bugsworth

Steve I apologize if I offended you. Call yourself what ever you like...recover in a way that suits you. Have a good night.

Dee74

back to the original posters point - I don't see any difference in my addictions to smokes, pot or alcohol - like someone else said, the underlying issue was me.

As for the other skirmish LOL...these days I really don't care whether someone doesn't see me as a real alcoholic because I recovered without AA - I'm happy, I'm free, and that really is all that matters...the rest is...white noise

we all make our own kinda music

peace out
D

Mark75

Well, as usual, the fun threads are down here....

The OP has an excellent question... It is, for me, the ultimate reason why I don't attend NA, even though I was addicted to pills... stimulants and benzos. I had stopped the stimulants and benzos on my own, but the drinking just got worse and worse. I couldn't do it alone, I can't do it alone. Hence, I am a member of AA.

I hid my pills, always.... I drank at parties, bars and restaurants, openly, I hid the bottles of vodka, ...but drinking is "OK", it's coooool in society... hell, I can't listen to my favorite music, watch a movie, drive down the highway, open a magazine and watch a sporting event without constant alcohol references and reinforcement...

I know I don't have a year yet, so I hope you don't mind my response.... Alcohol, more than pills, cigarettes became ingrained in who I am, was....

Mark

Iamlucy

Those have been my favorite two combos but are the most deadliest to detox from. It can be so bad that your legs will shake and you can't even walk. Its a really bad combo.

I think that everyone here should just get along.

:wtf2

sailorjohn

Tried it without a program, clean and sober for 14 years but a miserable sob most of the time after I dropped out of the program, long before I started drinking and eventually using.

The alcoholic voice whispered and I listened.

I think alcohol is unique in many regards, and to maintain my sobriety I am a member of AA.

Almost 2 1/2 years now, the voice does whisper every once in a while, I don't have a lot of difficulty ignoring it. Yeah, I could see myself going back out if I 'dropped' my membership, but I don't know if I could make it back.

FightingIrish

A few random thoughts:

1. I think it's been pretty well established that a person can become addicted to alcohol.

2. From what I understand, addiction to alcohol is neither a prerequisite for nor a confirming symptom of alcoholism. (i.e., you can become addicted to alcohol and not be an alcoholic)

3. Some of the hair splitting about "real" alcoholic vs. whatever else has been distracting to my recovery, though perhaps of some value ultimately.

4. My story in brief:
-Age 9: first drink - "where have you been all my life?"
-Age 15: first drunk - blacked out, tried to beat up my best friend, vomited and passed out
-Age 15-24: well, I certainly won't be doing that again (violence, vomiting, passing out), but drinking socially with occasional embarrassing episodes, though mostly alcohol fueled my ability to feel as if I was the person I always feared I wasn't (basically, bliss). In control most of the time but occasionally I would really let go and do stupid things.
-Age 24-32: drugs, lots of drugs, less drinking when drugs were around...I always seemed to want another hit, bump, toke, pill before everyone else did. Oh, why not buy two or three just in case. Lots of risky sex and other behavior, super blackouts, no real relationships with anyone past a few months.
-Age 32-35: spinal injury cuts short my grand social career - in two short months I go from a jet-setting social drinker/drugger to a stay-at-home, pill-popping, everyday wine-drinking recluse. I have injections, physical therapy, vicodins, and eventually surgery. I notify the hospital staff upon being admitted for surgery that I am an alcoholic, and am thus administered a nice helping of morphine, valium, percocet, and ambien (and I still manage to not be able to sleep).
-Age 35, back on my feet physically, but still drinking every day, I cannot stop. I can't go more than two or three days without alcohol. Even achieving that on two occasions is a huge effort.
-Age 35: on vacation, I get arrested three times in four days in a blackout, walking around this beach town. The third time I am thrown in jail with a 0.33 BAC. I miss an important meeting at work because I am in jail. I decide to ask for help, and the rest just sort of progressed naturally until this point, over a year and a half later.

When someone says, "I am a real alcoholic", particularly when it seems to be somehow connected to having a really low bottom or multiple relapses, it has been really confusing for me at times.

Did I have a low bottom? Yes. Did I have a high bottom? Yes. Did I become physically addicted to alcohol earlier than I might have without a two-year bout of chronic pain? Maybe. Could I stop drinking for any length of time? No. Did I start again once I had stopped? Always. Did I lose control once I had started? By this point, more often than not. Have I ever relapsed since joining A.A.? No.

I try to identify and not compare. But sometimes other people do the comparing for me, and it's not helpful.

M

McGowdog

Well if there's a new way... I'll be the first in line!

Went to a closed AA meeting tonight and I love what Dr Bob says:

"If you think you are an athiest, an agnostic, a skeptic, or have any other form of intellectual pride which keeps you from accepting what is in this book, I feel sorry for you. If you still think you are stong enough to beat the game alone, that is your affair. But if you really and truly want to quit drinking liquor for good and all, and sincerely feel you must have some help, we know that we have an answer for you. It never fails if you go about it with one half the zeal you have been in the habit of showing when getting another drink.

Your Heavenly Father will never let you down!"

