Don S

Hi, Music,

I know you like to be blunt and get to the point, but I'd like to respectfully suggest that in the future you be more diplomatic and less abrasive, or think about how productive your post is likely to be.

Drinking behavior has many root causes and can be complicated.People can remain ambivalent about that all-important commitment to sobriety for a long, long time after they first see that their drinking is a problem. I for one have no problem with continuing that conversation as long as necessary.

A forum board such as this is a great place for people to work out that ambivalence. That's what "going on and on" is all about. More to the point, there are lots of lurkers out there who benefit from the conversation. Let's not drive them away.

Don S

Music

Hi Don,
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate the feedback. Jewl is getting all the soft stuff she needs to read. I choose to be straight to the point. If that's being undiplomatic and abrasive, so be it. I never benefited one bit by people tapdancing around the point. As far as lurkers are concerned, I say to them, "stop lurking and jump in the pool...the water's fine."

Jhana

Hmm...

I think I will stay out of this one, as I think both Don S. and Music have good advice. I will say to anyone new that you will find the same cross-section of the people in AA and on this site that you find in the world. That is to say, you should always stick around long enough to form a reasonable sampling of people. You will like some and not like others, and the makeup of these categories is constantly changing. In AA there are many variations of "Take what you can use and leave the rest".

I have benefited from both the diplomatic approach, and from the tough truth approach. Give it time.

Gianna

Csmcjewl

Hi,
Just wanted to update from yesterday. I don't know what the hell exactly I was thinking! Now I've got these damn cuts on my wrist I have to try and hide from the world until the go away....damn me! So, yeah...that was a very drunk dangerous thing to do. And don't even worry about it Music, I would've been more offended had you been right but you weren't so...it's not a big deal. I don't not go to meetings because of Jennie, there are other meetings I could be going to that she's not at but I'm at...it's not Jennie. Anyways, just wanted to say that I'm ok and it was a really stupid thing to do. I'm sorry I even wrote on here last night, not one of my better nights. I'm sorry.
Stacey

Csmcjewl

Hi again...
I just went back and read the posts made...I would just like to re-afferm that I was just drunk and being really stupid. I was ...I guess I was upset at the level that I would put myself in to do something with my b/f that I wasn't at all comfortable with, I didn't want to do but i did it anyway to get to the bottle and for him to be ok with it. I can't belive I did that. My b/f doesn't realize I feel this way, I'm sure I will tell him today. I've never done the slicing thing before in my life. I have a tendancy to go get another piercing or something ya know? It's the same kind of bringing pain onto yourself kind of thing. It really got out of hand yesterday though. I really cannot believe I did that or that I wrote on here about it. I think this whole in between/ not taking a stand about my drinking has really gotten to me. I've been in limbo for so long now...I think i am going to Make myself go to a meeting whenever i can. No excuses. I work 2nd shift for the next 3 days but then I've got time off Saturday and Sunday. I Will hit meetings. We Won't be staying overnight in Neil's hotel room where there will no doubt be drinking. No more. I suppose this also means I really need to stop hanging out with christina. I cannot handle her house. I mean, I go to work, I can't drink, I go to school...I can't drink, I'm here at home...I can't drink. I go to Christina's....I can drink freely. It's bad for me right now. I know it's something I need to work on so in time I'm sure it will be ok but...not now. We're supposed to be driving down to Detroit Monday to go see Thirteen again. Me and Christina this time...not me and Dave. So...that's a good activity that doesn't involve drinking. Anyways, I've got to get into the shower and see if I can make these cuts not visible...sigh. I've been really stupid this time. I'm sorry you all had to be subjected to my idiocy for a night. I am truly sorry.
Stacey

Don S

Hi, Music,
Having thought about it for, oh, 3 hours now, I'm going to say that you are right. The different styles of feedback can be useful, and we never know what's going to work.
What's the old joke--
"You catch more flies with honey than vinegar...."
"Yeah, but who wants a bunch of flies?"
I hereby officially retract any implied or explicit criticism, and acknowledge that my feedback was incorrect--so long as you promise NEVER to tell my kids that I admitted an error.
Don S

Don S

Hi, Stacey,
It's good to see that you recognize that what you did was dangerous and irrational. But don't put it out of your mind so quickly and just label it as stupid. Self-mutilation has root causes, just as does dangerous binge drinking. It would be well worth exploring why you give yourself permission to hurt yourself.
Don S

Music

Hi again Don,
I promise I won't tell...
You're right to a point Don. I am capable of being diplomatic and unabrasive with people who need that approach. After I try that approach and those same people keep doing what they're crying about doing, I try the more straight forward approach so they won't have to sift through all the sugar and honey to find my meaning. After that, I've been knowN to give them that crazy W sign my daughter always used to flash at me that simply said...."WHATEVER." I like that three strikes and you're out philosophy....1. sugar and honey, 2. straight forward, and 3. WHATEVER.

