Do any of you know someone who quit for a while and then could manage drinking again?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,415
it'd be kinda rude to hog the chalice. It's a communal thing after all.
In spite of what I wrote a couple days ago about people posting their sobriety dates before they give opinions on things, I had my head changed by Carol D a loong while ago when she wrote "I count my own time, no-one elses". If people drink the blood of Christ and it doesn't activate their condition, that's their business. The only time it's an issue for me would be if someone who CAN'T get sober was telling someone that it would be ok to drink a little wine at communion. Then I have to question their basis for making those assessments.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
Originally Posted by paulmh 
Funnily enough that's EXACTLY what I thought when this came up in a meeting a few years ago. I had visions of alkies, their complusion activated, hogging the chalice...
In spite of what I wrote a couple days ago about people posting their sobriety dates before they give opinions on things, I had my head changed by Carol D a loong while ago when she wrote "I count my own time, no-one elses". If people drink the blood of Christ and it doesn't activate their condition, that's their business. The only time it's an issue for me would be if someone who CAN'T get sober was telling someone that it would be ok to drink a little wine at communion. Then I have to question their basis for making those assessments.
I've not taken communion in recovery - I stopped many years ago - so I have no first hand knowledge.
I do know a few members here with longterm sobriety who do take communion with no problems tho...so make of that what you will.
D
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,780
I've tried to control my drinking so many times. I never could do it. Not even for a day. As long as that bottle of wine was there, I drank it. The only way I can control my drinking is to not drink at all.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,415
It triggers a particular memory in me of being an altar boy and LOVING Father K's masses because he left loads of wine in the cruet, whereas Father R finished the whole lot off himself...
yeah, communion wine would wake up all sorts of things in me I suspect!
yeah, communion wine would wake up all sorts of things in me I suspect!
I'm just a little unwell
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,219
Originally Posted by sfgirl
I could see that— it could be argued here. Probably with no resolution.
However, what I think is more interesting is the idea of how closely people hang on to the identity of alcoholic. I sort of feel like I am battling that whole issue a bit right now. I feel like recovery and the alcoholic identity is consuming my life and sometimes I wonder is it worth it? Or better am I really this sick? But then I am like, yep, I am, I have so much work to do. I am an alcoholic to a tee. Ugh. I have a friend who quit drinking awhile ago and was so quick to say she was an alcoholic. I know I shouldn't compare other people's recoveries but sometimes it is hard not to. She got a boyfriend a few months in. She didn't go to AA, LifeRing, anything. She just had a therapist. And it all seemed so easy for her. Like alcohol gone and instant happiness. Lately I have been thinking a lot about her recovery just because it is so different than my own. First of all, I am so tunnel vision myself, I cannot ever imagine having a boyfriend now or anytime soon. I battled hard to even come to the realization that I am an alcoholic. And it is hard. Am I happy? Hardly. I am learning to bear my life, to live soberly, which is so important, and needed. I grew up on alcohol; now I need to grow up sober. So back to my friend— I was thinking maybe she just switched addictions her boyfriend for alcohol but just now I was like maybe she is not an alcoholic. She quit drinking after one really bad night. Me, I needed about 100+. I kind of feel like self-destruction is part of the alcoholics deal. Okay, I am so rambling right now, I don't even know what I am talking about. Sooo off topic. It is 1am here. Point is I wonder how many people embrace the identity of alcoholic too quickly without actually being one or too rigidly. Or just a general philosophical question what does it mean to embrace the identity of alcoholic?
(You know when you don't feel tired and realize that you actually must be super tired because you aren't making any sense.....sorry folks)
However, what I think is more interesting is the idea of how closely people hang on to the identity of alcoholic. I sort of feel like I am battling that whole issue a bit right now. I feel like recovery and the alcoholic identity is consuming my life and sometimes I wonder is it worth it? Or better am I really this sick? But then I am like, yep, I am, I have so much work to do. I am an alcoholic to a tee. Ugh. I have a friend who quit drinking awhile ago and was so quick to say she was an alcoholic. I know I shouldn't compare other people's recoveries but sometimes it is hard not to. She got a boyfriend a few months in. She didn't go to AA, LifeRing, anything. She just had a therapist. And it all seemed so easy for her. Like alcohol gone and instant happiness. Lately I have been thinking a lot about her recovery just because it is so different than my own. First of all, I am so tunnel vision myself, I cannot ever imagine having a boyfriend now or anytime soon. I battled hard to even come to the realization that I am an alcoholic. And it is hard. Am I happy? Hardly. I am learning to bear my life, to live soberly, which is so important, and needed. I grew up on alcohol; now I need to grow up sober. So back to my friend— I was thinking maybe she just switched addictions her boyfriend for alcohol but just now I was like maybe she is not an alcoholic. She quit drinking after one really bad night. Me, I needed about 100+. I kind of feel like self-destruction is part of the alcoholics deal. Okay, I am so rambling right now, I don't even know what I am talking about. Sooo off topic. It is 1am here. Point is I wonder how many people embrace the identity of alcoholic too quickly without actually being one or too rigidly. Or just a general philosophical question what does it mean to embrace the identity of alcoholic?
