Question about RELAPSE
Karma Amputee
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Among The Living
Posts: 769
I had that "one" cigarette so many times, it's ridiculous, and it always brought me back to full addiction.
But I always craved it like it crazy. So far, with the booze, no cravings. None. I don't know why.
In that conversation with my friend about relapse, we both agreed that we drank and did other drugs "for the buzz" not so much because our bodies craved it, or needed it. I know that's true for me for the most part, even though towards the end it was getting a little more physical, more of an actual need. But always before, it just kinda filled a hole: boredom, the need for a little thrill, to feel good, to get a little euphoria...
Maybe that's why I'm not craving booze.
Yet...
But I always craved it like it crazy. So far, with the booze, no cravings. None. I don't know why.
In that conversation with my friend about relapse, we both agreed that we drank and did other drugs "for the buzz" not so much because our bodies craved it, or needed it. I know that's true for me for the most part, even though towards the end it was getting a little more physical, more of an actual need. But always before, it just kinda filled a hole: boredom, the need for a little thrill, to feel good, to get a little euphoria...
Maybe that's why I'm not craving booze.
Yet...
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: East Coast
Posts: 437
I didn't want to quit. I was sort of forced into it through my family and work. I did drink too much but never said thats it and would drink again. I would stop during the week only to wait until the weekend to drink. My problem became serious because I would drink whenever I wasn't working and because of an illness to me and my husband was alot of days. My husband's illness required me to drive from our summer home on hangover monday which I relieved with drinking on 2 different weeks. I am assuming this would have progressed also so I went for help.
Karma Amputee
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Among The Living
Posts: 769
Except for pot (and that's kinda complicated), I've always wanted to quit (stop doing) every drug I ever got involved in. I could always see the end of the line, even though I was having a grand old time on the train. Well, it wasn't always grand, there were feelings of guilt and consequences, but for some reason, I always knew what the end result would be (bad) and was careful not to go too far. I think for this reason, I was able to see that my drinking lifestyle was becoming a problem that would only get worse, and needed to stop. I mean, I've pretty much done it all, and as a 17 years old kid in 1987, I was pretty much up for any drug. What I wasn't up for was becoming a helpless addict who took it too far. I wanted the buzz without the usual problems. It doesn't make me any better than anyone, it just means I'm lucky to have a good head on my shoulders even though for some reason I was doing every drug I could get my hands on and was drinking up a storm.
My name is alcoholic&Im a Walt
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 48
I really like what everyone has said and the way I say it is the same thing just in different words and being the self centered egotistical alcoholic I am I like mine better lollololol
But just something quick as I'm waiting on the phone call from the towing company---just live in today because when I think about never drinkg again it drives me insane again!
Also who is to say that if I relapse I will make it back to have that self centered credibility in the rooms that I want!
I had a friend in the program who went out after his first 32 days sober got drunk/high and killed himself. I had a friend in the program spent 2 1/2 years sober relapsed spent 6months sober and I haven't seen him since his last relapse. I know a firend who was 8 years sober when out for one last run and ended up in a coffin.
I say all this to say if you can play with your soberity go ahead but I can't because it's life or death for me
It's also my perception of things that I believe people who relapase mean more to the rooms BS---the more I stay sober my first time the more I give hope to someone else who is in the rooms for their first time.
Thanks and good luck because I question my soberity all the time like that if you don't have a sponsor find a meeting and get one they are great people to talk to about things like this!
But just something quick as I'm waiting on the phone call from the towing company---just live in today because when I think about never drinkg again it drives me insane again!
Also who is to say that if I relapse I will make it back to have that self centered credibility in the rooms that I want!
I had a friend in the program who went out after his first 32 days sober got drunk/high and killed himself. I had a friend in the program spent 2 1/2 years sober relapsed spent 6months sober and I haven't seen him since his last relapse. I know a firend who was 8 years sober when out for one last run and ended up in a coffin.
I say all this to say if you can play with your soberity go ahead but I can't because it's life or death for me
It's also my perception of things that I believe people who relapase mean more to the rooms BS---the more I stay sober my first time the more I give hope to someone else who is in the rooms for their first time.
