Struggling with the Term "Alcoholic"…
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 196
Originally Posted by tommyk 
[B]
(2 + 2 doesn't have to equal 4... 2 + 2 can equal 'four', both are correct, the result is the same.)
(2 + 2 doesn't have to equal 4... 2 + 2 can equal 'four', both are correct, the result is the same.)
Eclectics Anonymous
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 286
Originally Posted by TheMaster
Me compared to the stats...
SOCIAL DRINKERS — Most Americans are characterized as social drinkers. Statistics indicate, however, that one of every 16 drinkers will become alcoholic.
- I never was too into the social drinking. I wasn't a frequent bar or club go-er, except a breif period in the mid-90s...
I can count on one hand the number of times I have been in a bar and maybe on two hands how many people (including familiy) that I drank in front of. Always in a very controlled way.
WARNING SIGNS — The individual begins to drink more frequently and more than his associates. He drinks for confidence or to tolerate or escape problems. No party or other occasion is complete without a couple of drinks. Driving and drinking become routine.
- I drank more frequently (when younger) and in larger quantities (then & recently). I always attributed it to because I was a big boy. I weigh 250, now. Almost my entire adult life, I have been over 230... So more mass calls for more booze.
I was 5'7 and 110 pounds and could easily drink an entire bottle of Jameson on my own in one evening.
EARLY ALCOHOLISM — With increasing frequency, the individual drinks too much. "Blackouts," or temporary amnesia, occur during or following drinking episodes. He drinks more rapidly than others, sneaks drinks and in other ways conceals the quantity that he drinks. He resents any reference to his drinking habits.
- I had blackouts from the get-go. I never really gradually got in that stage. My friends and I always drank to get drunk. Whatever we had would be finished before crashing... I did conceal it a bit. I live in my brother's house, who does not drink or wants it in his house. So I concealed it, slightly. All I did was keep it in my room and not on the counter in the kitchen. But I'd have done that, anyway...
Only time I hid alcohol was in a flask when I went to visit my 90 year old Grandma who would have been upset to say the least.
BASIC ALCOHOLISM — The individual begins to lose control as to the time, place and amount of his drinking. He gets drunk unintentionally. He hides and protects his liquor supply. He drinks to overcome the hangover from his prior drinking. He tries new patterns of drinking as to time and place of drinking. He attempts cures by moving to new locations or by changing his drinking companions.
- Never really did these things... I'm not one to hide much (except above (brother's house), out of necessity although I have talked to him drunk enough times for him to figure it out...). I don't broadcast it, either...
CHRONIC ALCOHOLISM — The individual becomes a loner in his drinking. He develops alibis, excuses and rationalizations to cover up or explain his drinking. Personality and behavior changes occur that affect all relationships — family, employment, community. Extended binges, physical tremors, hallucinations and delirium, complete rejection of social reality, malnutrition with accompanying illness and disease and early death all occur as chronic alcoholism progresses.
- I became a loner, period. I am what some consider "eccentric". I do not make friends, easily. I don't hate everyone, but it takes a bit of time to become "friends". I don't think alcohol caused that. Life did. Personality & behavior, I think it did get affected. I was a lot more depressed with systematic drinking. I had way more outbursts of anger. All that seems to have just vanished in the last few weeks. I don't think it really affected anyone, though. No one that mattered, anyway... No extended binges (only the regular night-time sessions that never got longer), no tremors or the rest of that stuff, except diabetes.
That's the sole reason I quit.
SOCIAL DRINKERS — Most Americans are characterized as social drinkers. Statistics indicate, however, that one of every 16 drinkers will become alcoholic.
- I never was too into the social drinking. I wasn't a frequent bar or club go-er, except a breif period in the mid-90s...
I can count on one hand the number of times I have been in a bar and maybe on two hands how many people (including familiy) that I drank in front of. Always in a very controlled way.
WARNING SIGNS — The individual begins to drink more frequently and more than his associates. He drinks for confidence or to tolerate or escape problems. No party or other occasion is complete without a couple of drinks. Driving and drinking become routine.
