Trying to stick with the doctor's plan
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
I agree that you have to put your trust in the hands of someone else as it seems you cannot pull this off yourself (you are not alone in this).
I just don't see the effectiveness of the alcohol recovery team putting you on top priority...seems like you are another name on a list, but I am looking from the outside. AA has no opinion on medical matters - but I have been detoxed from physical states where it was not safe for me to stop drinking (I would have stroked, or had seizures)..but I was safely withdrawn, medically...then I got on to recovering from alcoholism, which no psychiatrist or alcohol expert helped with. I went to someone who used to be like me (couldn't stop drinking) and no longer did (was sober, happy, had an ANSWER). Meetings tend to be full of people like this.
It's there if you want it. If you prefer to wait around for the alcohol recovery team - that is certainly your choice...I tend to think there is probably some happy medium.
I just don't see the effectiveness of the alcohol recovery team putting you on top priority...seems like you are another name on a list, but I am looking from the outside. AA has no opinion on medical matters - but I have been detoxed from physical states where it was not safe for me to stop drinking (I would have stroked, or had seizures)..but I was safely withdrawn, medically...then I got on to recovering from alcoholism, which no psychiatrist or alcohol expert helped with. I went to someone who used to be like me (couldn't stop drinking) and no longer did (was sober, happy, had an ANSWER). Meetings tend to be full of people like this.
It's there if you want it. If you prefer to wait around for the alcohol recovery team - that is certainly your choice...I tend to think there is probably some happy medium.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 263
seems like you are another name on a list
When I first approached my GP and psychiatrist I had absolutely no idea that it would take so long to get things moving. That said, I guess that right now I need to go through this bit of the process in order to stop drinking safely. Then, as you say, I can start to learn to live sober, and I guess that's where AA may be able to help me.At this stage I'm really not discounting any possibilities for help. But even this is a worry. I worry that I could gorge on help and charity, thrust myself eagerly into recovery proudly waving flags to fanfares with abandon, hang everything out in the wind... and then, at the slightest hint of failure, scurry pathetically away and withdraw utterly and completely from every damn thing. It's happened before.
I guess I'm just worried that it might not work. And I haven't even stopped drinking yet. God help me.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
I think that the hint of failure is essential to recovery. When I first started ...everything seemed backwards, went against what I thought I knew worked. Of course, I couldn't fix myself and had no idea on what recovery really meant - I thought take away my daily drinking and things will get better...not quite the case.
Alcoholism is practically a death sentence - so many just don't make it, or even enjoy life after awhile.
There is a thread (I think in the 12-step forum) that is about "what made you think you couldn't do it WITHOUT AA"... my answer I will share here as it seems relevant. You say that you are worried that it might not work - a genuine fear to have. I got to a point where I thought maybe it COULD work (I was seeing things backwards to my normal thought pattern).
Worry <> Hope
Surrender <> Victory
These things have taken on new meaning for me...and I think it can be true for you.
Only suggestion I have - pray. Don't pray to get sober, don't pray to know what to do - pray for God to HELP YOU. It works.
Alcoholism is practically a death sentence - so many just don't make it, or even enjoy life after awhile.
There is a thread (I think in the 12-step forum) that is about "what made you think you couldn't do it WITHOUT AA"... my answer I will share here as it seems relevant. You say that you are worried that it might not work - a genuine fear to have. I got to a point where I thought maybe it COULD work (I was seeing things backwards to my normal thought pattern).
Worry <> Hope
Surrender <> Victory
These things have taken on new meaning for me...and I think it can be true for you.
Only suggestion I have - pray. Don't pray to get sober, don't pray to know what to do - pray for God to HELP YOU. It works.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 263
pray for God to HELP YOU
I know this comes up over and over... so I apologise. I am an inveterate blasphemer in that I constantly use "God" and "Jesus" in my everyday speak, but any true relationship with God ended for me nearly 20 years ago. Spiritually I fought on for a few more years, but I would quite honestly say, and with real sadness, that I am now spiritually void. I am not a happy atheist, but it seems to me that the hands of science and knowledge have essentially strangled God to death.