Thanks and good luck because I question my soberity all the time like that if you don't have a sponsor find a meeting and get one they are great people to talk to about things like this!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: north yorkshire, england
Posts: 1,891
Im one of those alcoholics who has relapsed many times.
The first time i tried seriously to give up alcohol i made it to 18 months, it wasnt easy as i was still pretty miserable, then one day i got a bad case of the f**k its and had a drink which turned into a massive binge that had me fearing for my life.
After this binge i quit again and after the first few nightmare days it wasnt too hard, i told myself i needed the reminder.
However after that, whenever i got stressed etc i went on another binge knowing i could get clean again after only a couple of days suffering.
That first relapse was me crossing the line and once you've done that the line pretty much disappears, its like drinking in the morning once youve done it once you dont struggle so much with repeating.
Ive finally got back to a place where i have got my reason back, no more relapses for me, but its taken over two years and before i quit this time i was as bad as i have ever been.
If you can at all help it dont give yourself permission for even a small slip as you really dont know where its going to lead, congratulations on your sober time and believe me you dont want the kind of attention a relapse brings.
Take care. X
The first time i tried seriously to give up alcohol i made it to 18 months, it wasnt easy as i was still pretty miserable, then one day i got a bad case of the f**k its and had a drink which turned into a massive binge that had me fearing for my life.
After this binge i quit again and after the first few nightmare days it wasnt too hard, i told myself i needed the reminder.
However after that, whenever i got stressed etc i went on another binge knowing i could get clean again after only a couple of days suffering.
That first relapse was me crossing the line and once you've done that the line pretty much disappears, its like drinking in the morning once youve done it once you dont struggle so much with repeating.
Ive finally got back to a place where i have got my reason back, no more relapses for me, but its taken over two years and before i quit this time i was as bad as i have ever been.
If you can at all help it dont give yourself permission for even a small slip as you really dont know where its going to lead, congratulations on your sober time and believe me you dont want the kind of attention a relapse brings.
Take care. X
Silly Rabbit
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 956
Originally Posted by sugErspun 
Has anyone here just decided to quit and had it stick the first time? I know there is this variable of "serious" vs "not so serious", but I think everyone has had the experience of drinking again when they swore they never wanted to again.
My two cents - I always have the possibility of relapse, if I don't put AA first and do my very best to try and practice the principles I've learned in all of my affairs. I don't always have the possibility of another recovery - death is around the corner for every alcoholic and addict that picks up again...
BUT! That's the beautiful thing about it being MY opinion... my experience, strength, and hope rings true for some and not for others and that's why there's more than just two of us.
Good luck on your journey... it's the best adventure I've ever been on, and even on the really bad days it's not that bad.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,126
1) "The idea that relapse is a part of recovery is a myth that has been sold to us by people that claim to be our friends. In fact it is plain ********.
Because of the nature of alcoholism, relapse will occur. But it isn't a part of recovery. But you need to know that you don't ever have to drink alcohol again in your life. Ever. Period.
The best way to avoid it is to give up the battle. You can't walk around on gaurd twenty-four/seven avoiding your next relapse. In fact, the idea of "relapse prevention" is something that has been sold to us as well.
I don't avoid it anymore. I am also not tempted. I don't fight drinking and I don't fight not drinking. The problem has been removed."
2) "...The idea of one day at a time is not about not drinking one day at a time. That is just one more myth that is spread in the fellowship. It is about giving up liquor entirely for good and for all and living one day at a time..."
3) "...If alcoholism has a partial definition of "not being able to quit when one wants to quit"..then relapse is something we all share... I don't know any alcoholics who just said "I am not going to drink anymore" and stuck to it the rest of their lives...going from abusive drinking patterns that affected the quality of life to straight abstinence. Part of this illness is that you want to quit, but can't seem to pull it off... I know plenty of people who have not had a drink since the day they came to AA...but there were many fruitless attempts prior to that.
Has anyone here just decided to quit and had it stick the first time?...I think everyone has had the experience of drinking again when they swore they never wanted to again..."
