ReneeS

I'm sure the original poster meant to be helpful, but I found his post to be patronizing ,and his views too rigid to be of much help to me. With regard to the comment that "religion hasn't yet cured alcoholism..and it has had a long track record, unsuccessfully in trying.." I would reply that although AA is helpful for many people, faith in God and the help of one's priest and spiritual friends can be equally valuable (as in my case). Everyone is different, and any road that leads to recovery is a good road (even if it isn't AA). There are recovery support groups for agnostics and atheists, too, and groups that don't follow the 12 steps--and I say it's all good.

navysteve

Amen, AA never claims to be a cure all. It also never claims to be the Alpha and Omega of alcoholism. The Big Book even says that if a new man wishes to try some other approach, our hats are off to him(or her). Page 95 makes it clear that we have no monopoly, we have a way that worked for us. I have no doubt that there are people who stay sober and happy without steps. But I will say that that is the uncommon solution in AA. That does not in any way invalidate that approach. I have known more than a few agnostics in AA with quality sobriety. They all did work the steps in a way that made sense to them. ANd I did part ways with them on approach and view of the program. But I always respect the other approaches to sobriety. Unfortunately, many in AA who feel that their "time" makes them subject matter experts on all things AA. My sponsor got sober over 50 years ago, he knew many of the original people in AA. I thank God that men like him do not appoint themselves to an upper echelon position that does not exist. He never flaunts his vast storehouse of wisdom around, never drops names, and yet he carries a message to all. He is old school catholic and has sponsored men who do not believe in any God at all, or heretics like me who do not believe in rising from the dead or water walking. He carries a message of hope to ALL alcoholics and understands that the realm of the spirit is roomy and all inclusive.

allport

Tomas I am neither young in years or in sobriety.

Thanks be for people like Navy Steve who understand that it is the result that matters.

You seem to me to be judgemental and downright selfish.

If you believe in god let him do the judging its not your job.

least

Tomas, your post was too long and too self satisfied to finish reading. I need help, not a long novel. make it short and sweet so I can live thru it. i'm having too many problems to read your novella. put it in one or two paragraphs, and put it more simply. Sorry, i just couldn't follow you for that long, i'm already depressed and exhausted. don't have the time to spend reading your dissertation. brevity is the soul of wit - the original meaning of 'wit' is 'wisdom'.

i also find you to be arrogant and quite unhelpful. you succeeded in p!ssing me off, and not helping me one bit. Go bore someone else, i'm quite bored already, thank you, and don't need your self righteous crap

i mistakenly thanked your second long winded post but cannot remove my thanks. my mistake

VeritasAequitas

Hi Tomas,
It think your heart is in the right place or at least I thought it was until you started to bash those that didn't conform to your point of view.

I'm sure I can speak for everyone when I say that we are very happy that you are sober today.

You should know that preaching the importance of sobriety is one thing and preaching how to get it is an entirely different ball of wax. No one likes to have their baby called ugly and if a Christian gets sober by way of AA and an atheist gets sober by way of Rational Recovery, then the same celebration should be granted to each.

It's not so much the journey but the destination that is important (contrary to the definition of success). You've insulted some folks by calling them young, narrow-minded, and even unable to comprehend a post. Look, we are all human and we make mistakes (Lord knows I can be a real terror sometimes, right RobB ?) but you don't get people to listen to you by commanding respect, you get people to listen to you by earning it.

Thanks for sharing.

RufusACanal

Veritas, you can really only speak for yourself, though I do agree with you. I can quickly despise someone who demands my attention with the disclaimer that they are an authority. Tomas, I believe you have something to offer besides the poor attempts at brow beating; hang around, make some friends, easy does it. I bang myself around enough without someone trying to do it for me. If you are recovered, then you might have an ample supply of humility available; use it please.

RufusACanal

Need I say more?

navysteve

Nope, I think that says it all.

nelco

I agree with this.

If it works use it.......if it dont work dont use it. I use AA and it works for me, other people seem to get sober in other ways. I dont know how they do it,and its none of my business.

VeritasAequitas

RufusACanal

How do I know of which I speak, because I have done the same as this man with the same results; they do not work.

Love and Peace, Love and Peace, Love and Peace Man!

Ringo Starr

least

Tomas, I was trying to be polite and private and send you a PM, but you are not receiving PMs. I was trying to keep my opinions of your post private but cannot do that. I have no idea why you're here on SR. But it seems that you feel superior in your long term sobriety and are trying to convince the rest of us of the benefits of 'your way' of reaching sobriety. Based on the responses, I'd say your way of imparting your wisdom isn't working too well.

If you have valuable experience to impart, why not do it, as suggested by others, with humility and the possibility that other ways of reaching and maintaining sobriety are possible. Your posts come across, to me, anyway, as lecturing, and in so many lectures, the attendees have fallen asleep or left the room in disgust or frustration. That is no way to win hearts and minds. I would be more than willing to hear you out if your arguments were shorter and less arrogant. After all your years of sobriety I'm sure you have valuable information to impart, but please do it in a less patronizing method, and more willing to admit to many ways to sobriety, not just your way.