I was a humanist for a while, but I soon learned that that way lay madness. Every high humanistic ideal invariably becomes a great excuse for Bachanal hedonism - which was great for a while, don't get me wrong, but (haha) it's really no life.
So, there's nothing. Nothing at all.
Gold Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: It's raining again!
Posts: 2,494
Hi BPB, just got caught up on your post. I trust my shrink all the way. I had to trust someone at first. AA is for my drinking and my shrink is for my thinking. My sponcer bless her is really into God to where as I'm not. it's Ok though because we are both good people and have one thing in common and that is not to drink today. She is a school teacher where as I'm a student and a waitress. We in AA come from all walks of life. I'm not saying AA is the only way,but it's the way how I go for my drinking problems. At any rate. I'm glad you are here and reaching out!
6/20/08
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,467
You can't follow that simple plan, because that plan is NOT simple for an alcoholic!
You have a lot of good advice here, bovine. Please keep us updated. We care.
And God....is not a prerequisite for sobriety.
You're okay.
You have a lot of good advice here, bovine. Please keep us updated. We care.
And God....is not a prerequisite for sobriety.
You're okay.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 263
Thank you coffeenut. I am not coping.
Just to make things clear for right now. I have drunk twelve cans tonight, twice my "allowance." I tried to stick to my limit, and thought I had it, but then... I didn't.
This and that tonight, it was fun. It was undeniably sick and sad, but it was also other things. I was sad and sick every step, but sometimes I smiled.
Just to make things clear for right now. I have drunk twelve cans tonight, twice my "allowance." I tried to stick to my limit, and thought I had it, but then... I didn't.
This and that tonight, it was fun. It was undeniably sick and sad, but it was also other things. I was sad and sick every step, but sometimes I smiled.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 32
I don't think you should feel badly for not being able to "stick with the plan." It's not a realistic plan. If I could have consistently limited my drinking on a daily basis, I wouldn't be on this site now. I hope you'll go to an ER and say whatever you have to say in order to get admitted so you can get detoxed. Yes, there are people who abuse the system--but you're not one of them--you want to get well. So do whatever you have to do to get detoxed ASAP--you're worth it.
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
bPB you have gotten some excellent support and advice, the 2 things I would say to try first is:
1. Go to the Salvation Army and lay it all out on the line and see if they can help you.
2. If you get no where with the Salvation Army then grab the phone and ring up your local AA hotline and tell them what is up.
If you are worried about being to dependant on the Salvation Army, do not worry about that, they main purpose is to get people back on their feet with help...... not to help them to death!!! LOL
In regards to the AA hotline, ask to speak to a lady if a man answers. Let me let you in on something else about AA hotlines, they are manned by recovering alcoholics!!!! In other words the person you will be talking to has been where you are at now, they will probably have been through the UK health system and can give you some excellent suggestions on how to speed the process up or alternatives like the Salvation Army.
Nothing in the world wrong with trusting them, but in the long run I found that my ultimate trust had to be in a Power greater then myself to stay sober.
BTW why not go to some AA meetings, it does not matter if you have been drinking or not, I was fall down drunk when I went to my first meeting and I was made more then welcome.
One very important thing to remember about AA..... the only requiremnt for membership is a desire to stop drinking, one does not need to be sober to attend meetings. If one had to be sober to go to AA there would be no need for AA because they would have already gotten sober.
1. Go to the Salvation Army and lay it all out on the line and see if they can help you.
2. If you get no where with the Salvation Army then grab the phone and ring up your local AA hotline and tell them what is up.
If you are worried about being to dependant on the Salvation Army, do not worry about that, they main purpose is to get people back on their feet with help...... not to help them to death!!! LOL
In regards to the AA hotline, ask to speak to a lady if a man answers. Let me let you in on something else about AA hotlines, they are manned by recovering alcoholics!!!! In other words the person you will be talking to has been where you are at now, they will probably have been through the UK health system and can give you some excellent suggestions on how to speed the process up or alternatives like the Salvation Army.