As to ----
1) I prefer to think about it as...Because of the nature of alcoholism, relapse MAY occur. As for the rest of the post.....AMEN, buddy..... (o:
2) Yup, yup, yup; that’s exactly what I did.....gave up liquor (and drugs) entirely for good and all. Unfortunately, when I said this to some of my AA friends, they automatically jumped on me and told me to never say never, and that with my way of thinking I was just a relapse waiting to happen. I didn’t think I’d used the term ‘never’ but then I can see the phrase ‘for good and all’ as being somewhat the same as ‘never’ and so far it has worked for me.....for good and all, living one day at a time since June 23, 1986.
3) I prefer to look at it as.....: Yes, a partial definition of alcoholism could be "not being able to quit when one wants to quit"..then relapse is a possibility we all share. However, I don’t believe this partial definition is an absolute; if it were then no alcoholic would ever quit and get sober and recover. I believe this is something the founders of AA grappled with, and I believe they came to the thinking, and I also believe this to be true, that an alcoholic could quit if they changed their life.....had some kind of program to help them, and didn’t just quit and white-knuckle the rest of their life.
Now the tough one....before I went to AA to quit ‘for good and all,’ there had been times in my past when I quit for brief periods of time. These times were all planned, and they all had specific time frames, and, even though I always returned to drinking (these time frames always included returning to drinking), they were ALL successful (ie: I would say I was going to quit for 2-3 weeks due to some medication/treatment I needed, and I didn’t drink for those 2-3 weeks; I would say that I wasn’t going to drink for ‘x’ amount of time, and I didn’t.....etc., even including quitting for about 6 months at one time). Now, before someone jumps in and tells me that means I wasn’t a ‘real alcoholic,’ perhaps I wasn’t at those times. However, at the end (of my drinking career) --- definitely a real alcoholic! I made the decision to quit, for good and all (forever, to never p/u again), and I picked myself up and took myself to AA. This was the FIRST, and ONLY, time that I said words to the effect.....: "I am not going to drink anymore" ... I swore I never wanted to again (and I haven’t) ...and so far (it has stuck) I have stuck to it for the rest of my life (at least to this point in the rest of my life).
Now, some folks may see my previous stints of abstinence as many fruitless attempts prior to finally quitting (for good and all/forever/to never p/u again), however I do not since I had never in the past tried to quit for good and all/forever/to never p/u again (only for pre-planned specified times).
As for the original questions....: “...So, what the story on relapse? If a person spends their whole life boozing it up and then quits one day and never looks back and never has a relapse, was that person ever really an alcoholic to begin with?...” --- I don’t believe we can diagnose others, only ourselves. “...Is relapse unavoidable and is it really necessary to go through in the course of a true recovery?...” --- I’m one of those who believes that relapse is a part of the disease and NOT a part of recovery....and it is definitely NOT necessary (to go through) in the course of true recovery. I have never had a relapse since getting clean/sober in 1986, and most of my friends (all with at least 20 years recovery) have never had relapses either. They’re definitely NOT a prerequisite for a happy, joyous, and free life. “...What is the best way to avoid it?...” --- For me, I found that I didn’t even think about relapses. They weren’t part of recovery; they weren’t part of the Program; they were just a non-issue for me. I’m a believer in....: resist NOT; what you resist, persists; and whatever you resist, you make that ‘thing’ stronger. Therefore I just didn’t think about relapse (and still don’t....‘cept mebbe here on this thread.....lolol).
Whoa.....thas a whole lotta stuff you said there, Noelle. I hope I haven't bored anyone (or put anyone to sleep). I always figure that the only person who 'needs' to read what I write is ME (and I've read all this, so now it's time for my nap....lol).
See y'all trudgin' along.......... (o:
NoelleR
Because of the nature of alcoholism, relapse will occur. But it isn't a part of recovery. But you need to know that you don't ever have to drink alcohol again in your life. Ever. Period.
The best way to avoid it is to give up the battle. You can't walk around on gaurd twenty-four/seven avoiding your next relapse. In fact, the idea of "relapse prevention" is something that has been sold to us as well.
I don't avoid it anymore. I am also not tempted. I don't fight drinking and I don't fight not drinking. The problem has been removed."
