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Putting Spiritual Matters ahead of Material

Old 02-18-2009, 02:14 PM
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Putting Spiritual Matters ahead of Material

Hi Everyone,

I have been listening to the AA Speaker tapes and I want to get some second opinions about something I heard. The Speaker (Bruce) had posed the following hypothetical question to sponsee; " If your wife was sick and you could help her by giving up your job, what would you choose?" He then posed the same question asking if it was another close family member, or former friend... to illustrate the point that the spiritual is far more important to us than the material (in this case work) than we might realize.

I am a newcomer and have been sober for a little over a month. I was fired from my last job in 2008 and I have been out of work for almost one year now. My wife works, we have one 2-year old daughter and are expecting our 2nd in June. One common theme I hear on the speaker tapes that if you concentrate on working the steps, then work and finances have a way of working themselves out on their own. Has this been true for others? The ironic thing is that I was working in a part of the world where alcohol is prohibited, so during my tenure at my last employer I was not drinking much; but I still got fired nonetheless.

The other question I have is something else I hear another AA speaker (Larry) say about work. He was working for a less than ethical organization and his sponsor told him he had to quit since his employment there was jeapordizing his sobriety. My former employer sounds similar to the place 'Larry' worked at and I would like to know how others out there deal with such moral dilemnas?

Sincerely,

PatK
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:28 PM
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Putting your life into the hands of this "power" is really giving up on running the show yourself - so like a prisoner who has "surrendered" you are gonna end up where you end up.

I don't know anyone who has fully given themselves from a spot of total deflation, started doing what those before them had done - just to end up in a worse situation before. This fourth dimension they speak of, the spiritual realm - will provide everything one needs. This has been my experience and I now have faith that things will be ok when I move into the unknown.

I don't know if you'll get financially secure - but I do know that if you can go into this "knowing" that whatever is in store for you is better than what "you" have planned for you - things will be good.

This is almost always seen in retrospect.

all the best on your journey.
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:47 PM
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LOL suger time is the fourth dimension!

For me it would be a fantastic thing if I could just concentrate on my sobriety but unfortunately life sometimes has a habit of getting in the way, those bills have to be paid.

However for me, especially now in early sobriety, I have to see it as the most important aspect of my life and leave a lot of other stuff on a back burner, it is so easy once you have put the drink down to slip into thinking you are ok, and as I think we all know complacency can lead to relapse incredibly fast.

Well done PatK on your months sobriety.
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:50 PM
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Hi Pat

I can sooo relate to this, can i take it further? It is almost impossible for me to comprehend how i will be able to trust in my HP enough to just change and start doing what i want. It was grilled into me at private school that success is measured by money and to be very worried about what past middle age holds, i.e. 60 yrs old you have to be financially secure. I make alot of money and spend it all, always have on stupid ass things. Money has NEVER made me happy. It is not just my job that makes me money but the fringe benefits so my earnings have never been based on my work but how good i am at basically gaining company's confidences (bit vague but hope you get the jist).

I am 4 months sober have been to 1 AA meeting, fell asleep tonight and missed the important one with the first 3 steps which i have now stopped being annoyed about.

Anyways obviously what i am doing does not make me happy and is not ethical, but there is no way i could make a step to be able to take lesser material rewards by myself for the exchange of doing something that i want to do with pride and contentment.

I can totally see and have met people that are very successful who do things they love doing and set up their own companies, I have only ever met wealthy people who work in or have made money using unethical means that have nowhere near the life that the decent people have. I justify what i do to everyone, my friends, my family but i can't look in the mirror and say i am ok with it!

Sorry for rambling, but the point is i ******* need AA, i really really need to get this, i dont want to be this person and want to stop zipping through the gap in the fence pretending that everyone else is dumb and i am the smart one!

It's difficult for me Pat to comprehend so i guess that is why they have a book and sponsors hehe Hope we both get it, wouldn't it be great:-)
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:06 PM
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The other question I have is something else I hear another AA speaker (Larry) say about work. He was working for a less than ethical organization and his sponsor told him he had to quit since his employment there was jeapordizing his sobriety. My former employer sounds similar to the place 'Larry' worked at and I would like to know how others out there deal with such moral dilemnas?

IMO being a good person in the eyes of other people doesn't protect you from alcohol, although I wouldn't like to discourage anybody from trying to be good! For me I have to look myself in the mirror and justify myself to myself for my own psychological well being.
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sugErspun View Post
Putting your life into the hands of this "power" is really giving up on running the show yourself - so like a prisoner who has "surrendered" you are gonna end up where you end up.