(You know when you don't feel tired and realize that you actually must be super tired because you aren't making any sense.....sorry folks)
When a newcomer comes to this forum and describes their drinking habits and asks whether or not we think they're alcoholic, what's the general response they are given? I'd say it's along the lines of - "Only you can decide whether or not you're alcoholic. It's not what you drink, how much you drink, or how often you drink - it's what happens to you once you start drinking. If you feel that alcohol is causing problems in your life, then you have a problem with alcohol. Try stopping for 30 days and seeing how you feel then."
Perhaps your friend just plain didn't like what happened to her when she drank. Perhaps your friend decided once and for all that it just wasn't worth it and she didn't want to do it anymore. Whether or not she's an alcoholic doesn't really matter. She didn't like what was happening when she drank, so she quit drinking. Smart girl.
I totally get the "instant gratification" thing. I want to feel better RIGHT NOW, too. I want to be "fixed". I'm tired of thinking about drinking or not drinking all the time. I'm tired of reading recovery books. I'm tired of the thoughts and emotions and everything else I've been experiencing. But I gotta do what I gotta do, I guess. And what I gotta do is NOT drink, even if it takes up all of my energy.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hicktown, PA
Posts: 1,479
I tried for years to control my drinking.....years, and I kept journals, so I can read back through every failed attempt, every "day one", every compromise, every excuse....
Now I have been sober for almost 17 months and I have never missed Communion in my Catholic Church at least once, and sometimes twice a week, since the beginning of my recovery. I have never had an urge to drink because of it, never felt the urge to "hog the chalice" (gotta say that is an interesting image!), and when I am a Eucharistic Minister, I have another Minister or my priest finish whatever is left in my chalice so I never get more than a sip.
I have no idea what that means about whether or not I am an alcoholic (I believe I am). I believe in Transubstantiation - that after the blessing the wine becomes the Blood of Christ. Is that what makes the difference in me? That I believe I am receiving the Precious Blood of Christ, not flying under the radar to sneak a drink?
Who knows for sure? The only reason I responded is to say that I can't control my drinking so I will never drink again, but that all of us are very, very different, and no one mold fits us all.
Interesting thread, thanks.
Jomey
Now I have been sober for almost 17 months and I have never missed Communion in my Catholic Church at least once, and sometimes twice a week, since the beginning of my recovery. I have never had an urge to drink because of it, never felt the urge to "hog the chalice" (gotta say that is an interesting image!), and when I am a Eucharistic Minister, I have another Minister or my priest finish whatever is left in my chalice so I never get more than a sip.
I have no idea what that means about whether or not I am an alcoholic (I believe I am). I believe in Transubstantiation - that after the blessing the wine becomes the Blood of Christ. Is that what makes the difference in me? That I believe I am receiving the Precious Blood of Christ, not flying under the radar to sneak a drink?
Who knows for sure? The only reason I responded is to say that I can't control my drinking so I will never drink again, but that all of us are very, very different, and no one mold fits us all.
Interesting thread, thanks.
Jomey
A new dawn and new chapter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 298
At best I remember seeing one guy who was sober from all drinking and drugs but would still hangout at bars and what not while everyone else was drinking up. That had to be tough. Because I don't know about you but have you ever been around a bunch of drunks while sober? Pretty annoying if you ask me.
Anyway as for me, no. I might be ok for a short time but I've played that on and off the wagon game enough times to know better now. I'm either a going to be a sad drunken mess or live a life of complete sobriety, there's no middle ground there, and I choose sobriety now.
Anyway as for me, no. I might be ok for a short time but I've played that on and off the wagon game enough times to know better now. I'm either a going to be a sad drunken mess or live a life of complete sobriety, there's no middle ground there, and I choose sobriety now.