But I have to trust my GP, and I have to trust my psychiatist, and I have to trust the alcohol recovery team.
BTW why not go to some AA meetings, it does not matter if you have been drinking or not, I was fall down drunk when I went to my first meeting and I was made more then welcome.
One very important thing to remember about AA..... the only requiremnt for membership is a desire to stop drinking, one does not need to be sober to attend meetings. If one had to be sober to go to AA there would be no need for AA because they would have already gotten sober.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 263
Hi all, just posting an update. I actually tried to do this a day or so ago, spent a while writing up the news, posted it... to discover that SR was down and the Internet ate my words! Argh! It's taken me a while to get around to writing it all again!
Ok, I went to see the guy from the alcohol recovery team on Wednesday last week. It turns out that I'd seen this guy before, some years ago, on a previous trip through the system. That time, I remember, I didn't want to be there, had no interest, and didn't like the guy. This time, I want to be there, have a great deal of interest... but I'm still not sure about this guy.
He remembered me, to my surprise, but it was difficult to gauge what he thought about all that time before. I just hoped that we could, well, get on with what we had to do now.
We talked about what had been going on recently, how much I was drinking, when, why... that sort of thing. I told him I'd started drinking a lower strength alcohol, and got down to eight cans a night. Ok, good, he said. Keep it up. Just keep lowering the number of cans, taking one off the count every three or four days. That way, he reckoned, by about mid-March I'd be alcohol free.
I blinked a bit. But he assured me I could do it. I asked if I'd have any drug support, he said see how I go. I asked if I should take vitamins, he said no just eat a healthy diet. I asked if my blood pressure and things would be monitored, and he said only by me. If I felt very unwell, I should let them know. Otherwise, I just needed to get through it.
And that's it. I see him again next week. Have I, this week, managed to reduce my can intake to six a night? No. Do I feel ok? No. Am I having withdrawals? Yes, I'm suffering sweats, severe hot flushes, tremors, agitation, depression, nausea, light-headedness, and time to time I can be irritable as hell. Do I feel as if I'm making progress? Hell no.
But, I'll carry on. I'm keeping my drinking diary, recording my thoughts, and I'm seeing him again on Wednesday next week. I'm really not sure that there's going to be any more help offered though, so I guess that's that.
As for AA and the Salvation Army, well, I've spoken on the phone with someone from AA, but I haven't got myself to a meeting yet. I know that I must, but I just can't seem to bring myself to it. I'm... well, for want of a better word, scared. Plain chicken. Same with the Salvation Army. Three times I rang their number, let it ring a couple of times, then rang off quick in case somebody answered. Madness.
So that's more or less the story so far. The only good thing is that my wife is at least giving me some room to do this. She's... trying to believe, to help, but she can see that it's not really working, and her patience is hardly going to last forever.
I have reduced my weekly units, for whatever that's worth. But it's so hard. Every day is another purgatory. Every day is another clock watch until I can start on my rations. I wonder over and again if I might as well go and get myself completely smashed out of my mind, then wander on to a motorway. That'd force them to seriously detox me there and then... that, or scrape me up off the damn floor.
Ok, I went to see the guy from the alcohol recovery team on Wednesday last week. It turns out that I'd seen this guy before, some years ago, on a previous trip through the system. That time, I remember, I didn't want to be there, had no interest, and didn't like the guy. This time, I want to be there, have a great deal of interest... but I'm still not sure about this guy.
He remembered me, to my surprise, but it was difficult to gauge what he thought about all that time before. I just hoped that we could, well, get on with what we had to do now.
We talked about what had been going on recently, how much I was drinking, when, why... that sort of thing. I told him I'd started drinking a lower strength alcohol, and got down to eight cans a night. Ok, good, he said. Keep it up. Just keep lowering the number of cans, taking one off the count every three or four days. That way, he reckoned, by about mid-March I'd be alcohol free.
