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Alcohol dangerous for everyone not just alcoholics

Old 03-21-2009, 05:10 PM
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Alcohol dangerous for everyone not just alcoholics

I was reading the other thread about drinking in moderation and I think a few times the point was made that drinking in moderation by non alcoholics could be a healthy thing but I think the latest studies on alcohol do not bear this out at all.

Alcohol seems to be very unhealthy even in low doses according to the latest studies which show women's risk for liver cancer increases 24% with just one drink and pancreatic cancer increases ... 60% at 3 drinks for men.

to read the studies just google alcohol and cancer ... the pacreatic cancer study is very new

and there are plenty of other studies bearing this out...these are low alcohol doses, lower than moderate drinking

"The International Agency for Research on Cancer (Centre International de Recherche sur le Cancer) of the World Health Organization has classified alcohol as a Group 1 carcinogen. Its evaluation states, "There is sufficient evidence for the carcinogenicity of alcoholic beverages in humans.… Alcoholic beverages are carcinogenic to humans (Group 1)."[5]

So my question is, why would anyone argue for moderate intake of alcohol consumption for "non alcoholics"?

Take this and combine it with all the inncocent people who are killed and injured by drunk drivers - by the lite drinkers who occasionally overimbid and fall down staircases and incur severe brain injuries... the people hurt through alcohol fueled crimes - I'd say Alcohol is Evil (and I'm not religious). Yes, some people have varying degress of addiction, which is a bad, descructive situation, but, that aside, alcohol is not doing anyone any favors.
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Old 03-21-2009, 05:50 PM
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Here is from an article about breast cancer:

From the massive "Million Women Study" in the U.K. comes sobering news: when it comes to a woman's risk of cancer, no amount of alcohol is safe.


Even one drink a day increases the risk of several common cancers, including breast, rectum and liver cancer.


The risk increases for every additional drink, and the trend holds regardless of the type of booze consumed.


"Even relatively low levels of drinking — drinking at levels we considered relatively safe for women — increases a woman's risk of developing cancer," says Naomi Allen, a cancer epidemiologist at the University of Oxford and lead author of the study published this week in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute.


"It's important that women are as well informed as possible about these risks, so they can take responsible action for how much alcohol they drink."


That message takes on greater urgency with researchers warning women are drinking more like men. They're drinking more often, and heavier when they do drink, according to the Centre for Addictions Research of British Columbia. The phenomenon has been attributed to rising stress levels, more professional women with high disposable incomes and booze ads specifically targeted at women that portray drinking as fashionable and glamorous.


"From a standpoint of cancer risk, the message of this report could not be clearer. There is no level of alcohol consumption that can be considered safe," researchers from the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute in Bethesda, Md., write in an accompanying editorial.


Some studies suggest alcohol lowers the risk of cardiovascular disease. But the major cause of death "by far" for middle-aged women is cancer, not heart attack or stroke, they say.


"It might be reasonable to suspect that many women in the lay public who are asking physicians about any possible safe effects of alcohol are middle aged; for this large group, the only reasonable recommendation we can make is that there is no clear evidence that alcohol has medical benefits," the editorial says.


Until now, most of the evidence linking alcohol with cancer came from studies of heavy drinking men.


Except for breast cancer, little was known about the effect of moderate drinking — one to two drinks per day — on cancer risk in women.


The study involved a total of 1,280,296 middle-aged women who attended breast cancer screening clinics in the U.K. between 1996 and 2001. The women completed questionnaires that asked, among other things, how much wine, beer and spirits they drank on average each week.


Women in the study who drank alcohol consumed, on average one drink per day; few drank three or more drinks per day. The drinkers were likely to be younger, leaner, more affluent and to exercise more frequently than non-drinkers.


During an average seven years of followup, 68,775 women were diagnosed with invasive cancers.


Even light to moderate drinking predicted a statistically significantly increased risk of rectum, liver and breast cancer. The researchers estimate that the equivalent of a glass of wine, or half pint of beer a day increases a woman's risk of breast cancer by 12 per cent. The risk of liver cancer increases 24 per cent with each daily drink, and the risk of cancer of the rectum by 10 per cent.


Overall, "we estimate about five per cent of all cancer in women is due to moderate alcohol use," Allen says.