2) "...The idea of one day at a time is not about not drinking one day at a time. That is just one more myth that is spread in the fellowship. It is about giving up liquor entirely for good and for all and living one day at a time..."
3) "...If alcoholism has a partial definition of "not being able to quit when one wants to quit"..then relapse is something we all share... I don't know any alcoholics who just said "I am not going to drink anymore" and stuck to it the rest of their lives...going from abusive drinking patterns that affected the quality of life to straight abstinence. Part of this illness is that you want to quit, but can't seem to pull it off... I know plenty of people who have not had a drink since the day they came to AA...but there were many fruitless attempts prior to that.
Has anyone here just decided to quit and had it stick the first time?...I think everyone has had the experience of drinking again when they swore they never wanted to again..."
As to ----
1) I prefer to think about it as...Because of the nature of alcoholism, relapse MAY occur. As for the rest of the post.....AMEN, buddy..... (o:
2) Yup, yup, yup; that’s exactly what I did.....gave up liquor (and drugs) entirely for good and all. Unfortunately, when I said this to some of my AA friends, they automatically jumped on me and told me to never say never, and that with my way of thinking I was just a relapse waiting to happen. I didn’t think I’d used the term ‘never’ but then I can see the phrase ‘for good and all’ as being somewhat the same as ‘never’ and so far it has worked for me.....for good and all, living one day at a time since June 23, 1986.
3) I prefer to look at it as.....: Yes, a partial definition of alcoholism could be "not being able to quit when one wants to quit"..then relapse is a possibility we all share. However, I don’t believe this partial definition is an absolute; if it were then no alcoholic would ever quit and get sober and recover. I believe this is something the founders of AA grappled with, and I believe they came to the thinking, and I also believe this to be true, that an alcoholic could quit if they changed their life.....had some kind of program to help them, and didn’t just quit and white-knuckle the rest of their life.
Now the tough one....before I went to AA to quit ‘for good and all,’ there had been times in my past when I quit for brief periods of time. These times were all planned, and they all had specific time frames, and, even though I always returned to drinking (these time frames always included returning to drinking), they were ALL successful (ie: I would say I was going to quit for 2-3 weeks due to some medication/treatment I needed, and I didn’t drink for those 2-3 weeks; I would say that I wasn’t going to drink for ‘x’ amount of time, and I didn’t.....etc., even including quitting for about 6 months at one time). Now, before someone jumps in and tells me that means I wasn’t a ‘real alcoholic,’ perhaps I wasn’t at those times. However, at the end (of my drinking career) --- definitely a real alcoholic! I made the decision to quit, for good and all (forever, to never p/u again), and I picked myself up and took myself to AA. This was the FIRST, and ONLY, time that I said words to the effect.....: "I am not going to drink anymore" ... I swore I never wanted to again (and I haven’t) ...and so far (it has stuck) I have stuck to it for the rest of my life (at least to this point in the rest of my life).
Now, some folks may see my previous stints of abstinence as many fruitless attempts prior to finally quitting (for good and all/forever/to never p/u again), however I do not since I had never in the past tried to quit for good and all/forever/to never p/u again (only for pre-planned specified times).
As for the original questions....: “...So, what the story on relapse? If a person spends their whole life boozing it up and then quits one day and never looks back and never has a relapse, was that person ever really an alcoholic to begin with?...” --- I don’t believe we can diagnose others, only ourselves. “...Is relapse unavoidable and is it really necessary to go through in the course of a true recovery?...” --- I’m one of those who believes that relapse is a part of the disease and NOT a part of recovery....and it is definitely NOT necessary (to go through) in the course of true recovery. I have never had a relapse since getting clean/sober in 1986, and most of my friends (all with at least 20 years recovery) have never had relapses either. They’re definitely NOT a prerequisite for a happy, joyous, and free life. “...What is the best way to avoid it?...” --- For me, I found that I didn’t even think about relapses. They weren’t part of recovery; they weren’t part of the Program; they were just a non-issue for me. I’m a believer in....: resist NOT; what you resist, persists; and whatever you resist, you make that ‘thing’ stronger. Therefore I just didn’t think about relapse (and still don’t....‘cept mebbe here on this thread.....lolol).