I blinked a bit. But he assured me I could do it. I asked if I'd have any drug support, he said see how I go. I asked if I should take vitamins, he said no just eat a healthy diet. I asked if my blood pressure and things would be monitored, and he said only by me. If I felt very unwell, I should let them know. Otherwise, I just needed to get through it.
And that's it. I see him again next week. Have I, this week, managed to reduce my can intake to six a night? No. Do I feel ok? No. Am I having withdrawals? Yes, I'm suffering sweats, severe hot flushes, tremors, agitation, depression, nausea, light-headedness, and time to time I can be irritable as hell. Do I feel as if I'm making progress? Hell no.
But, I'll carry on. I'm keeping my drinking diary, recording my thoughts, and I'm seeing him again on Wednesday next week. I'm really not sure that there's going to be any more help offered though, so I guess that's that.
As for AA and the Salvation Army, well, I've spoken on the phone with someone from AA, but I haven't got myself to a meeting yet. I know that I must, but I just can't seem to bring myself to it. I'm... well, for want of a better word, scared. Plain chicken. Same with the Salvation Army. Three times I rang their number, let it ring a couple of times, then rang off quick in case somebody answered. Madness.
So that's more or less the story so far. The only good thing is that my wife is at least giving me some room to do this. She's... trying to believe, to help, but she can see that it's not really working, and her patience is hardly going to last forever.
I have reduced my weekly units, for whatever that's worth. But it's so hard. Every day is another purgatory. Every day is another clock watch until I can start on my rations. I wonder over and again if I might as well go and get myself completely smashed out of my mind, then wander on to a motorway. That'd force them to seriously detox me there and then... that, or scrape me up off the damn floor.
Next stop: real life
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 990
If I were in your shoes, I'd seek a second opinion. I'm very suspicious of any AODA professional who recommends the tapering approach above all else. What reason are they giving for not straight-up detoxing you?
Congrats on your reduction in intake, though. That's something I was never able to successfully do.
Congrats on your reduction in intake, though. That's something I was never able to successfully do.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 32
"Every day is another purgatory. Every day is another clock watch until I can start on my rations. I wonder over and again if I might as well go and get myself completely smashed out of my mind, then wander on to a motorway. That'd force them to seriously detox me there and then... that, or scrape me up off the damn floor."
Okay, you now officially qualify for admission to a psychiatric unit, where they will detox you from the worse of what you're going through in about 4-5 days. You've tried to use the system in the way it is set up--but it's failing you--go around the system and ask for the psy admission. If you tell them you're suicidal, they'll have to admit you, and they'll have to detox you. Fun? No. But you're already in purgatory now, so you might as well go the distance.
The mental health and addictions staff who are supposed to be "helping" you are making me angry--I'd like to kick each of them in the butt!
Okay, you now officially qualify for admission to a psychiatric unit, where they will detox you from the worse of what you're going through in about 4-5 days. You've tried to use the system in the way it is set up--but it's failing you--go around the system and ask for the psy admission. If you tell them you're suicidal, they'll have to admit you, and they'll have to detox you. Fun? No. But you're already in purgatory now, so you might as well go the distance.
The mental health and addictions staff who are supposed to be "helping" you are making me angry--I'd like to kick each of them in the butt!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Glitzville
Posts: 334
It's very bizarre how the medical establishment in the UK treats alcoholism. When I first started coming to grips with stopping the drink the first online site I discovered was a British recovery forum, somewhat like this one, but vastly different as the thrust was moderation/taper management. Most of the posters had the same experience you did and quickly discovered that moderation didn't cut it and were supporting one another with abstinence.
That's why I feel you won't get the kind of medical support you are looking for from your recovery team. It's just not done in the UK the same way it's done here in the U.S. I suppose you can suffer your way through it and get down to hardly any alcohol, but man, you are really prolonging your misery.
If it were me, I'd swallow my fear (and I had plenty) and get to an AA meeting. The reasoning is simple: other alcoholics know what you're going through, know the system there, and can at least give you some face-to-face support. You won't be dealing with this alone. It's really not the big deal we make of it in our minds. No one knows what it's like but another alcoholic, not even doctors sometimes.