- I drank more frequently (when younger) and in larger quantities (then & recently). I always attributed it to because I was a big boy. I weigh 250, now. Almost my entire adult life, I have been over 230... So more mass calls for more booze.
I was 5'7 and 110 pounds and could easily drink an entire bottle of Jameson on my own in one evening.
EARLY ALCOHOLISM — With increasing frequency, the individual drinks too much. "Blackouts," or temporary amnesia, occur during or following drinking episodes. He drinks more rapidly than others, sneaks drinks and in other ways conceals the quantity that he drinks. He resents any reference to his drinking habits.
- I had blackouts from the get-go. I never really gradually got in that stage. My friends and I always drank to get drunk. Whatever we had would be finished before crashing... I did conceal it a bit. I live in my brother's house, who does not drink or wants it in his house. So I concealed it, slightly. All I did was keep it in my room and not on the counter in the kitchen. But I'd have done that, anyway...
Only time I hid alcohol was in a flask when I went to visit my 90 year old Grandma who would have been upset to say the least.
BASIC ALCOHOLISM — The individual begins to lose control as to the time, place and amount of his drinking. He gets drunk unintentionally. He hides and protects his liquor supply. He drinks to overcome the hangover from his prior drinking. He tries new patterns of drinking as to time and place of drinking. He attempts cures by moving to new locations or by changing his drinking companions.
- Never really did these things... I'm not one to hide much (except above (brother's house), out of necessity although I have talked to him drunk enough times for him to figure it out...). I don't broadcast it, either...
CHRONIC ALCOHOLISM — The individual becomes a loner in his drinking. He develops alibis, excuses and rationalizations to cover up or explain his drinking. Personality and behavior changes occur that affect all relationships — family, employment, community. Extended binges, physical tremors, hallucinations and delirium, complete rejection of social reality, malnutrition with accompanying illness and disease and early death all occur as chronic alcoholism progresses.
- I became a loner, period. I am what some consider "eccentric". I do not make friends, easily. I don't hate everyone, but it takes a bit of time to become "friends". I don't think alcohol caused that. Life did. Personality & behavior, I think it did get affected. I was a lot more depressed with systematic drinking. I had way more outbursts of anger. All that seems to have just vanished in the last few weeks. I don't think it really affected anyone, though. No one that mattered, anyway... No extended binges (only the regular night-time sessions that never got longer), no tremors or the rest of that stuff, except diabetes.
That's the sole reason I quit.
Anger - Small outbursts (sometimes) about 10 minutes before I went to sleep.
Are you not sure that you should quit drinking or just don't want to call yourself an Alcoholic? If it is the later just tell people, for health reasons, you choose not to drink.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 286
Struggling with the Term "Alcoholic"…
This is what kept me sick for longer than necessary because I just could not grasp being labeled with that term. That happens to a lot of us. Try to get a hold of the book "Beyond the Influence." That book helped me so much with my process (along with many other books). If you are thinking that alcohol is not a disease but a choice, this book will explain the physiology that occurs as the "disease" progresses. Drink does not discriminate. It progresses the same in each of us even though we may have all came to it differently. Thank you for posting on this topic and good luck my friend.
This is what kept me sick for longer than necessary because I just could not grasp being labeled with that term. That happens to a lot of us. Try to get a hold of the book "Beyond the Influence." That book helped me so much with my process (along with many other books). If you are thinking that alcohol is not a disease but a choice, this book will explain the physiology that occurs as the "disease" progresses. Drink does not discriminate. It progresses the same in each of us even though we may have all came to it differently. Thank you for posting on this topic and good luck my friend.
Absolute Evil
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 206
I'm not questioning whether or not I should start back. If the urge overwhelms me, I probably will. So far, it hasn't.
Hopefully, it won't. But in the past, I did go to AA because I always heard that my way of drinking wasn't the accepted way of doing it. My friends and I drank the same way, from day one. There was no graduation from 2-3 beers to liquor.
We drank whatever popped into our heads, over the years.