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 15,203
I've PONDERED THIS QUESTION since, it was posted.
I'm going on several years without a drink now. Why, would I even want to try and drink again if, possible? Even at moderation, a six pack of beer 7 to 8 dollars? Not sure what the price is. A quart of wine, 15 dollars?
If, I want misery, I watch my 401 K go down and do it without a hang over.
Maybe, it's cause, I've got less time on Earth left than more these days. Either way, I'm not going to louse up what few days of life I've left by even entertaining the thought of it.
No offense, but it's very bad question to propose on a recovery site. If, a person has got to the point in his life he's on these forums, his life has been affected either through his or her drinking or, their lives has been affected by someone else's drinking.
I've got another relapse in me, not sure, I've got another recovery
I'm going on several years without a drink now. Why, would I even want to try and drink again if, possible? Even at moderation, a six pack of beer 7 to 8 dollars? Not sure what the price is. A quart of wine, 15 dollars?
If, I want misery, I watch my 401 K go down and do it without a hang over.
Maybe, it's cause, I've got less time on Earth left than more these days. Either way, I'm not going to louse up what few days of life I've left by even entertaining the thought of it.
No offense, but it's very bad question to propose on a recovery site. If, a person has got to the point in his life he's on these forums, his life has been affected either through his or her drinking or, their lives has been affected by someone else's drinking.
I've got another relapse in me, not sure, I've got another recovery
Last edited by CAPTAINZING2000; 03-02-2009 at 06:14 AM.
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
The Truth
[QUOTE=doorknob;2131555]That's what I thought. I don't believe the ability to take a sip of wine in such a situation without experiencing cravings rules out one being an alcoholic. Holy crap, Jim, you really suggested that this guy try some controlled drinking? There's a huge difference between a couple of drinks and a sip of wine. I think it is really sad that this guy doesn't feel as though he belongs in AA anymore on account of that..
Katy, I too am sorry for your loss.
DK, the guy didn't feel like he fit in in AA before he asked me to sponsor him. After looking at the Doctor's Opinion, he told me that he had never experienced the phenomenon of craving, the one most defining factor of alcoholism. The reason the man does not feel like he fits in in AA is because he doesn't fit in in AA. He is not alcoholic, just a lonely person looking for a place in this world to fit into. Like I said, you have to be pretty screwed up to want to fit in in AA in the first place.
I am not an expert, I just have some experience that is useful. And I don't take the responsibility that comes with working with others on this level lightly.
As for the suggestion of trying some controlled drinking, I have no problem with it. Sometimes it is the only way to find out.
The whole process of the steps is built on a foundation of the truth, not my truth, not your truth, but the truth. The steps cannot be taken on the basis of a lie. Years ago I worked with another man who wanted to be in AA and insisted he was alcoholic, even though he kept relapsing on heroin. He wanted to base his life on a lie, too. He was found in a motel room in East L.A. with a needle hanging out of his arm.
As for moderation management, or whatever, I have no opinion but this: If someone is a true alcoholic, there is no such thing as moderation. It is either entire abstinence or drinking alcoholicaly. The program of AA is about entire abstinence, period, no wine at communion, no nyquil, no O'dools, no alcohol in any form.
As for the amount of alcohol it takes to start a phenomenon of craving, I don't know how much it takes. When I was about three years sober, a friend and I were in Portland at an AA event. We were having desert after dinner, some kind of cake with ice cream with a sauce over it. As we ate, a weird, warm feeling came over me, along with a sensation of "I want more." My friend said "Boy, that's good, I'm going to order another." The waiter came and we asked him about the sauce. Turns out it was made of some sort of liqueur. Then we realized what was happening. We were experiencing the phenomenon of craving. We both went into prayer, and neither one of us changed our sobriety dates. Needless to say, we did not order another and since then, I always ask what is the sauce made of. I am convinced that if we had ordered another desert that we would have ended up in the bar.
Based on that experience, I do not take it lightly when someone asks me for help. But you know DK, you can't transmit an experience you don't have.
Peace,
Jim
Katy, I too am sorry for your loss.
DK, the guy didn't feel like he fit in in AA before he asked me to sponsor him. After looking at the Doctor's Opinion, he told me that he had never experienced the phenomenon of craving, the one most defining factor of alcoholism. The reason the man does not feel like he fits in in AA is because he doesn't fit in in AA. He is not alcoholic, just a lonely person looking for a place in this world to fit into. Like I said, you have to be pretty screwed up to want to fit in in AA in the first place.