The Canadian Cancer Society recommends that women who choose to drink should drink less than one drink per day (pregnant women should avoid alcohol). A drink is one 350 ml (12 oz.) bottle of beer, one 145 ml (5 oz.) glass of wine and one 45 ml (1.5 oz.) shot of spirits.


Women who drank and smoked had an increased risk mouth and throat, esophagus and larynx cancer.


Alcohol drinking appeared to be associated with a reduced risk of certain other cancers, including thyroid cancer, non-Hodgkin lymphoma and kidney cancer.


But the highest excess risk was for breast cancer.


The team estimates that alcohol accounts for about 11 per cent of all breast cancers in the U.K, or 5,000 extra cases each year. Extrapolated to Canada, that would mean 2,464 extra breast cancer cases annually.


The findings held after researchers took other risk factors, such as age, smoking, the use of hormone replacement therapy or birth control pills and body mass index into account.


The strongest theory is that alcohol increases levels of circulating sex hormones in women, and high levels of sex hormones in older women may double their risk of breast cancer.


The researchers also estimated that alcohol accounts for 22 per cent of liver cancers in women, and nine per cent of rectal cancers.


Canada may not have the same kind of drinking patterns as the U.K. But experts expect the findings would be similar here.


"The message to women is really to raise awareness that it's not just heavy drinking that can increase cancer risk," says Heather Chappell, senior manager of cancer control policy at the Canadian Cancer Society.

© Copyright (c) Canwest News Service

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Old 03-21-2009, 05:56 PM
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From an an article about "heart healthy" moderate drinking and severe brain damage:

A new study reports that while drinking a glass of wine with dinner every night is heart tonic, it can lead to severe brain damage.

According to the study published in the Archives of Neurology, similar to heavy drinking, moderate alcohol intake is linked to brain atrophy and cognitive decline.

Findings revealed that taking more alcohol places individuals at a greater risk of brain volume loss.

The study showed that women are more prone to the mal effects of alcohol. Even having one or two drinks a day (eight to 14 per week) can cause health problems for women as they absorb alcohol more rapidly and have less blood to dilute the alcohol on average.

Previous studies had reported that drinking low to moderate amounts of alcohol increases the blood flow rate and therefore protects individuals against various cardiovascular events.
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Old 03-21-2009, 05:59 PM
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Hi Tom, interesting stuff! What's your point? Do you think no-one should drink at all?

Welcome by the way, that was rude of me, sorry!
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Old 03-21-2009, 06:00 PM
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Ok, last one:

From an article about pancreatic cancer and moderate drinking:


The body of evidence linking alcohol consumption with increased cancer risk has been added to by a study recently published in Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers and Prevention, which found that drinking two alcoholic drinks every day can increase one's risk of getting pancreatic cancer.

Details and Findings of Study

The study team, led by Jeanine M Genkinger, an assistant professor of oncology at the Lombardi Comprehensive Cancer Center at Georgetown University, Washington, DC, had examined the findings of 14 studies previously conducted on the subject of alcohol consumption and pancreatic cancer. The 14 studies covered a total of almost 863,000 men and women. Of the group, 2,187 persons were diagnosed with the disease.

Based on available information on the study subjects' dietary habits, the researchers found that persons who consumed two or more alcoholic drinks per day had 22% increased risk of pancreatic cancer, as compared to those who stayed off such beverages. Here, one drink was defined by 4 ounces of wine, 12 ounces of beer or 1.5 ounces of 80-proof liquor.

Zooming in, the study team discovered that two or more drinks a day raised women's risk by 41%, while only elevating men's risk by 12%, the latter figure not having statistical significance. When the bar for men was raised to more than three drinks, their increased risk for a particular type of pancreatic cancer, adenocarcinoma, was found to be 60%, a figure which had become statistically significant; adenocarcinomas are the most common type of pancreatic cancer. This suggests that men have a higher tolerance for alcohol.

One interesting finding was that the effect of alcohol on pancreatic cancer was more pronounced among persons in the healthy weight range. However, before those who are overweight or obese rejoice, this, according to the researchers, is likely down to the fact that obesity is already a strong risk factor for the disease, and that could have masked the effects of alcohol on pancreatic cancer risk for the overweight subjects.

Another interesting finding was that the effects of alcohol were the same regardless of the type which was consumed.
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Old 03-21-2009, 06:02 PM
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Tom67.....
Thank you for sharing this valuable information with us.