I guess I just don't like labels.
Hopefully, it won't. But in the past, I did go to AA because I always heard that my way of drinking wasn't the accepted way of doing it. My friends and I drank the same way, from day one. There was no graduation from 2-3 beers to liquor.
We drank whatever popped into our heads, over the years.
I guess I just don't like labels.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Fort Wayne IN
Posts: 284
I heard in a mtg that if you are taking a test to determine if you are an alcoholic then that is a good indicator that you are. It got a good laugh. But, I cannot tell someone they are an alcoholic, only they can say it. I admit I am an alcoholic because I have a problem with drinking alcohol.
Follow Directions!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Fredericksburg, Va.
Posts: 9,730
Oh no I am not a DIABETIC!!!!! I have a glucose control problem!!!! LOL
Well I had to make a decision a couple of years ago, I could remain a DRUNK and die drinking............. or I could be honest with myself and admit I was an alcoholic and stop drinking!
Walking down the street or at work or any where today no one would know I was an alcoholic unless I told them, I have no shame at all at telling some one I am an alcoholic nor admitting it to myself, being able to be honest about my alcoholism allowed me to get and stay sober.
Now 3 years ago when I was not an alcoholic just a good old fashioned drunk walking down the street I know some people knew for a fact I was a DRUNK, but they did not have any idea if I was an alcoholic or not. Folks at my job suspected I was a DRUNK because of how rough I always looked.
I have no more shame about being a recovered alcoholic then a diabetic has shame for having diabetes. I did have a great deal of shame being a DRUNK who could not stop being a DRUNK!
I stayed a DRUNK until I became an alcoholic, this getting honest is what allowed me to become a recovering alcoholic and no longer a DRUNK!
To me being a DRUNK is a label, being an alcoholic is a self acknowledgement of a fact.
The disease or not a disease deal to me is a personal choice.
One can ignore the AMA, the WHO and numerous other medical and scientific orginizations findings and say it is not a disease or they can accept their finding.
There is one fact that holds true no matter ones opinion or not, whether one is an alcoholic or a drunk, if they drink long enough and hard enough alcohol will kill them in numerous ways!
Well I had to make a decision a couple of years ago, I could remain a DRUNK and die drinking............. or I could be honest with myself and admit I was an alcoholic and stop drinking!
Walking down the street or at work or any where today no one would know I was an alcoholic unless I told them, I have no shame at all at telling some one I am an alcoholic nor admitting it to myself, being able to be honest about my alcoholism allowed me to get and stay sober.
Now 3 years ago when I was not an alcoholic just a good old fashioned drunk walking down the street I know some people knew for a fact I was a DRUNK, but they did not have any idea if I was an alcoholic or not. Folks at my job suspected I was a DRUNK because of how rough I always looked.
I have no more shame about being a recovered alcoholic then a diabetic has shame for having diabetes. I did have a great deal of shame being a DRUNK who could not stop being a DRUNK!
I stayed a DRUNK until I became an alcoholic, this getting honest is what allowed me to become a recovering alcoholic and no longer a DRUNK!
To me being a DRUNK is a label, being an alcoholic is a self acknowledgement of a fact.
The disease or not a disease deal to me is a personal choice.
One can ignore the AMA, the WHO and numerous other medical and scientific orginizations findings and say it is not a disease or they can accept their finding.
There is one fact that holds true no matter ones opinion or not, whether one is an alcoholic or a drunk, if they drink long enough and hard enough alcohol will kill them in numerous ways!
To thine own self, be true
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 78
Originally Posted by Emimily
i am an alcoholic because i cannot control my drinking once i start, i cannot predict the outcome of an evening if i am drinking, and very bad things happen when i drink - maybe not EVERY time, but more often than not.
Prior to admitting I had any sort of problem, I was seeing a counselor for depression and he happened to be a nationally renowned addiction specialist. Through our discussions, he learned that I had been raped, robbed and assaulted (all on separate occasions) while drinking, and that my friends had started getting angry with me because I always got drunk when we went out. He said to me, "One of the signs of alcoholism, one that's more important than how much or how often you drink, is whether or not you stop drinking after suffering negative consequences from it. If you don't, then you have a big problem."
