Struggling with the Term "Alcoholic"…
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
That made me chuckle....Who told you it wasn't? Your bartender. LOL
This is always such a heated debate...disease or not. Interestingly enough the AMA originally called alcohol abuse a disorder. The change came about when Marty Mann (first woman sober with aa) used her position as founder of the NCA (National Counsel for Alcoholism) to promote the disease concept through Jellinek.
The A.P.A. does not define alcoholism as a disease.
The A.P.A. defines two alcohol-related mental illnesses that are caused by drinking too much alcohol — mental illness number 305.00 "Alcohol Abuse", and 303.90 "Alcohol Dependence". But there is no "alcoholism".
Maybe the bartender was a bit of a history buff.
This is always such a heated debate...disease or not. Interestingly enough the AMA originally called alcohol abuse a disorder. The change came about when Marty Mann (first woman sober with aa) used her position as founder of the NCA (National Counsel for Alcoholism) to promote the disease concept through Jellinek.
The A.P.A. does not define alcoholism as a disease.
The A.P.A. defines two alcohol-related mental illnesses that are caused by drinking too much alcohol — mental illness number 305.00 "Alcohol Abuse", and 303.90 "Alcohol Dependence". But there is no "alcoholism".
Maybe the bartender was a bit of a history buff.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 541
I think even Wilson was originally leery of calling it a disease, because he didn't want to engage in a pointless, controversial debate with the medical profession.
I believe he preferred 'malady'. ( do I have this right?)
I think Abe Lincoln had the best insight into us alkies :
In my judgment, such of us as have never fallen victims, have been spared more by the absence of appetite, than from any mental or moral superiority over those who have. Indeed, I believe, if we take habitual drunkards as a class, their heads and their hearts will bear an advantageous comparison with those of any other class. There seems ever to have been a proneness in the brilliant, and warm-blooded to fall into this vice. The demon of intemperance ever seems to have delighted in sucking the blood of genius and of generosity. What one of us but can call to mind some dear relative, more promising in youth than
I believe he preferred 'malady'. ( do I have this right?)
I think Abe Lincoln had the best insight into us alkies :
In my judgment, such of us as have never fallen victims, have been spared more by the absence of appetite, than from any mental or moral superiority over those who have. Indeed, I believe, if we take habitual drunkards as a class, their heads and their hearts will bear an advantageous comparison with those of any other class. There seems ever to have been a proneness in the brilliant, and warm-blooded to fall into this vice. The demon of intemperance ever seems to have delighted in sucking the blood of genius and of generosity. What one of us but can call to mind some dear relative, more promising in youth than
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
What Wilson said when specifically asked about alcoholism as disease after he had addressed the annual meeting of the National Catholic Clergy Conference on Alcoholism in 1961:
We have never called alcoholism a disease because, technically speaking, it is not a disease entity. For example, there is no such thing as heart disease. Instead there are many separate heart ailments, or combinations of them. It is something like that with alcoholism. Therefore we did not wish to get in wrong with the medical profession by pronouncing alcoholism a disease entity. Therefore we always called it an illness, or a malady -- a far safer term for us to use.
I think Abe was on to something!
We have never called alcoholism a disease because, technically speaking, it is not a disease entity. For example, there is no such thing as heart disease. Instead there are many separate heart ailments, or combinations of them. It is something like that with alcoholism. Therefore we did not wish to get in wrong with the medical profession by pronouncing alcoholism a disease entity. Therefore we always called it an illness, or a malady -- a far safer term for us to use.
I think Abe was on to something!
Today's Muse
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West end
Posts: 1,081
I'm an alcoholic. There is no doubt about that. Is it a disease? I don't know and I don't really care any more. I do know it is a problem. A life or death problem. Today, I choose not to drink. I haven't had alcohol in my system for years. I'm now able to make that choice. Once I choose to take that first drink, I lose that choice. The compulsion and obsession is set free and the insanity begins. It is what it is. Today I know that, but I had to test the waters and learn the hard way.
where the light is
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,763
I would decide to go out for a few drinks and end up drinking for three days straight. I would abandon my wife and two small children. I would abandon my job. I wouldn’t change my clothes or shower. I would sometimes end up in dangerous bars or parties with violent people. Sometimes wake up bloody & bruised. Spend $600 to $1,000. A 40 year old man staggering around bars, restaurants, and the streets - blacked out.
After each bender, I would choose to quit drinking (actually, a counselor told me it wasn’t a choice, I was toxic and just couldn’t drink anymore). I could go days, weeks, sometimes months with my resolve intact. But eventually, despite all the **** I put my loved ones, my employer and myself through, I would decide to drink again. Over and over and over.
I’m a reasonably sane guy! – good education, good career, great family, into fitness, plenty of hobbies. If it’s all about rational decision making, why didn’t I quit after a few of these benders? Lack of will-power? Weak? For years, it was obvious that I could not handle alcohol - once I start, I can’t stop. And the damage was mounting.
Everyday, I see street people out in 20 below weather, looking desperately for their next drink. These people have lost everything and are dying right in front of our eyes. Yet they still choose to drink?
Despite my drinking history and what it has cost me, I know that I am one lucky guy, fortunate that I did get help when I did and was able to quit drinking. It would have gotten so much worse, I have no doubt. Those three day benders were getting closer & closer together.
To me, it doesn’t really matter if I call alcoholism a disease, a mental illness, or an allergy. I just know that alcoholism is progressive. I think at some point, our choice isn’t so much to quit drinking but a choice to get help. Maybe there is another point where even that choice is gone.
After each bender, I would choose to quit drinking (actually, a counselor told me it wasn’t a choice, I was toxic and just couldn’t drink anymore). I could go days, weeks, sometimes months with my resolve intact. But eventually, despite all the **** I put my loved ones, my employer and myself through, I would decide to drink again. Over and over and over.
I’m a reasonably sane guy! – good education, good career, great family, into fitness, plenty of hobbies. If it’s all about rational decision making, why didn’t I quit after a few of these benders? Lack of will-power? Weak? For years, it was obvious that I could not handle alcohol - once I start, I can’t stop. And the damage was mounting.
Everyday, I see street people out in 20 below weather, looking desperately for their next drink. These people have lost everything and are dying right in front of our eyes. Yet they still choose to drink?
Despite my drinking history and what it has cost me, I know that I am one lucky guy, fortunate that I did get help when I did and was able to quit drinking. It would have gotten so much worse, I have no doubt. Those three day benders were getting closer & closer together.
To me, it doesn’t really matter if I call alcoholism a disease, a mental illness, or an allergy. I just know that alcoholism is progressive. I think at some point, our choice isn’t so much to quit drinking but a choice to get help. Maybe there is another point where even that choice is gone.
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