Whoa.....thas a whole lotta stuff you said there, Noelle. I hope I haven't bored anyone (or put anyone to sleep). I always figure that the only person who 'needs' to read what I write is ME (and I've read all this, so now it's time for my nap....lol).
See y'all trudgin' along.......... (o:
NoelleR
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
As others have said relapse doesn't have to be part of the recovery process but it does happen. The important thing is that you don't use relapse as an excuse to give up hope. I don't really buy into the whole bottom thing as many of us have hit many bottoms and each time we think it is the last. The truth is that a bottom is no guarantee that we will never drink again and a relapse is not the end of the world, it does happen.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,697
Originally Posted by Emimily
Sug, is this question about AA or just quitting? When I walked into my first AA meeting, I knew that the facade was gone - I have not had to drink since that day. Now, that's not the same as when I had my head in a toilet groaning "I'm never gonna drink again... blaarrrhhh..." Just a bit confused.
My two cents - I always have the possibility of relapse, if I don't put AA first and do my very best to try and practice the principles I've learned in all of my affairs. I don't always have the possibility of another recovery - death is around the corner for every alcoholic and addict that picks up again...
BUT! That's the beautiful thing about it being MY opinion... my experience, strength, and hope rings true for some and not for others and that's why there's more than just two of us.
Good luck on your journey... it's the best adventure I've ever been on, and even on the really bad days it's not that bad.
My two cents - I always have the possibility of relapse, if I don't put AA first and do my very best to try and practice the principles I've learned in all of my affairs. I don't always have the possibility of another recovery - death is around the corner for every alcoholic and addict that picks up again...
BUT! That's the beautiful thing about it being MY opinion... my experience, strength, and hope rings true for some and not for others and that's why there's more than just two of us.
Good luck on your journey... it's the best adventure I've ever been on, and even on the really bad days it's not that bad.
It was not specific to AA. The point I was trying to make was that if one could just say "alcohol is a problem so I am gonna quit" - they would. In my personal experience and the alcoholics I know, it took some work to get and stay sober.
My sponsor has not touched a drink since he went to his first AA meeting in 1988 - but what did it take for him to walk in those doors? A bad hangover? Some stupid behavior in a blackout? Alcohol had to be a problem...and relapse is any time someone decides to not drink again - but does it anyway (days, weeks, months, years later).
My experience - I decided in February 1994 that I didn't want to smoke pot again. I have not smoked pot since..I can be around it, I can smell it - I don't have a support group, a program..I didn't seek therapy nor take any medication to help. I didn't want to smoke it anymore - and I haven't smoked any since (almost 15 years!). Never once before I decided to quit did it ever cross my mind to do so.
My post was more along the lines of "I will never do THAT again!" - and doing it again (your "blaaarhh" was particularly descriptive Em
).
My name is alcoholic&Im a Walt
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by sugErspun
It was not specific to AA. The point I was trying to make was that if one could just say "alcohol is a problem so I am gonna quit" - they would. In my personal experience and the alcoholics I know, it took some work to get and stay sober.
My sponsor has not touched a drink since he went to his first AA meeting in 1988 - but what did it take for him to walk in those doors? A bad hangover? Some stupid behavior in a blackout? Alcohol had to be a problem...and relapse is any time someone decides to not drink again - but does it anyway (days, weeks, months, years later).
My experience - I decided in February 1994 that I didn't want to smoke pot again. I have not smoked pot since..I can be around it, I can smell it - I don't have a support group, a program..I didn't seek therapy nor take any medication to help. I didn't want to smoke it anymore - and I haven't smoked any since (almost 15 years!). Never once before I decided to quit did it ever cross my mind to do so.
My post was more along the lines of "I will never do THAT again!" - and doing it again (your "blaaarhh" was particularly descriptive Em ).
My sponsor has not touched a drink since he went to his first AA meeting in 1988 - but what did it take for him to walk in those doors? A bad hangover? Some stupid behavior in a blackout? Alcohol had to be a problem...and relapse is any time someone decides to not drink again - but does it anyway (days, weeks, months, years later).
