Chy

Weibe! I told you you would eventually help someone, and this is the only one you know about! Your doing great! I am sorry your son is off the path these days, but at 19 I knew it all to, and wouldn't listen to anyone. Hopefully, he'll come around. I believe it is possible no matter how bad people become, we at the hardest times need to remember we're all only human and a little compassion and love go along way no matter how much it's refuted.

This week I had a wonderful surprise, one of my ex- students who graduated 6 years ago called me earlier in the week. Victor was a hard core gangster, destined to end up either in jail ( he'd already been a couple of times while in my class), drugged out, shot or dead. I didn't think he would make it until his 21st birthday.

He called to tell me he never forgot me as I was very honest with him never bs'd him and made him feel he could become something better, he's working on taking his GED exam and wants me to help him study so he can go to college to be an accountant! I was shocked but full of joy and happiness.... what I am trying to say is give your son a reminder every now and then he has a life worth living and he can turn it around when ever he's ready.

Rooting for that 72 hours Weibe!

wiebe

Hi Gianna, day 3, great. I'm almost at one day again. Tommorow morning I'll be 3 days behind you. Let's hope it stays that way for a long time. Success!
Hi Don, this time the physical stuff is such a minor problem it hardly matters. A bit of restlessness is all. Not much. Tommorow we'll go for a walk and see how the new house is coming, and then go and buy even more junk food and soft drinks. A lot of stres is created by the alcohol we are drinking to relieve it. My son asked to have his birthday party here and was very angry when I said no way. Tough luck for him, I was sober enough not to want the extra stress, and the lack of this extra stress leads to more sobriety. Lots of things have changed around here. No one brings beer and people don't have screaming matches here. Sobriety has it's foot in the door.
Drunken thinking makes perfect sense while you're drunk, like allowing situation you know will go wrong, then blaming the people who made it go wrong, and then needing more booze to deal with it, while a sober person would ask why it was allowed to happen in the first place. As simple as this logic is, I didn't see it from within the haze.
As for why did I start again after 60 hrs. sober? The 60 hours was purely preparation, and after some clear sober thinking and lots more reading on these boards combined with steadily reducing intake I stopped again this morning with much better results. This morning after a pot of coffee there were only minor shake compared to 3 months ago when the first can of beer went down using both hands and having my elbows on my knees for stability. I honestly don't believe that the very first sober period in many years of more than two days would lead to permanent sobriety. It was only the first real attempt and the second one is already going so much better that I have much higher hopes for this one. Each single day sober is an enlightening educational experience. Don, your posts really clarify things for me, even if I sometimes don't underastand all of it. Sobriety and understanding rational thoughts seem to be strongly linked.
As always thanks for the posts,
Wiebe

wiebe

Hi Chy, I think we posted at the same time and I just saw yours. You have no idea how good that post made me feel. All those years of misery and I never gave up on the kids. The child protection people spent years wating for my phone call to say okay send the police to pick them up and raise them your way, under lock and key. Never made that call though. My daughter is doing pretty good and if my son came to me, like your student came to you, I would feel a foot taller. Thanks for that post Chy.
Wiebe

Chy

One day I hope he will surprise you Weibe!

wiebe

Hi Chy, I hope so too, but I won't hold my breathe at this point. Last night my ex son in law came by and was so drunk he could hardly walk. As he was sitting on the couch and I was sitting there sober, looking at him. I wondered if I looked like that when I was drunk. Guess I must have. Well, it's almost six o'clock on day 2 and it's sure a lot easier than the first time. Well, the dishes are calling me, so, got to go but I'll check in later.
Take care
Wiebe

MootPoint

Day 2! Wow Weibe, you're kicking @ss!

Chy

Awesome you! Geee.... you even do dishes? *LOL*

Oh yea, I dread to ever think of what I used to look like in my drunken stupors, not very foxy that's for sure!

wiebe

Hi Moot, day 3 now, and going strong. Chy, of course I do dishes, my g f is 1/2 Italian and she loves to cook wonderfull meals, but cleaning up isn't one of her strong points, so we formed a symbiotic relationship. We are both happy with it.
We've been to the store twice and made it past all the beer displays. It was really tempting to throw a few cans in the basket but I made myself a deal not to kid myself, and if I'm going to buy beer I'll buy at least ten. I can take a few more days of normal drinking, but I can't let the stuff sneak up again. That would eventually lead to cracking open that first can at 6 in the morning.
Last night we went out at 11 to get a breathe of fresh air, and sure, I forgot it's exibition here. Live music and tap beer everywhere. That was HARD! Again, not to get drunk but just to have a few. But I know for a fact how that ends up, if not this time then the next or the one after that. For us there is no few. It's either none or I may as well decide to go back to being drunk as usual til the next time I quit. At least I know I can quit at will now. That's a long way from the helpless misery of a few months ago. You might say a lifetime away.
So, after months of reading and posting, I'm in the same boat as all the AA'rs, avoiding that one drink, one day at a time. I feel great, and know I'll make it today. I've been trying to reach this point for years, but all the time sliding further into the black haze, until a few months ago. I know coming across these boards was what made the difference. Thanks to all of you for hanging in there with me!
Wiebe