Jewl my Dear,
That's ok, I've been wrong before...although I have my doubts as to whether or not you have a clue as to what's right and wrong at this point. I know one thing for sure. You have all the answers except the one that counts. You're still drinking and doing stupid things. What's your take on that? You don't seem to want or think that you need help. What's your take on that? I hope to God Jewl that you don't end up a statistic. Maybe you'll just end up in the ICU where the people who really don't know anything will get a look at you. But then again, you'd probably have an answer for them too. I do love you in a very special way Jewl or I would have given you the "W" sign by now. I seem to have lost count....how many strikes is it now..1,2,...

PianoGirl

I personally appreciate Music's straightforward manner. I think that's what we need sometimes. I'm not saying this in a haughty way either, I'm saying it from personal experience, because like Stacey, I have been at the bottom of the barrell - and that's what I needed to get me out. I didn't need hugs and rainbows. Because I was sick, and had no earthly idea what the heck I was doing to myself. I know if my doctor and family hadn't given me many kicks in the butt keeping me in detox, if my friends hadn't made me face the reality of what I had become, then I probably wouldn't even be alive now.

In my humble opinon, when you're sick and don't know what you're doing, you don't need people to sugarcoat your problems, you need direction and honesty. This is a life or death matter, and sometimes what it takes is big honest look at what you're really doing to yourself.

Stacey, you need to get some help. Period. What you did last night is serious, and dangerous. You need to talk to a professional. It didn't just come out of being drunk. Get help before you loose your life.

PG

Csmcjewl

Well....it's been two days now. Things are going alright. Dave and I have done alot of talking. He realizes how he made me feel so udderly uncomfortable. He feels horrible and I have been doing alot of thinking about stuff that you guys said. First off....I can't seek professional help. If this was something I did on a regular basis, I would consider. But, I don't have the time nor the resources to go that route. I'm on my own. I'm a poor college student and half the time i can't afford food, let alone a pscyhologist! Anyways, I dont have long, I've got to get heading to class but...I have thought alot about what would I deem ok to hurt myself over? And I realized, I totally sold my own body, even if it was to my b/f for beer. I mean, I felt no better than a hooker because I'd sunk to the same level. Doing something my b/f enjoys that he knows I don't and we've only done drunk. It's hard to explain. My b/f thought that it was just one of those....I don't like it but I'm still willing to do it. Which, I've done it before so it's not a big deal but...I wasn't doing it to get beer. I wasn't "selling" myself then. So....I guess, I just felt awful. I mean, that I'd sunk to such a level to make my own body uncomfortable just to get beer. It was degrading and demoralizing from my standpoint. I just felt horrible. My pain inside at that time was so great I just wanted to project it somewhere but still contain it within myself. I don't know if that makes any sense but....that's kinda what I was thinking when i did it. I've done it before as a kid but I haven't done it for years and years. And it's not like I do it very deep...I'm too much a wuss for that. I know it's bad and I know it's wrong but...when you're hurting so much there really is only so much that I can internalize and keep smiling. I've felt very wierd the past couple of days looking at my wrist and the constant reminder, this is what i did when i drank. It absolutly appals me. So....I don't know, i've got to get to class but....I'm just trying to take it easy, spend lots of time with Dave and stay away from alcohol at all costs. I feel as if if I got drunk, I would do it again. I know I'm at risk of it. So....I'm just going to take it easy for awhile.
Stacey

Anna

Hi Jewl, I've been catching up on your posts and I have to agree with what has been said.

I think you are dismissing the cutting and not dealing with it and it doesn't necessarily have to do with drinking at the time. I knew in my gut, when I was your age, that I needed help, but didn't know how to go about getting it. Things didn't get better, they got worse.

I have you in my thoughts and prayers.

Hugs and love,
Anna

Csmcjewl

Well, it's been 3 days now...this is the 4th. People came over last night and slowly things seem to be getting better. I went to a meeting yesterday. The noon...it was pretty good. I mean, I like it and I'd like to go back. Well, let's see...I've got this much figured out. I want to stop. No more pain...literally. No more pain. However, what I don't know...is how to go about doing it. I mean, obviously it's been 4 days and there is still beer in the fridge so it's not like I HAVE to drink it. Honestly, I scared myself enough I'm kinda scared to drink it. But, that will change over time, it always does and I want to be prepared for it. So...I think I am going to continue going to meetings when I can and just try to work on a plan. That's about all I can do for now. I still feel as if I'm in the bottem of some well but in my mind, I know there is a way out, I just need to find it.
Stacey

Anna

Stacey, I'm glad you're feeling better and I know what you mean about not quite knowing what to do.