I am not an expert, I just have some experience that is useful. And I don't take the responsibility that comes with working with others on this level lightly.
As for the suggestion of trying some controlled drinking, I have no problem with it. Sometimes it is the only way to find out.
The whole process of the steps is built on a foundation of the truth, not my truth, not your truth, but the truth. The steps cannot be taken on the basis of a lie. Years ago I worked with another man who wanted to be in AA and insisted he was alcoholic, even though he kept relapsing on heroin. He wanted to base his life on a lie, too. He was found in a motel room in East L.A. with a needle hanging out of his arm.
As for moderation management, or whatever, I have no opinion but this: If someone is a true alcoholic, there is no such thing as moderation. It is either entire abstinence or drinking alcoholicaly. The program of AA is about entire abstinence, period, no wine at communion, no nyquil, no O'dools, no alcohol in any form.
As for the amount of alcohol it takes to start a phenomenon of craving, I don't know how much it takes. When I was about three years sober, a friend and I were in Portland at an AA event. We were having desert after dinner, some kind of cake with ice cream with a sauce over it. As we ate, a weird, warm feeling came over me, along with a sensation of "I want more." My friend said "Boy, that's good, I'm going to order another." The waiter came and we asked him about the sauce. Turns out it was made of some sort of liqueur. Then we realized what was happening. We were experiencing the phenomenon of craving. We both went into prayer, and neither one of us changed our sobriety dates. Needless to say, we did not order another and since then, I always ask what is the sauce made of. I am convinced that if we had ordered another desert that we would have ended up in the bar.
Based on that experience, I do not take it lightly when someone asks me for help. But you know DK, you can't transmit an experience you don't have.
Peace,
Jim
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Winter Park, Fl
Posts: 27
I am under the belief that it only takes one sip of any alcohol for the phenomenon of craving to start up ending in a binge. There are people who aren't real alcoholics in AA. The book talks about moderate and heavy drinkers, who, given a sufficient reason, (DUI, health reasons, falling in love, etc.) can easily stop drinking alcohol. The book says not so with the real alcoholic, we keep coming back for more until we have had some serious pain inflicted.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: witness protection program
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by MagicMan08
I am very early in my sobriety but my mind is already like ahhhhh only drink at a summer festival or when I move away to go to school or something it will be a new area and I have been sober for a while so maybe I can keep myself in check and go to the bars and meet new people and have fun on the weekends and stuff.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 812
No, I've never met an alcoholic who learned to drink in moderation.
But my real question is, why would you want to drink in moderation? I've never understood people who want to have a "few drinks." I honestly have no desire to have a "few drinks." A few drinks have never taken me where I really want to go. In fact, I've refused a "few drinks" in the past when I knew I wouldn't be able to have more. "A few" for me is unbearable to the point of being in mental anguish and physical pain. I'd rather have none than a few.
But my real question is, why would you want to drink in moderation? I've never understood people who want to have a "few drinks." I honestly have no desire to have a "few drinks." A few drinks have never taken me where I really want to go. In fact, I've refused a "few drinks" in the past when I knew I wouldn't be able to have more. "A few" for me is unbearable to the point of being in mental anguish and physical pain. I'd rather have none than a few.
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by jimhere
That's what I thought. I don't believe the ability to take a sip of wine in such a situation without experiencing cravings rules out one being an alcoholic. Holy crap, Jim, you really suggested that this guy try some controlled drinking? There's a huge difference between a couple of drinks and a sip of wine. I think it is really sad that this guy doesn't feel as though he belongs in AA anymore on account of that..
Katy, I too am sorry for your loss.
DK, the guy didn't feel like he fit in in AA before he asked me to sponsor him. After looking at the Doctor's Opinion, he told me that he had never experienced the phenomenon of craving, the one most defining factor of alcoholism. The reason the man does not feel like he fits in in AA is because he doesn't fit in in AA. He is not alcoholic, just a lonely person looking for a place in this world to fit into. Like I said, you have to be pretty screwed up to want to fit in in AA in the first place.
I am not an expert, I just have some experience that is useful. And I don't take the responsibility that comes with working with others on this level lightly.
As for the suggestion of trying some controlled drinking, I have no problem with it. Sometimes it is the only way to find out.