As I said, I'd rather communicate privately but you aren't allowing that, so I will post my thoughts respectfully and as nicely as possible. When trying to preach to the hungry, food sends a better message than lectures on the causes of hunger or cures for it. If I'm hungry, don't lecture me on why or how I became hungry, just feed me. That I can understand.

respectfully, least

Tomas

I found that in regards to alcoholism..."Kindness can kill"...Some are looking for finding that person or those persons "who feel more sorry for them than they do for thmselves"... It has a certain seductivenesss to it...and will drink till they find that impossible situation... baiting those who will even listen..I've seen it over and over again..that leads right to the grave...One way to illecit sympathy is to fail..someone will be around to pick you up... the immaturity...LOOKING FOR MOMMY

Most practicing alcoholics...many here....(that's why I posted in this forum.)..need shocking bluntness..the stark naked truth...to find the weakness in their armor of closemindedness, dishonesty and lack of commitment.. Many who are suffering from alcoholism need o be hit with a 2 by 4 to have the light of reason enter into their spirit..Like jump starting an engine into action so to speak...a splash of cold water thrown in their face..

I think also, there are probably many here who play games..I call it the U-Tube comment phenonom...deluding others and self as well...There is a certain seductive quality to that activity..Oh I've tested that theory...it's fun...Watch a video on U-Tube in a area of " having no prior knowledge"...learn the gist of the comments...and based upon that criteria only...enter your own..anyone reading might even think you are quite the expert... an afficianato...I got a "plus two rating" on one of my comments..knowing absolutly nothing...That of course is part of the phenonom and challenge of message boarding unfortunately... .one is un-accountable because they are unreachable..and untouchable..The game is to kill the messager..by joining the choir...THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I QUALIFY THE LENGTH OF MY SOBRIETY..Certainly not to impress anyone here or at a meeting...My mind doesn't work in that direction.. like some I've read believe.."perhaps if they looked at themselves..deep down a bit envious"..To busy with my daily affairs...Knowing that now...I recognize that if I message...I'm also dealing with the KOOK FACTOR...it goes with the territory..

But many who are afflicted with this illness, do not realize the clock is ticking..an NOW...Be discriminating and listen to people with experience...Don't give up..THAT"S THE MESSAGE OF THE POST

The comment of the guy who said he'd rather drink...then listen to whatever?...That empty headedness is also part of my EXPERIENCE...I generally offer them a buck or two and say "let me buy you a drink.".You get no smpathy from me..My job is to put it out there..whether you lick it up is your business..My first taste of humility was in the realiation that I was LUCKY to be in the room for a second meeting. That was the gift a gift from God..the awakening of Truth...The awakening to the start of a sober life..

Tomas
sobriety date..Jan 12, 1974
"Sailing my boat around the Word...Happy, Joyous and Free...but accountable to the still suffering alcoholic

Philly

This post actually made me happy that I am trying a different approach. I only have 6+months but I think SR has helped me more than AA could have. I don't need another addiction. I have learned that I could and should not try moderation without ever relapsing. I did agree with the first paragraph but I believe there are many more paths that can be taken to get where we are all trying to go.

Least/Jules and some of the others made me LOL which is a great recovery tool. I can remember thinking I am never going to be able to laugh and be happy again. It is coming back slowly but it is coming back.

least

Ok Tomas, I bow to your superiority. No more arguments from me, you obviously already know it all. I've learned all I'm going to learn from you, but it wasn't the lesson you thought you were teaching. I've learned from your example what NOT to do. Thank you for throwing it in my face. I'll stick with my true friends here, no matter how much sobriety or knowledge they may have. At least they love me and don't talk down to me. And I've been taught by the '2 x 4' method and didn't learn much, except, again, what pain feels like. So thanks, but no thanks, for your teaching method.

I feel sort of sorry for you. It must be very lonely there at the top.

Tomas

Good luck to you Least...I can tell you if you had a boat..and tried to deal with Customs in various ports, around the world at the same time with those creatures...more than a couple of mutts have gone overboard.."What were they thinking"?

No it's not lonely at the top...if that's how YOU classify it..I feel Blessed and maybe gifted..and would like to see others get it..

I was an atheist too...and then I was given the Truth and set free..Unlike me...Maybe you have not reached bottom yet..The elevator stops where you want to get off.

Again Good Luck to you son

least

The '2x4' method of teaching only instills fear of the teacher. I'm glad I'm not your child.

yeahgr8

Least I think they way you are doing it is great if it is working for you thats for sure and you bet you have loads of friends here to support you, including me!

I did get something from Tomas's post as i said before and it has kicked me a bit into going to an AA meeting so i can't say his approach has not worked for me, although i agree he does have a unique posting technique lol but maybe what i needed.

Anyways keep the gloves on please, no more bare knuckle;-)

Seriously though i am really nervous about going to a meeting but will do it this week and post a new thread about how it goes

least

I was trying to be kind and polite and understanding, but all I got from Tomas' teaching was another hit with a 2x4. All I am learning from him is how to duck and treat bruises. I WAS wearing gloves, but was still kicked by the 'teacher'. I'll have no more of this class, I've learned more than I ever wanted to know. God help the 'still suffering' alcoholic treated with his 2x4 love.

Toomutch

I've learned nothing from you Thomas - is this thread meant to be a joke. The things you have said about others are deplorable. IMO those who think they know it all actually know very little, I feel sorry for you.