You're right too about that feeling of being scared to drink because of something that just happened. That works, but only for a while because the obsession takes over again and the fear subisdes. So, having a plan for when that happens is the way to go.

If you feel like you're at the bottom, then the only way is up. You don't have to figure it all out right now, just move slowly forward taking small steps.

Thinking of you my friend,
Hugs and love,
Anna

Csmcjewl

Things have been going great lately. I'm up to my ears in homework and can't wait till the semester is over, but besides that...things are great. I havne't drank...I only made it to the one meeting so far but...I have no desire to drink so it's ok. I'm going to hit the meeting tomarrow too. Dave and I have just been doing alot of hanging out and I've been spending plenty of time doing fun stuff that I enjoy inbetween loads of homework. I talked to Jennie yesterday, she's starting to get bored with the meetings, which is good. I told her...when you hear the same thing over and over and over it does get repetitive and if you stress going so much that you're missing stuff to go to meetings, you're only going to end up resenting them. The people who go everyday are like the hardcores ya know? People who drank themselves into oblivion every day. Jennie is certainly not one of those people. In fact, yesterday I asked her, " Do you think you have a drinking problem? Have you figured out your stance?" She tells me...well...I did because when I quit doing pot I started drinking. I just wanted to laugh and go...when you quit doing pot with your other friends you started hanging out with me who was pressuring us contantly to think. You don't have the problem, trust me! Half the time I was talking her into it and there's the time's that I finished all of my alcohol and half of hers! But, I just let it go. I was going to tell her about when I quit drinking about 3 years back and started smoking pot every single day for about 3 months. I still don't think I had a problem with it though because I could say no. I can't say no to alcohol. There was a choice to smoking, there is no choice with alcohol. So....whatever. Jennie can sit wherever she wants to on the fence. But, she was actually alright to talk to. I think she's getting lonely just going to meetings everyday and having no friends to hang out with. hehe....I know I"m so busy that it would be ok to still be friends with her because she can't follow me everyday, I"m too damn busy! Anyways, I've got to hop in the shower and head to school. The unfortunate part of all this is that I think I'm going to have scars on my wrist but...it is a constant reminder of where drinking took me. Maybe it's a good thing.
Stacey