Chy

You keep walking by those beer cases Weibe that to will get easier. You have a lot to be thankful for. Knowing that you can do this, knowing that you can maintain a normal life with ups and downs like everyone else, knowing you be happy eaverything life has to offer can be appreciated with a new found wonder, knowing sobriety though difficult to obtain for us is going to take some serious and honest work which will eventually become easier so long as you realize like the rest we'll never be cured of alcoholism though we can learn to live with it. Like a person who has diabetes a disease which can be fatal if not properly maintained. Our disease is alcoholism and we must take the right steps to properly maintain our sobriety or it will kill us. You have personal experiance on this with your family member.

So yes, it's gonna be hard, but down the road your path will become easier to walk. It will have it's uphill days and downhill days, great obstacles and smooth riding, where ever your path takes you be happy that you know if you so choose you never have to drink again.

I'm very happy for you Weibe, you've struggled like many with this, and you've come out ahead. For you each sober day is a blessing like the rest of us, and for you especially I hope your blessing will continue to be appreiated. Keep on Keeping ON WEIBE!

wiebe

Hi Chy, thanks for the encouragement. This mornings trip to the store was another tough one but I came back with a ton of Cola & stuff. This is a new stage to me. No withdrawl symptoms and still that stupid craving. I was thinking about the CBA all the way to the store, and thinking about my g f and the next post here in the store. Made it again. I now understand what Don said about buried stuff coming up and looking you in the face once you're sober. Family stuff that's been weighing on me for years is really bugging me now. This is an uphill day. Anyway the BB is laying ready on the couch, and I promised myself to read it sober this time. Okay, today is a good day to start.
Thanks for posting,
Wiebe

Chy

Glad it's a good day Weibe. Boy know whould be a good time for you to have a sponser. But I know that is not possible so how about you start journaling some of these feelings? It can be a pain, but so theraputic, then you have it all out, tangible in front of you. You can then come here and share what you've written and we can be your cyber sponsers to help you work some of the baggage. Just an idea, since you don't have access to an AA group. Don't let those feelings fester to long, it will lead you back to the beer cases.

I think you feel comfortable here enough to let us help you, so think about it. Well you do good today! Day 4 or 5? Loosing count already!

cowboy

Weibe,
what an encouragement to read the last few posts. I felt the same way about the emotional stuff coming up. But, it seems to be getting better the more days go by. Being sober still outweighs
being drunk any day.
Hugs,
cowboy

Don S

Hi, Wiebe,
It's interesting to see how you're finding the ways you can change your day, recognizing what you call the buried stuff, and facing all of it. Sometimes we don't see how much progress we're making, because we're focused on the difficulties. You have made significant changes in your life, your behavior, and your drinking habit.

For me, the first days of sobriety I focused on stopping: diversions, distractions, and active disputing urges. Get past the store, get through making dinner (a big drinking time for me), do something else. I counted the hours in batches of 6: 12 hours sober, 24 hours sober, etc. As I've said before, 72 hours was a key time, as sober began to feel normal. For years prior to that, normal had been drunk, recovering from being drunk, or getting drunk.

In the first couple of weeks of sobriety, I focused more on staying stopped. Recognizing the triggers, rather than the day-to-day habits ('why do I want the wine this evening?' rather than 'how can I keep the wine out of the shopping cart right now?'). Does that make sense? Not necessarily looking at the underlying depression or anxiety, or family issues which lead to them. Not necessarily trying to fix my whole world right away. Making action plans is a good thing, and straightening the closet has merits too. But working consciously, in writing if that is helpful, on the specific triggers to drinking behavior.

So, now that you know you can go past the store, and know that you can walk through an outdoor event where beer is flowing (we can't hide from the world, and alcohol is everywhere!)...now you can look at why you chose to drink 1,2,3,4 beers on a recent evening--when you know that sobriety is your goal. What was it the drinking provided you? When you seek to achieve that state again in the near future, how will you dispute the desire? It's not just a matter of keeping beer out of the refrigerator, although that is a GOOD plan. It's a matter of choosing not to use the beer that might be in the refrigerator.

Let's assume that you buy a sixpack of beer. Maybe you buy it because you're anxious that you'll want to use it, and want it there "just in case." You'll be antsy without it, or have trouble sleeping. Maybe it's intended as a little celebration for some specific milestone. All of those reasons, in my opinion, are based on irrational beliefs about what it does for you, and an irrational belief about your likelihood of success at stopping drinking once you start. They are all reasons that I used myself. If you list the reasons the beer is there, we can discuss, one by one, those beliefs and how you can come to believe otherwise.