Nothing to lose, bpb. Glad to see you again, my friend.
Hugs to you,
Donna
That's why I feel you won't get the kind of medical support you are looking for from your recovery team. It's just not done in the UK the same way it's done here in the U.S. I suppose you can suffer your way through it and get down to hardly any alcohol, but man, you are really prolonging your misery.
If it were me, I'd swallow my fear (and I had plenty) and get to an AA meeting. The reasoning is simple: other alcoholics know what you're going through, know the system there, and can at least give you some face-to-face support. You won't be dealing with this alone. It's really not the big deal we make of it in our minds. No one knows what it's like but another alcoholic, not even doctors sometimes.
Nothing to lose, bpb. Glad to see you again, my friend.
Hugs to you,
Donna
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
What I would do...
get into the salvation Army de tox center
The Sally has been de toxing alcoholics
sucessfully for many many years.
In about 3 or 4 days later you will be alcohol free..
Then use AA for face to face support
to keep moving forward with your life.
...Hope you will find your answers
get into the salvation Army de tox center
The Sally has been de toxing alcoholics
sucessfully for many many years.
In about 3 or 4 days later you will be alcohol free..
Then use AA for face to face support
to keep moving forward with your life.
...Hope you will find your answers
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 263
tellus:
Absolutely none. My psychiatrist did say to my wife that if everyone with a drinking problem was put in the hospitals they would be overflowing, but the guy from the recovery team didn't even discuss it. He just told me about The Plan.
Thanks. It was sooo hard - and guess what... it's sneaking back up again. 
ReneeS:
I'm starting to - at least with the Salvation Army at first, but I will take it up more firmly with the recovery team and my psychiatrist.
LOL I'm so tempted to tell them that they're inviting the wrath of forces unknown next time I see them... !!
desertdonna:
Yes, I think you've hit several nails on the head there...!
Yup, you're right. I'm going to go to at least one this weekend, and will find out more about mid-week ones ongoing.
CarolD:
Sounds like perfect advice. I've been trying to call the Salvation Army today, though I haven't got through yet. I have decided that I am going to get some kind of detox help one way or another, and yes, that I'll need the ongoing help of AA... and SR, and perhaps the SA, and indeed any other help available from anywhere anyhow!!
Thanks so much to everyone for their thoughts, prayers, hugs and advice. I'm feeling a bit of resolve this morning, and I know a good deal of that is due to the help I'm receiving here. Still, how long it will last I don't know, so while it's here I'm making use of it and getting on the phone! I'll post back on progress.
What reason are they giving for not straight-up detoxing you?
Congrats on your reduction in intake, though. That's something I was never able to successfully do.
ReneeS:
... go around the system and ask for the psy admission ...
The mental health and addictions staff who are supposed to be "helping" you are making me angry--I'd like to kick each of them in the butt
desertdonna:
That's why I feel you won't get the kind of medical support you are looking for from your recovery team. It's just not done in the UK the same way it's done here in the U.S. I suppose you can suffer your way through it and get down to hardly any alcohol, but man, you are really prolonging your misery.
If it were me, I'd swallow my fear (and I had plenty) and get to an AA meeting.
CarolD:
... get into the salvation Army de tox center ... In about 3 or 4 days later you will be alcohol free. Then use AA for face to face support to keep moving forward with your life.
I've been trying to call the Salvation Army today, though I haven't got through yet. I have decided that I am going to get some kind of detox help one way or another, and yes, that I'll need the ongoing help of AA... and SR, and perhaps the SA, and indeed any other help available from anywhere anyhow!!Thanks so much to everyone for their thoughts, prayers, hugs and advice. I'm feeling a bit of resolve this morning, and I know a good deal of that is due to the help I'm receiving here. Still, how long it will last I don't know, so while it's here I'm making use of it and getting on the phone! I'll post back on progress.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