Csmcjewl

Ya know.....is it just an alcoholics tendancy that when things are going great ya just gotta get in there and screw it all up? Cause that's what I did! Majorly. Last night there was a bunch of drunk guys at the hotel and the girl that was working with me was totally flirting with them. Well, they were drinking whiskey and they shoved it in my face like...here have some. I took a sip and said no thanks...well, I said that like 10,000 times. But then she was going up to their room and wanted me to go with her. So I figured, just for a moment...well, you can see where that was heading. They poured me shot after shot and I did them. THen I drove home and I was sitting here playing around with the razor again and I was like..ya know what...no. I"m going to call Neil, we're going to hang out and it'll be cool. Get me out of this bad place I"m in. Dave had to take his car in this morning so he was already in bed. Well, Neil didn't have his car so I said I'd go pick him up. Here's how stupid I am...I grabbed a beer for the road. I finished that about halfway there (it's only about 10 miles!) and was thinking, next time I"ll remember to bring 2 for the road..and since we're driving both ways...4 for the road. Well, I got there and walked in and he was already drinking and offered me a beer as soon as I walked through the door. I took it and we sat there and drank a few before heading back here. We got back here, watched some anime and mostly just talked through it. Well, I told him about how I've been doing lately and how I"m just kinda at wits end about stopping. I even told him about the razor because I knew that he had been in the same kinda place before. He told me it was ok!!! He said he thinks it's ok to act out upon your own body. Well, stupid me...being drunk I took that to heart. Well, we were heading out...or I was heading out, drunk as a skunk back to my car and what does drunk stupid Stacey do? She turns around and Kisses Neil. What was stupid drunk Neil do? Kiss me back!! Damnit. So, yeah....there was this moment, this stupid drunken kiss between me and my fiance's friend. Isn't that great? Well, then I somehow managed to manuver my way home. I'm not quite sure how and started playing with the razor again apparently. I don't remember any of this. Once I got in the car I was pretty much a blank...I don't remember anything past that. Well, I wake up in bed, still with the same clothes on...I still have them on with this like massive gash on my arm...dried blood everywhere. It was crazy. And then I face the wrath. Apparently I told Dave last night what happened. He is Pissed. At me and at Neil. Here I am like.....now what ya know? I have been doing nothing but crying all day and trying to hug Dave. He said he may never speak to Neil again and I feel horrible because I drunkenly kissed him. It's MY fault. I told Dave don't let my drunkeness bleed onto other people. Don't let me make other people hurt on account of my drunk-ass. Well, he's still pissed. But...he left for work making me promise I wouldn't slice myself up which I easily agreed to...I told him, it's just a drunken thing I seem to enjoy when I'm drunk. I asked if he thinks I should go get help, he tells me that I know what I need to do, talking to someone wouldn't help me because I"m unwilling to make the choices I need to make to not get drunk. Well, last night when the girl with me was going up to the room, I went for her safety. I went because she didn't want to go alone. Now, once we get there she tells me it's against the hotel policy and we could get fired for it. I didn't know that until we were already in the room though. Well, I suppose I shouldn't have gone when I knew there was drinking going on. I don't know what I was thinking. My ego was getting the better of me and I thought I could handle it. Well, Dave left for work now telling me he might come home, he might not....he's not sure. I need to e-mail him and convince him to come home and he said he's going to call up his other friend that doesn't like Neil and have some Neil bashing time and maybe go beat him up. See, and all of this is my fault. My damn drunk ass's fault. I feel sooo horrible. I feel terrible about what I did and I'm angry at my drunkeness and I'm angry at me. I feel like a terrible person and I just don't honestly know what to do with myself. I don't know if I should like go check myself in somewhere, I don't know. I really don't know. I know something needs to happen though. I know that slicing my arms when I'm drunk seems normal. When I'm drunk I pray for the courage to go just a little deeper. That's all I think when I'm drunk. And then I sit there and watch myself bleed in amusement that I can finally physically see my pain. I'm so stupid. Why did I have to kiss Neil? Why did I do that? I just had a rebellion moment where I was like...I'm just going to do it. And I did it without even thinking. What I didn't expect was for him to kiss me back. Whatever, like I told Dave...not to be mean but honestly for me kissing Neil isn't important. Figuring out how to be sober and stop myself from killing myself is abit more of an issue for me. So, here I am...my day off hungover eating corned beef hash and drinking kool-aid. I don't want to think too much about that. So...I'm here...and I'm listening. Professional help is pretty much out of the question...I don' thave money..I don't have insurance. I don't have much of anything honestly. I considered just moving out and leaving Dave and telling him it'd be best for him. He says he can't tell me to leave because he loves me too much but sometimes I feel I cause him so much pain that I need to be the bigger person and remove myself from him and not give him the choice. But the thought of that hurts me so much I can't imagine it. I just really don't know what to do but I know I need to do something. I'm definitly going to the meeting tonight, that's the only thing I do know. Someone, help me please.
Stacey

Csmcjewl

Ps. If anyone knows why I would be sooooo damn cold that I can't seem to warm up and why I keep shaking uncontrollably, that would be appreciated too. I mean, it's not withdrawels, I haven't drank in over a week before last night. What is it? Why is this happening? I don't understand. I thought you only got withdrawels when you drank like everyday. And why am I so cold? Thanks...

