NoelleR

I think I'll allign myself with the founders of AA, and go along with what they had to say in this regard. I believe they all counted themselves as alcoholics .... and yes, they also referred to themselves as ex-problem drinkers .... see the followong

pg xxiv -- But as ex-problem drinkers, we can say that his explanation
makes good sense.

pg 18 -- But the ex-problem drinker who has found this solution, who is properly armed with facts about himself, can generally win the entire confidence of another alcoholic in a few hours.

pg 20 -- Our very lives, as ex-problem drinkers, depend upon our constant thought of others and how we may help meet their needs.

pg 115 -- Then that terrible tension which grips the home of every problem drinker will be lessened.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Soooooooo, I guess there is NO difference. Well, now, that was easy............. LOLOL


NoelleR

Pinkcuda

So is it safe to say that all Alcoholics are problem drinkers, but not all problem drinkers are alcoholics?

gerryP

Well since it is year 2009 and not 1935....

Is a 'problem drinker' synonymous with a 'heavy drinker' ? Is that what you are getting at?

Rather recent stats call heavy drinkers anything over one beer, glass of wine or 1 1/2 ounces of alcohol (mixed drink) per day or more than 7 in a week.

I know quite a few people who have a few drinks (2-3 per night) who might be called heavy drinkers, but life is status quo in all respects.

BackToSquareOne

I think there's a difference. If a problem drinker and an alcoholic both went to a party and got equally wasted the problem drinker would be able to "call it a day" when the party was over, the alcoholic would not. The alcoholic has a broken off switch, he can not just turn it off like the problem drinker can. Once the alcoholic gets alcohol in his system the obsession to drink seems to take full control.

The important thing to remember is that there can be a fine line between the two and it's very easy to cross over. Most of the heavy drinkers I know I would classify as "problem drinkers" not alcoholics because they still have a relative degree of control over it. I knew from day one that my "off switch" never worked like it should so it was never even a question for me.

doorknob

If they are able to "call it a day", then where does the problem lie? Does one have to go on extended benders to be considered an alcoholic?

CarolD

Hmm...

I think Gary is referring to this.... The site gave no guidelines for other levels of drinking
when I was last there.

Anway you cut it....Alcohol has been ruining lives for centeries.
It's as true today as it was in ancient times

The first drunkards I ever heard about were in the Bible
wine drinkers all.... as that's what was aailable.
I don't know how much they drank. They were called drunkards.

Think I will stay with my non drinking new life..

Tommyh

if someone has a drinking problem it suggest they already have a lack of control to me.If I could control it and use my head while drinking,I would not have had any problems.I consider a problem drinker a potientel or early stage alcoholic.



from another board I go to.We had a discussion some weeks ago about problem drinkers,potiental alcoholics,and real alcoholics and membership in AA

1) "To be gravely affected, one does not necessarily have to drink a long time nor take the quantities some of us have. This is particularly true of women. Potential female alcoholics often turn into the real thing and are gone beyond recall in a few years."

2) "Potential alcoholic that I was, I nearly failed my law course. At one of the finals I was too drunk to think or write. Though my drinking was not yet continuous, it disturbed my wife."

3) "Though you may be able to stop for a considerable period, you may yet be a potential alcoholic."

4) "But the actual or potential alcoholic, with hardly an exception, will be absolutely unable to stop drinking on the basis of self-knowledge."

quotes from the Big Book 1st Edition

BackToSquareOne

There's a difference between the two doorknob, the alcoholic will almost always get the craving and obsession. Going on extended benders really has nothing to do with it as all alcoholics are not binge drinkers. Once an alcoholic gets the booze in his system it's like lighting a fuse and the obsession quickly takes full control.

doorknob

I guess my thoughts are that if a person can get drunk and not have a habitual need to drink, then they really don't have a problem.

doorknob

That makes sense to me.

Pinkcuda

Problem drinking was defined to me as when drinking creates problems in your life. This includes drunken idiocy, wetting pants, hang overs, DUIs, embarrassing moments etc... Fraternities are full of problem drinkers that become normal drinkers once they graduate from college, get married, get a job. They resume normal lives that are not affected by the consumption of alcohol. They can take it or leave it. An alcoholic in no way, shape or form can ever become a "Normal drinker".

Iriss

I think a problem drinker has a problem with alcohol, as an alcoholic does, I dont care very much for lables or names, alcohol abuser, alcoholic, problems drinker, alcohol dependant... They are just names... Its not what you drink, not how much and when you drink, its about what happens when you do drink..No matter who or what you are...

Bamboozle

Many “problem drinkers” died because of their drinking. According to the definition given by some, I would be considered a “problem drinker” since I’ve been able to stop because of health issues. No mistaking it--my addiction will kill me. I’m still addicted---but I’m not using now.

Personally, I see no difference between the two, except this: I think that some professionals are loath to use the designation of “alcoholic” because there are so many negative stereotypes associated with the word. Perhaps it’s nicer/kinder to say “problem drinker”. I admit it…I personally detest the word “alcoholic”--I rarely use it. I prefer to refer to my drinking problem as an addiction.