Welcome to SR and our Alcoholism Forum
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Old 03-21-2009, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by yeahgr8 View Post
Hi Tom, interesting stuff! What's your point? Do you think no-one should drink at all?
My point is I think the facts say that anyone arguing that alcohol can be used in a healthy fashion is speaking in ignorance. Alcohol is carcinogenic and toxic even in small amounts separate from alcohol issues related to "alcoholism" or "problem/hard drinking".
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Old 03-21-2009, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by CarolD View Post
Tom67.....
Thank you for sharing this valuable information with us.

Welcome to SR and our Alcoholism Forum

Thanks Carol!
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Old 03-21-2009, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by yeahgr8 View Post
Hi Tom, interesting stuff! What's your point? Do you think no-one should drink at all?

Welcome by the way, that was rude of me, sorry!

no problem, thanks!
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Old 03-21-2009, 06:09 PM
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I agree with you Tom and i think that the US government probably did not have all the information you have but realised it as a serious social issue when they introduced prohibition. Really interesting posts, thanks a lot:-)

I changed my previous post to say welcome, it's 2am here in Spain and almost bedtime, you will have to excuse my impoliteness!
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Old 03-21-2009, 07:03 PM
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I'm quite jaded. Thanks for this information. I'm sorry, but the whole "alcohol is healthy in small amounts" thing has always sounded hard to believe, and i think it's mostly driven by ulterior motives (think giant booze companies).

edit: I have a short paper I once wrote to back up this claim. Did a bit of research. I'll post it soon.
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Old 03-21-2009, 07:17 PM
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I'm actually not one for studies so much.
Apparently nigh on everything gives you cancer these days.

Recent studies in Australia have suggested small amounts of alcohol are actually of benefit to the heart.

Which school do we believe?

It's immaterial to me personally because alcohol, any alcohol, is toxic to *me*. I know that....but just because I can't drink it anymore doesn't automatically mean alcohol is evil. JMO.

I await further research.
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Old 03-21-2009, 07:21 PM
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Thanks Tom.....too late for me to benefit from this probably. I was always told a couple of glasses of wine every night was good for your heart, helped you sleep, etc. Not that I ever kept it to two glasses - two bottles, maybe. I'll definitely be sure to mention my alcohol abuse to my new doctor when I go next month, armed with this knowledge. Welcome to the never dull community of SR, we're glad you found us.

Matt, I look forward to reading your paper.
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Old 03-22-2009, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mattcake79 View Post
I'm sorry, but the whole "alcohol is healthy in small amounts" thing has always sounded hard to believe, and i think it's mostly driven by ulterior motives (think giant booze companies).
A little off topic, but this reminds me of the"legalize medical marijuana" rallies I have seen when iI lived in CA. You never saw former surgeon general C Everett Koop out there marching for legalization, or anyone else with similar credentials. You did see a lot of rasta, dreadlock wearing, or Jeff Spicoli look and sound alikes that wanted it lagalized though!

Ya think they had an ulterior motive?
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:34 AM
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Many Asian friends of mine who suffer only slightly from the "Asian flushing syndrome" find they can drink quite heavily -and in fact, develop a certain tolerance to the flushing effect (caused by the production of acetaldehyde). That tolerance could prove deadly as the continued exposure to acetaldehyde (by drinking alcohol) can produce higher rates of esophageal and stomach cancers.

Although a significant percentage of Caucasians also have the ALDH2 (aldehyde dehydrogenase-2) iso-enzyme mutation that causes the flushing symptoms, it is far more prevalent in Asians at a rate of 67% (this includes Native-Americans as well).


From the 2000 edition of scienceblog dot com:


2000
From: Alcoholism: Clinical & Experimental Research

Can heavy alcohol use lead to some kinds of cancer?

Alcoholism: Clinical & experimental research

  • A significant proportion of Asians lack the aldehyde dehydrogenase-2 (ALDH2) gene.
  • Acetaldehyde is produced in saliva while drinking alcohol.
  • ALDH2-deficient individuals who drink heavily appear unable to eliminate salivary acetaldehyde.
  • These same individuals have much higher rates of digestive tract cancers.
  • Findings suggest that salivary acetaldehyde may be carcinogenic.

