I know how miserable social anxiety can be!
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Originally Posted by Freedom1990
I don't know if this will help you or not, but I had terrible social anxiety when I sobered up. I was always painfully shy and introverted. Alcohol was my 'social lubricant.'
It didn't happen overnight, but I can tell you that my social anxiety gradually started to ease up as I worked through the steps in AA, met regularly with my sponsors, and started doing little things like setting up chairs for meetings, etc.
AA was also a good opportunity to experience some bigger 'social events' with other AA folks outside of meetings. We have an annual campfire meeting at a nearby lake here every June, and we get AA folks from all over attending. It's so much fun, and I'm very relaxed around my AA fellows.
I'm still not a real social person, but I no longer panic when I have to drive to Wichita, or have a conversation with someone I run into at the grocery store who is a normie.
Just some of my personal experience because I know how miserable social anxiety can be!
It didn't happen overnight, but I can tell you that my social anxiety gradually started to ease up as I worked through the steps in AA, met regularly with my sponsors, and started doing little things like setting up chairs for meetings, etc.
AA was also a good opportunity to experience some bigger 'social events' with other AA folks outside of meetings. We have an annual campfire meeting at a nearby lake here every June, and we get AA folks from all over attending. It's so much fun, and I'm very relaxed around my AA fellows.
I'm still not a real social person, but I no longer panic when I have to drive to Wichita, or have a conversation with someone I run into at the grocery store who is a normie.
Just some of my personal experience because I know how miserable social anxiety can be!
this anxiety that i have is just miserable, when i saw my dr., she upped my OCD med, but that was it,hopefully will help with this "obsession" thing ive got going on, which is a big reason i cant get drinking out of my head, and the more i know i SHOULDNT be obsessing, the MORE i
do it!!!!!!!!!! :rotfxko so nothing for my anxiety...i do have konopin, but that just knocks me out, so i dont use that.. i was reading in one of my books that busbar is a really good one for anxiety, and i know there was another thread around here about that, i tried to call my dr. today, to see if she could prescribe me this med, but she was not in today...
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York
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Originally Posted by crzylilmndfreak
ive been drinking for 20 yrs, and im only 36, i allways used alcohol as a "social lubricant" as you said, and now sober, i think i just dont know how to act, as a "normal' being.
this anxiety that i have is just miserable, when i saw my dr., she upped my OCD med, but that was it,hopefully will help with this "obsession" thing ive got going on, which is a big reason i cant get drinking out of my head, and the more i know i SHOULDNT be obsessing, the MORE i
do it!!!!!!!!!! :rotfxko so nothing for my anxiety...i do have konopin, but that just knocks me out, so i dont use that.. i was reading in one of my books that busbar is a really good one for anxiety, and i know there was another thread around here about that, i tried to call my dr. today, to see if she could prescribe me this med, but she was not in today...
this anxiety that i have is just miserable, when i saw my dr., she upped my OCD med, but that was it,hopefully will help with this "obsession" thing ive got going on, which is a big reason i cant get drinking out of my head, and the more i know i SHOULDNT be obsessing, the MORE i
do it!!!!!!!!!! :rotfxko so nothing for my anxiety...i do have konopin, but that just knocks me out, so i dont use that.. i was reading in one of my books that busbar is a really good one for anxiety, and i know there was another thread around here about that, i tried to call my dr. today, to see if she could prescribe me this med, but she was not in today...
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Originally Posted by Sweets79
Be careful with Buspar, I was prescribed it once years ago, and I was so dizzy on it, I never felt good...everyone is different though, so they might be okay for you...Just letting you know my experience with them...If the shrink suggests those for my anxiety when I see him, I'm gonna request something else.
To thine own self be true
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 756
Originally Posted by crzylilmndfreak
are you on anything at all right now? when do you see your dr., and what do think you will go with, benzo's? would you have a problem with those?
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I am going to jump on the acceptance thing. I think that is key. Maybe you just haven't done it yet.