Accepting that you're an addict (and to me, an addict is an addict, regardless of their DOC) means learning to reframe what alcoholism and addiction mean.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by TheMaster
I don't believe it's a disease. I believe it's a choice. I chose to drink heavily and now I choose to not drink at all. I don't think of myself as having a disease. I think of myself as having to choose to not drink...
Heavy drinkers can stop when given a good reason (ie. health).
So, no worries about the title alcoholic for you
All these "Are You an Alcoholic" tests have really gotten complicated...I think there's a 44 question one...44!!
AA basic test has 2:
In the preceding chapters you have learned something of alcoholism. We hope we have made clear the distinction between the alcoholic and the nonalcoholic. If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.
__________________________________________________
To clarify the 3 classifications from AA basic text:
Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They can take it or leave it alone.
Then we have a certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason - ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a doctor - becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention.
But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.
Source Quoted...Alcoholics Anonymous
1st Edition
____________________________________
so, no worries about the disease concept or the term alcoholic!
Last edited by CarolD; 01-24-2009 at 09:16 PM. Reason: Added Source following SR Guidelines
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Posts: 773
Not everyone agrees that alcoholism is a disease. I have been treated like absolute garbage by doctors and nurses after my ER visits (due to alcoholism)
IMO alcoholism/drug addiction is still very much stigmatized.
tib
6
IMO alcoholism/drug addiction is still very much stigmatized.
tib
6
Absolute Evil
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by tiburon88
Not everyone agrees that alcoholism is a disease. I have been treated like absolute garbage by doctors and nurses after my ER visits (due to alcoholism)
IMO alcoholism/drug addiction is still very much stigmatized.
tib6
IMO alcoholism/drug addiction is still very much stigmatized.
tib
6
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 679
Leaving out the issue of terms which is complicated, the word alcoholic has been burdened with a lot of stigma over the years. And now that people have decided it is a disease the language needs to catch up. But really however you term it doesn't matter— whatever you are most comfortable with is good as long as you are honest with yourself about the extent of the issue.
I kind of think it is just something that you know. I used to have a roommate who had a huge pot problem. She was a total pothead and I was a total drunk. We would always be trying to limit ourselves on each substance. I had different goals with the alcohol and she with the pot. Because she smoked so much at the house I would often smoke with her. But if she ever was not around I would not smoke. I would not think about it. I would not search it out. If other people were smoking it around me (and where I live it is not that uncommon for it to happen in/around bars) I would ignore it especially when I was drinking. I just didn't care about pot. I never have and will be really surprised if I ever do. But there was a time where I was probably smoking it four times a week or more, not for very long or anything but it was often. And for my roommate the same was with drinking. She would go out and drink a lot. And party hard. We were in our twenties but she could forget about alcohol without trying. But she would move heaven and earth when she ran out of pot. We would always talk about how we wished we could feel like the other about our respective substances. So the point is that it is not necessarily how much you use at a given point in time, although there is definitely an upper limit to that, but the relationship that you have with it. I never would forget about alcohol ever. I could not smoke pot for a year and hardly even remember that I hadn't. In fact I don't think I have smoked it in probably eight months. And that has nothing to do with any effort or anything. Now only if it were so easy with the booze....