In the June issue of Alcoholism: Clinical & Experimental Research, researchers explore a potential association between high rates of alcohol use and high rates of upper digestive cancers. They used a unique group to investigate their hypothesis: individuals who lack the aldehyde dehydrogenase-2 (ALDH2) gene.

Alcohol is metabolized principally in the liver by two enzymes that act sequentially. Alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH) converts alcohol to acetaldehyde; aldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH) converts acetaldehyde to acetate. Acetate is then metabolized by tissues outside of the liver. As much as 50 percent of Chinese and Japanese lack the aldehyde dehydrogenase-2 (ALDH2) isoenzyme, a deficiency which allows acetaldehyde to accumulate in the blood and tissues after drinking. These individuals experience an unpleasant response to drinking alcohol, such as facial flushing, headaches, palpitations, dizziness and nausea. They also seem to have significantly higher rates of digestive tract cancers.

"We need to remember that ALDH2-deficient individuals number in the hundreds of millions," said Mikko Salaspuro, chairman of Alcohol Diseases at the University of Helsinki, a specialist in internal medicine and in gastroenterology at the Helsinki University Central Hospital, and lead author of the study. "Accordingly, ALDH2 deficiency is quantitatively the most important gene mutation potentially exposing humans to an increased risk of cancer." Salaspuro explained that high rates of digestive tract cancers among this population may be associated with high levels of salivary acetaldehyde, an association that provides "strong evidence" that salivary acetaldehyde is carcinogenic in humans.

Parotid glands are the main saliva-producing organs. Located next to each ear, they are connected by a duct to the upper gingival area under the upper lip. Most people produce approximately 1.5 liters of saliva per day. Usually taken for granted until it's compromised, saliva is a clear, alkaline, semi-viscous liquid which helps both in the digestion of food as well as cleaning, helping to keep exfoliated epithelial cells, most bacteria, and food particles away from the teeth. Salaspuro's study proposes that the parotid glands are able to metabolize alcohol into acetaldehyde.

Oral microflora may also produce acetaldehyde. Every individual has about 300 hundred different bacterial species in their mouth. That number increases exponentially in saliva, even more on tooth surfaces, and even more on gingival scrapings. Everyone develops their oral microflora within a few weeks after birth; many live and grow in people's mouths on a platonic basis, but some are harmful, such as those producing tooth cavities or those producing acetaldehyde.

The study found that ALDH2-deficient Asians were exposed to two to three times higher salivary acetaldehyde levels than either Caucasians or Asians with normal ALDH every time they drank, and for as long as they had elevated blood alcohol levels. The ALDH2-deficiency seemed to prevent those subjects from eliminating salivary acetaldehyde. Those with the normal ALDH enzyme were able to remove the acetaldehyde, likely formed in the parotid gland, before it was secreted to their saliva. Which is not to say that normal ALDH levels completely protect heavy drinkers from salivary acetaldehyde; Salaspuro noted that Caucasians that drank heavily for a number of years had much higher rates (20 fold) of esophageal cancer.

"At higher salivary ethanol concentrations," he said, "even the individuals with normal ALDH can achieve carcinogenic acetaldehyde levels in the saliva."

Salaspuro said his study's findings are important on several different levels. "We all produce potentially carcinogenic acetaldehyde in our saliva when we drink. The higher the acetaldehyde levels in the saliva, the higher the risk of digestive tract cancer. A person's risk is enhanced if, one, they drink a lot; two, if they are ALDH2-deficient; three, if they smoke or have bad oral hygiene, both of which increase the potential to produce acetaldehyde from alcohol; and four, if they have individual oral microflora characteristics that place them at higher risk."

Ting-Kai Li, Distinguished Professor at the Indiana University School of Medicine agrees. "There's a high degree of suspicion or probability that acetaldehyde, which comes from alcohol, is carcinogenic, and this may be a mechanism in the higher rates of cancer among ALDH2-deficient heavy drinkers. It's not a one-to-one relationship, but it may increase the risk."

Salaspuro noted that before dietary means and cholesterol-lowering drugs were discovered, individuals with an inherited inability to remove normal blood cholesterol in their livers often died before they reached 30 years of age. He added: "Our findings open a new area, both for screening and preventive research, with respect to gastrointestinal tract cancer. I hope we will be able to one day use our findings about microbially produced acetaldehyde for the prevention of some types of cancers."