I am not in AA but started going to this one meeting a couple weeks ago. One girl shared and she seemed to be in a similar place to you, sober but frustrated. She felt like she was missing out. While I was listening to her, it was so clear how much she was suffering, wavering between staying sober which intellectually she knew was better and desiring her old lifestyle. She was in a limbo state. I almost cried listening. I remember how that felt. It was horrible.
For me now, I am saying this sincerely and at month 4, it would have been the opposite, people outside boozing at a bbq would not look alluring to me. Actually today in the park I saw people with six packs and I was like "gross." I am pretty sure that the reason is, early on in my sobriety I accepted the permanence, the gravity, the seriousness of my decision, and I mourned the loss of alcohol. The mourning process took a long time. First I had to come to grips with the fact that I was losing basically my bff. And in that instant I realized that alcohol was my bff, a double whammy. And then I really had to get it in me that it was gone, lost. I relived lost of past situations, fun situations with booze, and felt the sadness that those would never happen again. And I relived and continue to relive a lot of the dangerous, horrible situations that booze got me in that I also will not have to relive. I sort of revisited the whole relationship and created distance. I am not sure though how much of this process was willed by me. It seemed like it came naturally. I am positive though that along with a lot of other more broad changes in recovery it has been one of the most important directly alcohol related processes for me. When you accept that booze will never be in your life, you are forced to face situations that scare you and learn new skills. You are forced to confront your social anxiety. You are forced to bear feeling shy in social situations and awkward. And the craziest thing is that you survive and you grow.
I think that program recommendations and stuff like that are all good but I really think that any program will work as long as you get in the right mindset. What exactly that mindset is and how to get there I don't really know. Reading helped me immensely. And surrender. Also I definitely suggest therapy if you can do it where you can have a space just for you. Not only do you get to concentrate on you during that hour, but often times it makes you more focused on your recovery and yourself during the week as well.
13 months is a long time— congratulations. What has changed in your life besides not drinking?
I am not in AA but started going to this one meeting a couple weeks ago. One girl shared and she seemed to be in a similar place to you, sober but frustrated. She felt like she was missing out. While I was listening to her, it was so clear how much she was suffering, wavering between staying sober which intellectually she knew was better and desiring her old lifestyle. She was in a limbo state. I almost cried listening. I remember how that felt. It was horrible.
For me now, I am saying this sincerely and at month 4, it would have been the opposite, people outside boozing at a bbq would not look alluring to me. Actually today in the park I saw people with six packs and I was like "gross." I am pretty sure that the reason is, early on in my sobriety I accepted the permanence, the gravity, the seriousness of my decision, and I mourned the loss of alcohol. The mourning process took a long time. First I had to come to grips with the fact that I was losing basically my bff. And in that instant I realized that alcohol was my bff, a double whammy. And then I really had to get it in me that it was gone, lost. I relived lost of past situations, fun situations with booze, and felt the sadness that those would never happen again. And I relived and continue to relive a lot of the dangerous, horrible situations that booze got me in that I also will not have to relive. I sort of revisited the whole relationship and created distance. I am not sure though how much of this process was willed by me. It seemed like it came naturally. I am positive though that along with a lot of other more broad changes in recovery it has been one of the most important directly alcohol related processes for me. When you accept that booze will never be in your life, you are forced to face situations that scare you and learn new skills. You are forced to confront your social anxiety. You are forced to bear feeling shy in social situations and awkward. And the craziest thing is that you survive and you grow.
I think that program recommendations and stuff like that are all good but I really think that any program will work as long as you get in the right mindset. What exactly that mindset is and how to get there I don't really know. Reading helped me immensely. And surrender. Also I definitely suggest therapy if you can do it where you can have a space just for you. Not only do you get to concentrate on you during that hour, but often times it makes you more focused on your recovery and yourself during the week as well.
13 months is a long time— congratulations. What has changed in your life besides not drinking?
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