McGowdog

Wow, Steve! I think you just helped me better understand the difference between the alcoholic and the hard drinker.

findingout

I am curious. What definition of addiction are you using as the basis of this statement?

For me, alcohol was both physically addictive and psychologically addictive. Physically, I experienced withdrawal symptoms when the alcohol left my body and I needed every increasing amounts of alcohol to achieve the same result. Psychologically, I gave alcohol abnormal importance in my life, continued to use it despite many negative consequences, and employed a range of psychological defenses to defend my use including denial, rationalization and simply blaming other people.

navysteve

I have my moments now and then but they are costly. Now I think I need a nap.

Unless you are of the hopeless variety as I surely was. I had two choices:

1. Drink myself into eternal rest.
2. Accept spiritual help


Glad I chose what's behind door number 2

McGowdog

I'm not so quick to just label myself an alcoholic, nor are other recovered alcoholics that I do steps with in AA so quick to label me. In fact, they very much didn't. Unless I got pissed at them and headed out the door. Then they said, "Bud, you're full of bleep." That was their way of saying, "Don't go."

The path of consideration is a beautiful gift. There is a difference between us two and I see it so loud and clearly now! Wow! It's still a very fine line as I've always expected.

To me it's this simple; If I could do whatever it was that I thought I needed to do to get and stay sober... like if I had a "plan", I'm simply not an alcoholic.

On my last attempt to come to the group and ask for help, they described me as a down and out dude without a plan. If they said, "Can you make it to our meeting next week and make coffee?" I just simply said, "Yes." If they said "Can you make it to lunch at Villiage Inn on Friday?" I simply said, "Yes." "Can you push a penny across the road with your nose and pick it up in your buttcheeks?" "No."

bugsworth

With all due respect Steve the alcoholic of the "hopeless variety" is something taught in the big book...as you well know by now I do not subscribe to the teachings of the bb so your deliberate separation of those who recover outside of aa is noted once again.
This is not the 12 step forum and recovery takes on all shapes and sizes here.

I too am glad you chose door number 2...freedom from alcohol is a gift, one you give yourself by what ever means you feel necessary.

McGowdog

You are more than free to get sober as you choose!

I had an Ah Ha! moment on what Steve just said! I argued it at first and wanted to defend it and fight it. Then I looked at it, and finally realized how right it is.




You can be an alcoholic or a hard drinker or addicted to alcohol or recovering and not have to do the steps out of the Big Book! I've seen it happen time and time again and I don't want to fight them anymore!

It's like that Wizard of Oz moment! We're out of the Woods, We're out of the Woods!

If you can stay sober on anything less than what I have to, you're not like me! It's that simple! I'm of the Hopeless Variety! I'm a Maddog!

I know! Isn't it beautiful?

And that's wonderful too! You don't have to do what we do!

We have to accept a gift as... well? A Gift! We don't give ourselves a gift! If we did, we'd have to sing, "Happy Birthday to me,..." And that's kind of lonely.

But it's ok! You don't have to do what some of us do and we don't have to do what some of you do!

I get it!

Iamlucy

This is a really interesting post. I've been addicted to almost every drug you could imagine. Coco, Crack, Heroin, Acid, Extacy and I could go on and on. But I was able to quit most of them by myself excluding the H, prescription pills and vodka. I always wonder why life is what it is?

I always think to my self "I'm so young what makes me keep doning this". But then I always return. Alchohol is such an evil thing. Its the friend you never wanted but keep going back to.

Who knows why, I don't.

Freedom1990

I think one of the coolest things in my recovery is when I realized I had gone from needing to work a program to wanting to work a program.

McGowdog

"And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone- even alcohol."

I just had a Step 10 moment! Yeah! Mosh!!!!!!!!!

"What do you mean I don't obey the law?!?!?! I go to court when I have to!"

...and Megadeth was dancing in my head... "There's a WAR inside my head...If I take a day off I'll be dead."

Oh, not me! I don't want to do this. I want to do the things that are going on in my head.

Don't follow me! I like to smash my head against brick walls, romp and stomp and get mischievous. It takes an act of God for me sometimes. I don't play well with others.

Iamlucy

Isn't it kindof strange that we all care about eachothers recovery, all love are animals but don't love ourself?

bugsworth

I can identify with you freedom...I remember the feeling of relief when I went from needing to quit drinking to wanting to quit drinking!

navysteve

Ummm....

Bugs? I was simply answering the OP's question:

OP asked a specific 12 step approach question and I answered why I still practice the 12 steps:


Unless you are of the hopeless variety as I ( notice that I made this about me, not about alcoholics in general) surely was. I had two choices:

1. Drink myself into eternal rest.
2. Accept spiritual help


With all due respect to you Bugs, I did not ask you why you don't subscribe to 12 step practice, nor did the OP.

McGowdog

It doesn't matter, Steve. They are just like us! From the Spiritual sense anyway.

When something challenges my belief system I go into fear because if my ego is not right, I don't exist and I die.

Well... that's sort of some hard-nosed AA Big Book talk anyway. Someone might be able to relate.

I'm totally with Steve on this and totally have no clue what Freedom and Bugs are saying... but I respect the differences.

Because... I DON'T HAVE TO FIX THEM!!!!!!!!! AND THEY CAN'T FIX ME!!!!!!

navysteve

What is it that you are trying to say? That those who recover outside of AA choose a different path and I have noted that with no hostility because I respect the fact that there are many paths and you chose one different from me?

I can see why you feel the need to let me know that you know what I am up to????

Where are my Tylenol?

Can you put a price on Peace?

bugsworth

I'm sorry Steve I was responding to you responding to me in your other post.

I didn't give my reasons for not subscribing to the 12 steps just that I didn't. I was simply pointing out that the alcoholic of the "hopeless variety" is simply a way for those who use aa to separate themselves from those who recover without aa....if you can recover without you never were to begin with...my dog is bigger than your dog kinda thing...no worries your not the first to trot out that argument.

CarolD

Yes ....this is the Alcoholism Forum

All SR members are welcome to share
that includes AA members too.

We are here to discuss ...there is no p purpose in
hostility ....finger pointng or rudeness.

As always....mutual respect of each other
works best and allows information to be shared

Thanks everyone...

Iamlucy

We are all the same, but in different ways. I always noticed that people with addiction always have the same story but with different versions. I wish I could say that I havn't drank every day since I was like 12 but I have.

I don't even have a right to give advice so I won't but I would say that we all are willing to love eachother just not ourself.

Charmie

the "hopeless variety" of an alcohilic did not even have to be "taught" to me,and i was this "variety" before i even picked up a big book.my father was a hopeless alcoholic and i had never even heard of the Big Book when he died 9 years ago.oh,so was his twin brother that died 14 years ago.oh,and my grandfather,,blah blah blah,we as free people can be whatever "type" of alcoholic we think.it is not taught.it is felt.

Freedom1990

*hands Steve some Tylenol*

Would you like some tea or ice water to wash that down with? :ghug

Freedom1990

Sometimes I don't even have a clue what I am saying, so don't feel badly!