I don't know if you'll get financially secure - but I do know that if you can go into this "knowing" that whatever is in store for you is better than what "you" have planned for you - things will be good.

This is almost always seen in retrospect.

all the best on your journey.
I think this is the key to success in everything in life, including overcoming addictions, having satisfying relationships, sufficient finances, etc. It is having faith that the Higher Power (which I believe is inside of us instead of up in space), will take care of us if we let It.

The areas in my life where I am successful are areas where I have just "gone with the flow" and have not complained or tried too hard. The areas in my life where I am not successful are the areas where I have tried way too hard, decided it was my way or no way, have prayed prayers of desperation, have been ungrateful, have complained, and have a generally negative attitude and outlook. That's my experience.

I don't see this as giving up control to a third party. That makes it seem like success in your life is only possible with a divine miracle by a third party, and that we don't have any control or responsibility for our own selves. I believe that the power of God to overcome obstacles and flourish is built into Me! I just need to tap into that power and let It guide me. So I am still the master of My own destiny, and I can achieve greatness through Me. But it is the power of God inside of Me that causes this, and so if I am true to My self I will shine. I am made in the image and likeness of God. I think that's what people mean when they say to follow your heart.
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Old 02-18-2009, 06:12 PM
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I'm 10 years sober and I go through phases with my work life and letting god in, however that being said I am only 31 and got sober just prior to my 21 birthday in AA.

My 2 approaches tend to consist of

1. I stay in jobs I friggin hate, because I am too scared to go and look for something else and assume it must be God's will for me, cause nothing else is happening

2. I dramatically annouce my resignation and leave in the same kind of fashion, feeling noble and like I am doing God's will but blame my employer for being a fckr.

I would not recommend either of these approaches and I don't think they are good examples of 'emotional soberity'. In saying that five years ago I couldn't have even explained that was what I did though, so I am getting better, even if it has taken awhile.

I think the middle road is the key and being willing to take responsibility for your own choices, whatever you decide. And if you decide wrong, then you can always make another decision eh?

Right now I am working doing something I love but I have to be very careful not to get all crazy about it. It sometimes sneaks up on me.
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:58 AM
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Welcome to our SR Alcoholism Forum
Congratulations on your new sobriety...

Blessings to you and your family
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Old 02-19-2009, 03:08 AM
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Hi there and welcome. when I was drinking, I was always kooking for money or material stuff to fix everything for me. When I got the big house I would be ok ....or the big car or the nice clothes, proper relationship..etc...yet I was a disaster in all these areas, when I stopped drinking and started to work the steps my thinking started changing slowly. The second half of the first step was huge for me, my life was unmanagable. When I started turning up on time to whatever it was I was doing, sober or without a hangover. when I started to face up to things, paying bills (even in small amounts) on time. keeping pride my appearance , conducting myself in an adult manner.....slowly ,slowly stuff improved and continues to improve for me. I no longer try to fill myself up with material things, I have contentment within. There is nothing wrong with having nice things, driving a nice car or going on a nice holiday but THEY did not sort out my problems. I used to travel to escape the pain in my life. what I did not realize was I took myself along so I was sitting on a beach somewhere still worring about the mess at home and probably more in debt. Now i try to keep my life in order. It works for me. The 12th step says "having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps" I feel spiritually alive today....awake...thank God. Give the steps a try and give time ..time. watch what happens. more will be revealed
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Old 02-19-2009, 03:42 AM
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"One common theme I hear on the speaker tapes that if you concentrate on working the steps, then work and finances have a way of working themselves out on their own. Has this been true for others?"

What I've discovered is that working the steps has given me the confidence and ability to go for things I may not have in the past. I had always believed that I was a loser and deserved nothing.

I now know that this is not true. I know that God loves me and will look after me, provided that I make an effort as well. It's working out. I've got a good job, a family,and prospects for the future.

Am I rich? Monetarily no. But each day I look into my kids beds, my wife's eyes, and the faces of a room full of special ed students and know that I am wealthy beyond measure.

What it comes down to is: Where's your gold? What is important? The steps have taught me where the real value in life lies.

Peace,
MIke
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:23 AM
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Hi Everyone,

I know this is very very late, but thank you for the replies!
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:33 AM
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Hi Again,

I would appreciate some advice. I was fired 18 months ago and am still very upset about it. I live in Japan and am an underemployed English as a Foreign Language Teacher. I have since April been working about 9 hours a week. Been sober for 3 months. Had a few relapses since returning to Japan in September 2008. There is a AA group here in my small town but no one speaks English so I don't get a lot out of the meetings. There is a American Catholic priest who lives in a nearby city and runs the local AA groups. I did my step 5 with him. I have gotten to step 8 and have been unable to move on since an ammend involves repaying a debt to some people in Canada, going back to 1995. It is not much ($450 Cdn), but not being fully employed, with a wife and two kids, I am unable to pay it back right now, and hence move forward with the steps.