Words aside, what’s important is whether or not alcohol is affecting your health (physical and/or mental), relationships, job, finances, and over-all quality of life. I’ve wasted a good six years doing nothing but school, work, and drinking--I’ve done nothing to improve my situation. I put my dreams on hold so I could drink. Blech. Now I’m working on becoming mentally stable enough to move on. I feel like I’m back at square one, but at least I’m on the grid.

navysteve

You make a valid point here. Just getting drunk does not mean one is a problem drinker or alcoholic. Many young people are doing this in college campuses and military installations as we speak ( and many other places) some will get into trouble and adjust their behavior ( designated drivers etc...) so they can continue to enjoy the effects of alcohol, some will learn when to say when. Some will switch from vodka to beer or learn to drive with only one eye open ( just kidding on the last one). I have friends who drink, I dated a bartender ( in sobriety) Once these people find out I am in AA there is that immediate discomfort about what they think my views are. I do not doubt the value of getting drunk for anyone. It can be the way to deal with a rough week. It is simply not an option for me because I am not a problem drinker ( but drinking was a problem). Booze was simply a symptom of a much bigger problem.

Tazman53

2 guys go to college, they both party thier butts off and get lousy grades, darn near flunking out. They both go home over the summer and both of thier parents raise hell with them telling them if they do that in thier freshman year they will not be going back to school for thier junior year.

They both go back for their sophmore year, one has a few beers on Friday night and maybe a few more over the rest of the weekend with no problem at all, and continues to do this the rest of the year with no issues at all, this one was a problem drinker. The other one swears he is going to just have a few Friday night and finds himself snot slinging drunk, he figures what the heck, I will do better next Friday and stays plowed the whole weekend swearing he will not repeat that weekends folly, well Friday rolls around and even though he swore after the 3rd beer he was going to stop, it happens all over again.......he also finds himself Monday thru Thursday thinking about drinking Friday, at a minimum a potential alcoholic. Just another way of putting it.

doorknob

I get what you're sayin', Taz... but I don't see the first college student as being a problem drinker. I see him as someone who went through a short phase of partying, an experimentation or right of passage. My brother went through a period like that in his teens and at some point it just ended. I, on the other hand, had anxiety and emotional issues, and found that I could feel better by drinking and smoking pot. Over the years it became habitual, and when it started to cause problems, I wasn't able to easily stop. I was a problem drinker and a problem pot smoker, and I was addicted to both. The pot smoking remained pretty constant, and except for a couple of bad periods (more frequent hangovers and blackouts), my drinking remained fairly constant, with maybe a slight increase as I developed some tolerance to alcohol. That tolerance seems to have tapered down as I've gotten older. With considerable effort, I had been able to cut both back to some extent, but still couldn't easily quit altogether. I had actually cut back the drinking to minimal daily levels, but was still a slave to it, and it was causing me more anxiety than it was relieving. I've had lots of starts and stops, and this time I've stayed substance free for the longest time since I was a teenager. I consider myself chemically dependent, as do the places where I have gone for treatment, but I'm not sure if I fit AA's definition of an alcoholic.

BackToSquareOne

You make a good point here doorknob and at face value it does make sense. If a person can turn it off at will and not feel a habitual need to drink you might think "Well then what's the problem". As I see it the problem drinker can still get into his share of trouble with DUI's, hangovers, doing things he later regrets etc. etc. The big difference is that he can quite easily turn it off when he needs to.

For example I have a female cousin whose sister was visiting (she lives many states away) and they decided to go out to a club and celebrate. On the way home she got a DUI and was put through the wringer with it. Now she's not really a drinker at all but still suffered the consequences because of a bad decision. So the moral of the story is that alcohol is an equal opportunity destroyer, you don't have to be an alcoholic to get in your share of trouble with it.

ReneeS

I've known a lot of problem drinkers, and the difference I've noticed is that although they enjoy partying and occasionally have too many, they really are able to go through long periods of not drinking, and are able to just have one or two, without a struggle. When they're going to "party," they make this decision beforehand, arrange for a designated driver, and usually do this when they have the following day off from work. On their day off, they're able to resist the urge to use the "hair of the dog" remedy, and tolerate the unpleasantness of the hangover. Also, problem drinkers don't get defensive about their drinking, and will laugh it off. Alcoholics don't have this kind of control (at least not consistently). That's the difference I see.

doorknob

Again... I just don't see the "problem" in this scenario. Sounds pretty normal and responsible to me.

ReneeS

Well, some of these problem drinkers I know have gotten DUI's (not for being stopped trashed, just over the limit), one fell off a bar table while drunk and bruised their entire body (could have broken their head open), all have shown up to work hung-over on occasion, and all have said or done things for which they were embarrassed the next day. So I think that's different from someone's who's just a "social" drinker, who stops at one or two drinks and doesn't get trashed. But it's also different from the alcoholic, who has absolutely no control over drinking.