Co-authors of the Alcoholism: Clinical & Experimental Research paper included: Satu Väkeväinen and Jyrki Tillonen of the Research Unit of Alcohol Diseases at the Helsinki University Central Hospital; and Dharam P. Agarwal and Nidhi Srivastava of the Institute of Human Genetics at the University of Hamburg in Germany. The study was funded in part by the Yrjö Jahnsson Foundation and the Finnish Foundation for Alcohol Studies.
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Old 03-22-2009, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
Recent studies in Australia have suggested small amounts of alcohol are actually of benefit to the heart. D
I think this "heart healthy" effect of alcohol, which has been found in a few studies for a long time ... though I thinked debunked in one big study...was I believed to be once thought to be due to certain components of red wine or certain drinks. It is now understood to be an effect of ethanol/alcohol itself. Alcohol acts as a blood thinner...which would be beneficial to people who have some sticky blood/artery issues... however, just like with blood thinning aspirin there is an increased risk of stroke...but unlike aspirin, there is also a strongly increased risk of cancer and falling on your face due to inebriation.

That would be like smoking cigarettes for their heart healthy fat burning effect. And ignoring their pronounced other health destroying effects.

For me, alcohol is very toxic because I'm an alcoholic and even just thoughts of drinking are dangerous. However, my severe issue/allergy/addiction with alcohol doesn't mean that it does not have general toxicity for everyone directly through its carcinogecity or other health destroying effects or indirectly through the effects its abuse has on society and people who've never touched a drink in their life. You don't have to be an alcoholic or even a problem drinker to have your life destroyed by alcohol as my very lite drinking friend who through pressure consumed more than usual once and suffered a life changing accident can attest.

I just get a little ticked when people portray alcohol as harmless or even healthy for non alcoholics or non problem drinkers... usually in the context of trying to make the point that one shouldn't try to make like just because they have a severe problem with alcohol with devastating results, that it is bad for everyone. I think the truth is more in the middle - yes we have a serious problem with alcohol that often impacts our health dramatically .... on the other hand, if you look at the science, alcohol significantly raises the risks of serious diseases in lite/moderate amounts and is therefor at a minimum, certainly not healthy for lite/moderate drinkers.

Last edited by Tom67; 03-22-2009 at 03:55 AM.
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Old 03-22-2009, 03:52 AM
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I tend to agree with Dee in that, according to studies "everything" gives you cancer or is harmful these days.

Would drinking less than 20 units a week be worse than eating a lot of fat in your diet, for example? Or not taking enough exercise, or living next to a nuclear power station?

Where I do agree that alcohol is very dangerous even for non-alcoholics is things like accidents, drunk driving, people binging on a weekend and fighting and commiting crime, etc.
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Old 03-22-2009, 04:03 AM
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I would never say alcohol was harmless Tom.

Had I the proper respect for alcohol I may not have ended up where I did

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Old 03-22-2009, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by stone View Post
I tend to agree with Dee in that, according to studies "everything" gives you cancer or is harmful these days.

Would drinking less than 20 units a week be worse than eating a lot of fat in your diet, for example? Or not taking enough exercise, or living next to a nuclear power station?

Where I do agree that alcohol is very dangerous even for non-alcoholics is things like accidents, drunk driving, people binging on a weekend and fighting and commiting crime, etc.
well, I think that's kind of an exaggeration to say everything gives you cancer .... consuming a lot of fat would probably not be a good idea... (regardless of your weight), it's not an either or situation just that both are not healthy, and I would not feel comfortable living next to a nuclear power plant no

the alcohol cancer connection makes a lot of sense because larger amounts of alcohol are clearly associated with higher rates of various cancers and disease ... it seems to be a simple dose situation with less alcohol having less of these extreme effects.... this is not a case of wow what a surprise imo, what next... water will be found toxic (beyond quantity or contaminants) ? well, maybe a little because of how much was made of the "heart health" effect but then again doctors used to recommend brands of cigarettes as especially smooth on the throat so...
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Old 03-22-2009, 11:03 AM
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Even a couple of drinks a day can a raise a woman's risk of breast cancer. You can get the same benefit of red wine from grape juice.

Drinking alcohol for health benefits is like eating processed red meat to get your protein..
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