Dr Bob didn't mess around. He, like me, was a Maddog.

jimhere

Maybe you are like me. I had a speed problem one time. I liked it, but it got to be a bad problem and I needed to quit, so I did. Problem solved.

That was six years before I stopped drinking. Booze was a bad problem and I knew I needed to quit and had many reasons to do so and made up my mind to quit many times, but could never pull it off. Every time I stopped, I started again. When I stop drinking is when the problem starts. If drinking alcohol was the problem, stopping drinking alcohol would solve the problem. But at some point I start again.

Speed was my drug of choice. Alcohol is my drug of no choice.

Iamlucy

I loved your post!! I fell out of the back of a truck at 14 and all the guys I was with had to stop and pick me up; sooooo embaresing. I didnt even know until the next day. Then they had to walk me inside and I got sick on them. Terrible and embarresing.

Thank god they stuck with me that night or who knows what would happen.

These guys were strictly friends.

slimjim30

Thanks for the overwhelming response. I'm really interested in what everyone wrote and I also thought about it myself.

I do agree that it has something to do with society and the way it perceives alcohol.

• When I quit cigarettes everyone was proud. It's something you can openly admit to having been addicted to and overcome.
• When I quit amphetamines I didn't tell anyone. Admitting the addiction is not socially acceptable - and not many people knew I took them except for my dealer and girlfriend of the time.
• Now I'm quitting alcohol it's weird. Admitting to alcoholism isn't acceptable in most situations, but not drinking around those people I am used to drinking with occasionally also attracts comment from them (please note none of my friends are alcoholics - only 1 or 2 of them drink. I am referring to work colleagues who I have previously had a few Friday beers with).

I also agree with the comments about it being something underlying with me. When i quit amphetamines I started smoking and drinking more. When I quit cigarettes I started drinking even more. There's not been a point in my life in the last 15 years where I haven't been addicted to something. This is the first time I've ever been totally clean and maybe that's why it is different. Maintaining total "cleanliness" may require a program of sorts.

I guess I am not really able to comment until I reach 6-12 months. Then I can form a proper opinion on this.

Thanks for all your valuable insights!

paulmh

Interesting thread - I've only ever been addicted to cigarettes and alcohol. Certainly both had a physical component, but I don't really remember anything other than the odd sentimental urge with cigarettes, quite different with alcohol. I think the reasons I drank were more complex tha the reasons I smoked - though there was certainly some overlap. I have to say though Slim that the benefits to me of working a programme of recovery have been so much that I'm grateful that my alcoholism took me to a place of desperation where I was willing to give it a go.

Other thing that strikes me as I read this thread is that as well as a "thanks" button we could really do with a "thanks, I think" button.

slimjim30

That's actually something I hadn't considered. People stay on because they enjoy the program they are working.

I must admit I have always considered the "program" (no specific program - just what works for the individual) as an often unpleasant means to an end. The end being sobriety.

CarolD

Hmm......I do hope we have shattered this idea of yours

Oh my......not true for me at all.
AA is an awesome adventure in living well and in joy.

That's the only program I've ever used.....so
I can only share my experience in AA.

Please do consider finding whatever you can
for your recovery. ....

here is a list for you to explore...

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-programs.html

Mark75

Yea, I can relate to that!!

Mark

Tom67

For me, caffeine was the hardest drug to quit. I still struggle with it at times though I'm doing well now. Alcohol and cigarettes were pretty close.

ufe

Some would disagree with your model:

DSM IV (1994)

The DSM IV (1994) relies on symptoms for its definition. The DSM says that addiction, or dependence, is present in an individual who demonstrates any combination of three or more of the following symptoms (paraphrased for simplicity), occurring at any time in the same 12-month period:

Preoccupation with use of the chemical between periods of use.

Using more of the chemical than had been anticipated.

The development of tolerance to the chemical in question.

A characteristic withdrawal syndrome from the chemical.

Use of the chemical to avoid or control withdrawal symptoms.

Repeated efforts to cut back or stop the drug use.

Intoxication at inappropriate times (such as at work), or when withdrawal

interferes with daily functioning (such as when hangover makes person too sick to go to work).

A reduction in social, occupational or recreational activities in favor of further substance use.

Continued substance use in spite of the individual having suffered social, emotional, or physical problems related to drug use.

Tom67

Here is an imo interesting link about some of the addictive drugs out there and how they work in the brain.

The Addicted Brain, the Chemistry of Need

http://www.dirkhanson.org/drugdemonsinhistory.html

McGowdog

No doubt about that for me too! Well... being abruptly separated from alcohol is like the tortures of the damned... but quitting coffee is WAY more painful... physically than quiting nicotine. Quitting smoking or chewing is mainly a constant mental annoyance from what I experienced.

sfgirl

Nicotine is not intoxicating. Alcohol is. That makes them two very different beasts and why one requires a recovery program and another does not. I started cigarette smoking and drinking at a young age. I think nicotine is probably one of the most addictive substances out there, however, it did not give me poor emotional coping mechanisms that I now have to deprogram. All I had to do with cigarettes is kick the habit. Alcohol I have to learn how to live again. I, do not think that alcohol is different though than any other intoxicating substance that someone has a predilection for, except that it is more readily available and socially acceptable.