My experience - I decided in February 1994 that I didn't want to smoke pot again. I have not smoked pot since..I can be around it, I can smell it - I don't have a support group, a program..I didn't seek therapy nor take any medication to help. I didn't want to smoke it anymore - and I haven't smoked any since (almost 15 years!). Never once before I decided to quit did it ever cross my mind to do so.
My post was more along the lines of "I will never do THAT again!" - and doing it again (your "blaaarhh" was particularly descriptive Em
).Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,876
Great replies...I think relapse is very subjective and can mean different things to different people. For many years I drank...I quit...I drank....I quit...but I don't believe, if I am honest with myself, that I accepted that I would never drink again....until I did.
I have not had a "relapse" since I made the decision that I, like Noelle, was done for good and all. If I were to drink now It would be a clear cut decision to drink...a absolute choice to return to the bottle.
I mentioned in another post recently that "relapsing" every couple of days/weeks is IMO drinking...albeit more controlled but drinking all the same. I think the word relapse would not apply in such cases, but hey thats just my 2 cents.
I have not had a "relapse" since I made the decision that I, like Noelle, was done for good and all. If I were to drink now It would be a clear cut decision to drink...a absolute choice to return to the bottle.
I mentioned in another post recently that "relapsing" every couple of days/weeks is IMO drinking...albeit more controlled but drinking all the same. I think the word relapse would not apply in such cases, but hey thats just my 2 cents.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 469
Wow Walt, big time wake up call. I hear from people in AA talk about people with Years and Years of sobriety, going back out and how many funerals they have gone to. The biggest part of staying sober I think is the realization that I can't ever take that first drink...I have been given a second chance and am grabbing ahold of that with all I have. I have to remind myself of where I was not too long ago and how it felt. Death was creeping up on me, I could feel it. I am grateful for what I have been given...a chance at life
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 700
Relapse happens way before we stick alcohol or drugs in our bodies. It happens in our thinking. We start living in the problem rather than the solution.
Recovery for me .. means living in the solution. So if I do that.. I do not Relapse.
Relapse is not a part of recovery.
Recovery for me .. means living in the solution. So if I do that.. I do not Relapse.
Relapse is not a part of recovery.
Silly Rabbit
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 956
Heck yes, AW!
"Relapse happens way before we stick alcohol or drugs in our bodies. It happens in our thinking. We start living in the problem rather than the solution.
Recovery for me .. means living in the solution. So if I do that.. I do not Relapse."
Exackery what I was thinking too.
"Relapse happens way before we stick alcohol or drugs in our bodies. It happens in our thinking. We start living in the problem rather than the solution.
Recovery for me .. means living in the solution. So if I do that.. I do not Relapse."
Exackery what I was thinking too.
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 773
Relapse is not a requirement but it sure is a reality. My theory is that SOME people who quit on their first attempt aren't even really alcoholic to begin with. They are, in fact, just "heavy drinkers".
tib
tib
Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 565
Relapse is my middle name, but I think it's only because I didn't really want to stop until my current sobriety.
I live my life in constant fear of relapse however, and it does affect a ton of my decisions. I have to hit that year mark. I think that would be a giant mental hurdle to overcome.
AA and this message board have helped me immensely. Whenever I'm scared to death I can always come here and just read until the anxiety goes away.
I live my life in constant fear of relapse however, and it does affect a ton of my decisions. I have to hit that year mark. I think that would be a giant mental hurdle to overcome.
AA and this message board have helped me immensely. Whenever I'm scared to death I can always come here and just read until the anxiety goes away.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 71
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for this thread
I often feel like I am waiting around for a relapse. I also think that maybe because, so far, my 24 days of sobriety has been fairly easy that maybe I never had a problem to begin with. I know that this is false and given enough time that thought alone could destroy my sobriety. I really have nothing else to say other then that.
I often feel like I am waiting around for a relapse. I also think that maybe because, so far, my 24 days of sobriety has been fairly easy that maybe I never had a problem to begin with. I know that this is false and given enough time that thought alone could destroy my sobriety. I really have nothing else to say other then that.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by tiburon88
Relapse is not a requirement but it sure is a reality. My theory is that SOME people who quit on their first attempt aren't even really alcoholic to begin with. They are, in fact, just "heavy drinkers".
tib
tib
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