In my opinion, it's there as a slight opening to give yourself permission to drink at a future time. In other words, it's there because you haven't made the commitment to sobriety that is the keystone to this whole process. The good news is that you've successfully worked your way down to a small amount of beer, so the next step is going to be easier.

My experience was that cravings went away gradually, diminishing in intensity and frequency. Some people like to make a journal of when they experience them, and how intense they are. That can be handy, because after 4 - 5 weeks of sobriety you can realize that you've gone 6 or 12 hours without a thought of drinking. Or maybe a whole day. Even if you haven't, you may realize that the cravings are less intense and don't last as long. One concern I have with your continued drinking is that it keeps encouraging the cravings both physically and mentally.

You mention it being an uphill day. One of the common observations and complaints about quitting drinking is that sobriety hasn't led to happiness. I'd say that's especially true if drinking was a way of coping with stress. But keep in mind that drinking usually leads to greater emotional turbulence, to mood swings, and to greater anxiety and depression. There is nothing about our emotional distress which drinking makes BETTER in the long run. And sobriety makes us more able to deal with stress clearly and effectively.

Sobriety doesn't cause happiness, but it makes it easier to recognize!

"Okay, today is a good day to start." You said it!

Thanks for posting, Wiebe, and talk to you soon.

Don S

wiebe

Hi Don, interesting post. Yesterday evening I did slip up, and so today is day one again, and this time detox isn't neccesary. The physical problems are gone, but the mental stuff is a whole new ball game. As for the benefits, or any kind of a reason to drink, I really can't think of any. I can even sleep without the stuff. It seems to be one of those relic refex reactions, "get frustrated - crave a drink". Did it help? No. Watching a movie, or going for a walk would have helped more. Today, I've decided just not to dwell on things I can never change anyway. There's lots to learn about dealing with sobriety after all these foggy years.
Thanks for the post,
Wiebe

Jhana

Hello Don, Weibe and all,

Don, thanks for taking time to post such a thoughtful message; I can testify that the cravings go away, and indeed thoughts of alcohol go away. Of course that increases the danger of not recognizing one's status as a alcoholic. There's an old horse-racing maxim: "Before you handicap horses, you have to handicap yourself." Being an alcoholic is certainly my handicap, but in a world of handicaps, this one can be one of the best as long as I remember that I have that handicap.

Years ago, I realized that I could have alcohol and its illusionary world (at least for a while) or I could have everything else (which is a lot!). Somehow, I let the "everything else" wither such that drinking again became attractive. Life, really living it, is work, and has great rewards, but I need to rely on the strength of others, (the greatest gift of becoming a sober alcoholic) to "show up" for life. Thanks for giving me that strength this morning, and Weibe, you continue to be very important in my journey,

Gianna

Chy

As always excellent post Don. Weibe, like you said don't dwell on the slip think about and avoid the situations that cause you to slip. Old habits die hard yes! But now your alcoholism is talking to you during your days of sobriety, sometimes even screaming at you, your gonna have to tune it out and take control. Good luck on round 3!

wiebe

Gianna & Chy, today I really started to read the BB and in the first chapters it goes into why I slipped yesterday. Resentments, frustration, anger will lead back to alcohol. Like you said gianna, alcohol can be a good handicap if you remmember you have it. It forces you to live a healthier life. A normal person can afford to be angry and bitter about things, but yesterday proved I sure can't. Going stong in round 3 Chy.
Thanks
Wiebe

Chy

If it's any consolation Weibe the first week of sobriety was full of anger,resentments and moodiness. It was my disease being frustrated with me for not giving into it. Don't forget this Weibe, your disease will do everything to manipulate you into justification for that next drink, think of that demon within you trying to run your life for you, I believe that's what it is. Time to let the demon dry up and disipate into nothingness so it won't haunt you with these negative feelings. Once all dried up and out of your system those cravings will begin to subside, the feelings of anger will change to happiness, and well... you will be on the road to recovery.

wiebe

Hi Chy, into day 2 here and doing fine. Yes it is sort of a consolation that your first week was like that. I didn't really expect it, but what you say makes sense. Reading the BB 5 years ago I sort of tripped over the HP thing, and reading it sober yesterday I came across one little line that cleared all that up. No problem. I can easily proceed with the book and be totally comfortable with the HP as described. As for the slip a couple of days ago, I learned a lot from it, and at least did stick to the no in between part of the plan. I won't go for a couple of beer and pretend it doesn't matter. If wrong thinking leads to cravings all day long I'll do the same thing as last time, get a bag of the stuff and start again the next day. This will be the 7th sober day out of the last 8 and it's getting easier all the time. The reading helps a lot too.
Thanks for the post
Wiebe

Anna

Thanks for keeping us posted everyday Wiebe. It's so good to follow your story. I'm keeping you in my thoughts. Enjoy your sober life!

Hugs and love, Anna