Csmcjewl

Well, it seems people don't read this anymore so...I guess I"ll reply to myself. I guess it makes me feel better to just get it out of my system. Dave is ok now...he's still upset but he said he know's I get stupid when I drink and I know I get stupid when I drink and if it wasn't for me cutting myself he would probrably go out and do something vengful. But, he is also worried about my well being n' all. So....I told him honestly, I'm the one who kissed him, he did kiss me back but I kissed him. I took responsibility and I said when I was drunk and he gave me a hug it was almost a reflex to kiss him ya know? The hug and kiss that ya give yer sig. other. Well, that's kinda how it happened. Well, Neil, I don't know what the hell he was thinking, comes over tonight. Just shows up at our house at 1:30am. Dave didn't speak to him hardly at all and just glared at him till he left. Talk about a wierd situation. I felt horrible. But then when confronted he's like.."Hey, I'm innocent!" That kinda pissed me off....I'm like...come on Neil, I didn't kiss myself. He did apoligize but it was empty. I mean, he proclaims "I'm innocent, I didn't do anything" and then apoligizes for making Dave upset? Well, come on here....But, I just let it go. I just kinda slunk so low in the chair in the corner I thought I was going to fall off. My face was beat red and I don't think I've felt that uncomfortable in a very long time. I couldn't even look Neil in the eye and I was amazed that he even had the balls to show up and act like nothing had happened. I've made Dave promise to not be too hard on him and just let him know that he's upset because his apoligy wasn't heartfelt. I went to Barnes n' Noble tonight and bought that book "Under the Influence" tonight and another one entitled Cutting. I'm hoping it will give me some insight to my own twisted mind. I mean, waking up and not even remembering cutting yourself? What's that about? Psycho! Anyways, I mean...I understand that when I drink I get so upset at myself I just want to hurt myself the way the sober side of me is hurting ya know? I just want to inflict pain on my addiction. It hurts me so much to feel like I'm sitting back watching myself drink. I feel so out of control that I just want it to all stop. I would've been fine had those guys at the hotel not shoved alcohol practically down my throught. It's been a long day but I think it's going to be ok. I'm going to read these books, maybe understand a little more about myself and just accept my condition instead of trying to fight it. So...that's kinda where things are now. I had no idea my life could run this out of control and me, kinda feeling helpless to stop it ya know? But I am honestly scared for my own safety. Right now I mean, I've got this huge gauze bandage on my arm and I just feel downright stupid because of it. What do I tell people at work? If I hesitate in the slightest they will be suspiciousk, especially after I tell them what all's been going on. Sigh, I promised Dave I would go to meetings whenever I can. I wouldn't went tonight but I just wasn't in the shape to. I just kinda chilled today. Reminding myself what drinking does to you the next day also. Horrible, Horrible, Horrible. What was I thinking way back when when I said I wasn't "bad" enough a drunk to need AA? When I'm getting drunk and it upsets me so much I'm slicing my own wrists during a blackout, I think drinking is totally out of control. Damn me. My wrists are going to be all scarred up for life and I'm going to have to remember last night forever. It's going to be a constant reminder to me. Which I suppose is almost good but bad ya know? Well, I know no one is actually reading these but....I do feel better just writing, even if it's just to myself. But, typing is hurting my wrist so I'm gonna go read my books....I hope I'm going to be ok.
Stacey

Csmcjewl

Well, it's morning after a 3rd shift but stupid me just drank coffee about 30 minutes ago. So, I'm eating a bowl of cereal to offset my upset stomach from too much caffinee...sigh, and it's 20 degrees outside! I just had to scrape my windsheild for the first time this year! I have made a couple of decisions that I truly hope will help my situation. I am droping one, if not all of my classes today. I went to a meeting yesterday and I hope to hit another one tonight. I am going to focus on hobbies and things that make me happy. So, that's kinda the plan. I'm just gonna kinda go with it and see what happens. It has been a long difficult couple of days for me. I know that even if I have more problems than just drinking, I need to deal with the drinking first and foremost. I just don't do anything else crazy when I'm sober. I'm like a totally normal human being sober but trying to stop so many times with these fruitless efforts has really honestly driven me insane! I need to take hold and deal with my sobriety number one. It is now the most important thing in my life. Hence, dropping classes that stress me out. I will do whatever it takes to be sober or the alternative may not mean to be death but...I can't say I'm not afraid that it would be. Sobriety and AA will save my life, hell, it's day 4....it already has.
Stacey

The Jay Walker

Stacy

if you have decided to live sober using A.A. i can share what has worked for me.

A.A. has been the best thing that ever happened to me.

It's a lot more than just going to meetings, here is the formula that has worked for me.

I go to meetings,

I have a sponsor.

I have phone numbers, and use them.

I read my big book.

for me these are the basics, that keep me in check.
you can do it too, I know its a bit uncomfortable asking someone to sponsor you, and asking other women for there phone numbers, but this is a program that has been used successfully for years by millions.
just find a few winners and do what they do, you will be surprized at the results.

bubblze30

I think different ways of therapy work differently for everyone. I do however think You may be doing well because in your head you believe I am not going to meetings and now im better. See we are good with turnng something that is nothing into something. As long as you believe meetings don't work then they wont. I am not saying this for absolute but the number of people who stay in recovery is alot higher when meetings are added into there lives. I have heard a many of people say ah these meetings only make me want to use and see this is not true they use because they want to use. No other reason but that. If you are attending meetings were people are not serious maybe you should find another meeting. I have alot of friends try to do it on there own and they are either dead or using. I hope what ever way you try to get sober works but as for me I am unable to do it on my own.My best wishes to you on your journey