Yes, sobriety is a priority for me, but the anxiety of my employment situation knaws away at me. There have many times where I tell me wife in a fit of frustration that it would be better if I were to relocate to somewhere else in Japan like Tokyo to find work, or go abroad for work and just send back remittances of pay. My wife stresses the importance of keeping the family together, especially since the kids are so young (3 months and 2 1/2 years old).

I guess I agree with the AA advice about it's not worth having a great job if your personal life is in shambles, but after 18 months from when I was fired and not working full-time, I feel the need to address the career part of my life, hoping that if I get this in order, other things will work out. Yes, surrender to my HP, but does my HP want me to work. Does he want me to change careers?

Patk
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:57 AM
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For me recovery and finding spirituality was always about reconnecting with my true self. I think other people call that higher power.

It is about shedding the social "shoulds" and beginning to really listen to what you truly want. For me, this does not mean listening to AA "shoulds" or other religious "shoulds" because that is just shifting allegiances, not actually making a new and strong spiritual connection. The unfortunate thing about HP stuff is it is not always on your timeline; it is on its own. And a lot of the work is about quieting down and listening to yourself. You can't rush it. Getting through all 12 steps in a month won't necessarily make the magic appear. So I guess my point is that while the AA advice might say that a great job is not important if your personal life is in shambles, this doesn't mean anything unless it is really true for you, deep down in your heart. The work is trying to be still enough and casting off all the baggage and wreckage of your using years to be able to listen and hear what your true self wants and needs. It will guide you in the right direction. In the meantime you should do what you need to provide for your family. But if you are surviving now and your wife wants you with her, I would just relax and give it a little more time, surrender, and shift your focus to your recovery.
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by yeahgr8 View Post
Hi Pat

I can sooo relate to this, can i take it further? It is almost impossible for me to comprehend how i will be able to trust in my HP enough to just change and start doing what i want. It was grilled into me at private school that success is measured by money and to be very worried about what past middle age holds, i.e. 60 yrs old you have to be financially secure. I make alot of money and spend it all, always have on stupid ass things. Money has NEVER made me happy. It is not just my job that makes me money but the fringe benefits so my earnings have never been based on my work but how good i am at basically gaining company's confidences (bit vague but hope you get the jist).

I am 4 months sober have been to 1 AA meeting, fell asleep tonight and missed the important one with the first 3 steps which i have now stopped being annoyed about.

Anyways obviously what i am doing does not make me happy and is not ethical, but there is no way i could make a step to be able to take lesser material rewards by myself for the exchange of doing something that i want to do with pride and contentment.

I can totally see and have met people that are very successful who do things they love doing and set up their own companies, I have only ever met wealthy people who work in or have made money using unethical means that have nowhere near the life that the decent people have. I justify what i do to everyone, my friends, my family but i can't look in the mirror and say i am ok with it!

Sorry for rambling, but the point is i ******* need AA, i really really need to get this, i dont want to be this person and want to stop zipping through the gap in the fence pretending that everyone else is dumb and i am the smart one!

It's difficult for me Pat to comprehend so i guess that is why they have a book and sponsors hehe Hope we both get it, wouldn't it be great:-)
Well well, my post from February...guess what happened...i did not go to AA, didn't have time for all that spiritual stuff there were bills to pay, and went back out, ended up in rehab and then back out, ended up with nothing, and finally now in AA working the steps with a sponsor...thanks for bumping this thread i hope you find a solution for you Pat:-)

Sobriety is now number 1 on the list that's for sure...i'd find all the above unbelievable if i hadn't actually lived it myself!
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Old 09-29-2009, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Patk View Post
Hi Again,

I have gotten to step 8 and have been unable to move on since an ammend involves repaying a debt to some people in Canada, going back to 1995. It is not much ($450 Cdn), but not being fully employed, with a wife and two kids, I am unable to pay it back right now, and hence move forward with the steps.
Patk
I had a financial amends to make. It was rather small, $350 USD and was from 1979. In 2008 I finally sent the amount of $700 (to allow for inflation). My clean date goes back to 2004. I should have made amends years ago but I didn't. I don't beat myself up over it either. What's the point? I was fortunate in that my effort at making amends was received very warmly.

My "advice" would be to continue working the steps. Remember, "make direct amends to such people whenever possible"... It's not possible for you right now but don't let that stop you from moving on.

Best of luck to you.
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