I kind of think it is just something that you know. I used to have a roommate who had a huge pot problem. She was a total pothead and I was a total drunk. We would always be trying to limit ourselves on each substance. I had different goals with the alcohol and she with the pot. Because she smoked so much at the house I would often smoke with her. But if she ever was not around I would not smoke. I would not think about it. I would not search it out. If other people were smoking it around me (and where I live it is not that uncommon for it to happen in/around bars) I would ignore it especially when I was drinking. I just didn't care about pot. I never have and will be really surprised if I ever do. But there was a time where I was probably smoking it four times a week or more, not for very long or anything but it was often. And for my roommate the same was with drinking. She would go out and drink a lot. And party hard. We were in our twenties but she could forget about alcohol without trying. But she would move heaven and earth when she ran out of pot. We would always talk about how we wished we could feel like the other about our respective substances. So the point is that it is not necessarily how much you use at a given point in time, although there is definitely an upper limit to that, but the relationship that you have with it. I never would forget about alcohol ever. I could not smoke pot for a year and hardly even remember that I hadn't. In fact I don't think I have smoked it in probably eight months. And that has nothing to do with any effort or anything. Now only if it were so easy with the booze....
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
IMO a disease is something that affects our body so it cannot function normally. Let's take my friend who can go to xmas parties and drink too much and once every couple of months can do the same socially. Let's take me who cannot stop drinking once i have a beverage until i am completely drunk and will drink, then, day after day. The alcohol that i am ingesting each day is preventing my body from working normally obviously as much as any other disease, therefore alcoholism is a disease. Like most diseases it is progressive which means it causes more problems as it gets worse over time.
Like a lot of diseases it cannot be cured but can be treated so it does not get worse with changes to lifestyle and adapting to having the disease which means abstaining from alcohol etc.
The disease is generally worsened by external factors which need to be managed through AA, counselling, group therapy etc.
Like a lot of diseases it cannot be cured but can be treated so it does not get worse with changes to lifestyle and adapting to having the disease which means abstaining from alcohol etc.
The disease is generally worsened by external factors which need to be managed through AA, counselling, group therapy etc.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 70
For me, the "Alcoholic" label comes from 2 criteria in the Big Book of AA, First I have an obsession of the mind where I think about drinking, alcohol, bars, etc. and Second, once I take the first drink I seldom stop. That's enough for me. The day I was able to admit to myself and my HP that I am powerless over alcohol and my life had become unmanageable was the first day of my recovery. I have never had life so good.
As for the debate about calling alcoholism a "disease", just look to Webster's dictionary for the definition: "An impairment of health or a condition of abnormal functioning" That's all. I know that I choose to take the first drink but when I take that first one, most times I do not stop... I cannot stop...
These are just my experiences and opinions that work for me in my recovery. I really don't care what others think, when I surrendered I was able to stop lying to myself and "quit the debate society" and as a result I stopped coming into conflict with everyone and everything around me and I feel great...
As for the debate about calling alcoholism a "disease", just look to Webster's dictionary for the definition: "An impairment of health or a condition of abnormal functioning" That's all. I know that I choose to take the first drink but when I take that first one, most times I do not stop... I cannot stop...
These are just my experiences and opinions that work for me in my recovery. I really don't care what others think, when I surrendered I was able to stop lying to myself and "quit the debate society" and as a result I stopped coming into conflict with everyone and everything around me and I feel great...
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 541
Originally Posted by TheMaster
. I don't believe it's a disease. I believe it's a choice. I
.
.
"Although AA was instrumental in again emphasizing the "disease concept" of alcoholism, the defining work was done by Elvin Jellinek, M.D., of the Yale Center of Alcohol Studies. In his book, The Disease Concept of Alcoholism, published in 1960, Jellinek described alcoholics as individuals with tolerance, withdrawal symptoms, and either "loss of control" or "inability to abstain" from alcohol. He asserted that these individuals could not drink in moderation, and, with continued drinking, the disease was progressive and life-threatening. Jellinek also recognized that some features of the disease (e.g., inability to abstain and loss of control) were shaped by cultural factors.
During the past 35 years, numerous studies by behavioral and social scientists have supported Jellinek’s contentions about alcoholism as a disease. The American Medical Association endorsed the concept in 1957. The American Psychiatric Association, the American Hospital Association, the American Public Health Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the World Health Organization and the American College of Physicians have also classified alcoholism as a disease"
Ok, let's seeeeeeeeee. The AMA, the APA, the AHA,the APHA, the NASW,the WHO, and the ACP all think it's a disease.
Who told you it wasn't? Your bartender?
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