The whole process of the steps is built on a foundation of the truth, not my truth, not your truth, but the truth. The steps cannot be taken on the basis of a lie. Years ago I worked with another man who wanted to be in AA and insisted he was alcoholic, even though he kept relapsing on heroin. He wanted to base his life on a lie, too. He was found in a motel room in East L.A. with a needle hanging out of his arm.
As for moderation management, or whatever, I have no opinion but this: If someone is a true alcoholic, there is no such thing as moderation. It is either entire abstinence or drinking alcoholicaly. The program of AA is about entire abstinence, period, no wine at communion, no nyquil, no O'dools, no alcohol in any form.
As for the amount of alcohol it takes to start a phenomenon of craving, I don't know how much it takes. When I was about three years sober, a friend and I were in Portland at an AA event. We were having desert after dinner, some kind of cake with ice cream with a sauce over it. As we ate, a weird, warm feeling came over me, along with a sensation of "I want more." My friend said "Boy, that's good, I'm going to order another." The waiter came and we asked him about the sauce. Turns out it was made of some sort of liqueur. Then we realized what was happening. We were experiencing the phenomenon of craving. We both went into prayer, and neither one of us changed our sobriety dates. Needless to say, we did not order another and since then, I always ask what is the sauce made of. I am convinced that if we had ordered another desert that we would have ended up in the bar.
Based on that experience, I do not take it lightly when someone asks me for help. But you know DK, you can't transmit an experience you don't have.
Peace,
Jim
Katy, I too am sorry for your loss.
DK, the guy didn't feel like he fit in in AA before he asked me to sponsor him. After looking at the Doctor's Opinion, he told me that he had never experienced the phenomenon of craving, the one most defining factor of alcoholism. The reason the man does not feel like he fits in in AA is because he doesn't fit in in AA. He is not alcoholic, just a lonely person looking for a place in this world to fit into. Like I said, you have to be pretty screwed up to want to fit in in AA in the first place.
I am not an expert, I just have some experience that is useful. And I don't take the responsibility that comes with working with others on this level lightly.
As for the suggestion of trying some controlled drinking, I have no problem with it. Sometimes it is the only way to find out.
The whole process of the steps is built on a foundation of the truth, not my truth, not your truth, but the truth. The steps cannot be taken on the basis of a lie. Years ago I worked with another man who wanted to be in AA and insisted he was alcoholic, even though he kept relapsing on heroin. He wanted to base his life on a lie, too. He was found in a motel room in East L.A. with a needle hanging out of his arm.
As for moderation management, or whatever, I have no opinion but this: If someone is a true alcoholic, there is no such thing as moderation. It is either entire abstinence or drinking alcoholicaly. The program of AA is about entire abstinence, period, no wine at communion, no nyquil, no O'dools, no alcohol in any form.
As for the amount of alcohol it takes to start a phenomenon of craving, I don't know how much it takes. When I was about three years sober, a friend and I were in Portland at an AA event. We were having desert after dinner, some kind of cake with ice cream with a sauce over it. As we ate, a weird, warm feeling came over me, along with a sensation of "I want more." My friend said "Boy, that's good, I'm going to order another." The waiter came and we asked him about the sauce. Turns out it was made of some sort of liqueur. Then we realized what was happening. We were experiencing the phenomenon of craving. We both went into prayer, and neither one of us changed our sobriety dates. Needless to say, we did not order another and since then, I always ask what is the sauce made of. I am convinced that if we had ordered another desert that we would have ended up in the bar.
Based on that experience, I do not take it lightly when someone asks me for help. But you know DK, you can't transmit an experience you don't have.
Peace,
Jim
I'm just a little unwell
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,219
Originally Posted by Pagekeeper
No, I've never met an alcoholic who learned to drink in moderation.
But my real question is, why would you want to drink in moderation? I've never understood people who want to have a "few drinks." I honestly have no desire to have a "few drinks." A few drinks have never taken me where I really want to go. In fact, I've refused a "few drinks" in the past when I knew I wouldn't be able to have more. "A few" for me is unbearable to the point of being in mental anguish and physical pain. I'd rather have none than a few.
But my real question is, why would you want to drink in moderation? I've never understood people who want to have a "few drinks." I honestly have no desire to have a "few drinks." A few drinks have never taken me where I really want to go. In fact, I've refused a "few drinks" in the past when I knew I wouldn't be able to have more. "A few" for me is unbearable to the point of being in mental anguish and physical pain. I'd rather have none than a few.
Pretty much sums it up for me.
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